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So who's going to see the Pope?

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Comments

  • #1472
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    markodaly wrote:
    So, again, no room for the hows and why?


    I'll break it down for you , what how's and why's are you wondering about when it comes to child rape? It certainly seems to me you are an apologist for child rape and abuse.


  • #1473
    jacksie66
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,988 ✭✭✭jacksie66


    This post has been deleted.


  • #1474
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 13,922 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    Never have supported SF but what has politics got to do with the visit of Frank?

    Oh, yes you have, your posts on the politics forum is a give away my friend.
    You also defended a SF MLA making those comments about Kingsmill.
    So stop being a hypocrite.


  • #1475
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    markodaly wrote:
    Oh, yes you have, your posts on the politics forum is a give away my friend. You also defended a SF MLA making those comments about Kingsmill. So stop being a hypocrite.
    I can honestly say I haven't. I see the game you are playing though. By all means address my comments but I suggest you stop playing the man. It's unbecoming.


  • #1476
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 13,922 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    I'll break it down for you , what how's and why's are you wondering about when it comes to child rape? It certainly seems to me you are an apologist for child rape and abuse.

    I guess the world would seem very simple to you given the level of critical thinking your posts have displayed and exhibited.

    You do know that the Irish state outsourced both education and social provisions to the church? How about that factoid, or is that too complicated for you to process and reflect on?


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  • #1477
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    markodaly wrote:
    You do know that the Irish state outsourced both education and social provisions to the church? How about that factoid, or is that too complicated for you to process and reflect on?


    Did the state also give carte blanche for the rape and abuse of children. Is that also a factoid?


  • #1478
    AtomicHorror
    Registered Users Posts: 5,888 ✭✭✭AtomicHorror


    markodaly wrote: »
    I guess the world would seem very simple to you given the level of critical thinking your posts have displayed and exhibited.

    You do know that the Irish state outsourced both education and social provisions to the church? How about that factoid, or is that too complicated for you to process and reflect on?

    Whatabout whataboutism?


  • #1479
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    It's funny watching some here twist themselves into knots trying to justify their support for an organisation that engaged in such horrific abuse of children and also women. Sterling work guys every bit as vile as the organisation you support.


  • #1480
    Taytoland
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭Taytoland


    jacksie66 wrote: »
    I think what's annoying me most about this visit is the fact that it's costing us €32 million. Scandalous.

     More Fool on you.


  • #1481
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 13,922 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    Did the state also give carte blanche for the rape and abuse of children. Is that also a factoid?

    No.

    Did you know in 2013, 23 children in the care of the State and HSE died?
    http://www.thejournal.ie/children-hse-care-1175733-Nov2013/

    12 children in the care of the HSE died in 2012.
    http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/Publications/services/Children/nrp/nrpannrpt11.pdf

    Did the state give carte blanche for this to happen?
    No.

    Has anyone been held responsible for the deaths of 35 children between the year 2012-2013?
    Nope!

    Why did this occur? How was it allowed?


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  • #1482
    AtomicHorror
    Registered Users Posts: 5,888 ✭✭✭AtomicHorror


    markodaly wrote: »
    No.

    Did you know in 2013, 23 children in the care of the State and HSE died?
    http://www.thejournal.ie/children-hse-care-1175733-Nov2013/

    12 children in the care of the HSE died in 2012.
    http://www.hse.ie/eng/services/Publications/services/Children/nrp/nrpannrpt11.pdf

    Did the state give carte blanche for this to happen?
    No.

    Has anyone been held responsible for the deaths of 35 children between the year 2012-2013?
    Nope!

    Why did this occur? How was it allowed?

    Please let us help you with this.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism


  • #1483
    road_high
    Registered Users Posts: 19,383 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    He’s coming into land soon...


  • #1484
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    markodaly wrote: »
    What are the actual issues here?

    I don't think you are here to engage in an actual conversation here, you just want to spout half-truths and lies in order to feel good about yourself.

    They're right there in my two posts, but you'll just keep talking around things to Bury posts that don't suit.

    If the church cared about the poor should it not liquidate much of it's wealth to help them?

    Or is its own state with hoarded gold and trinkets necessary?

    What lies and half truths?


  • #1485
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    markodaly wrote:
    Did you know in 2013, 23 children in the care of the State and HSE died?

    markodaly wrote:
    12 children in the care of the HSE died in 2012.

    markodaly wrote:
    Did the state give carte blanche for this to happen? No.

    markodaly wrote:
    Has anyone been held responsible for the deaths of 35 children between the year 2012-2013? Nope!

    markodaly wrote:
    Why did this occur? How was it allowed?


    Any of the above crimes?


  • #1486
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 13,922 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    AtomicHorror wrote: »
    Please let us help you with this.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

    Ah I get it.

    We are allowed to criticise the church for their abuse of children, which is legitimate mind you.

    Yet, we are not allowed to draw any parallels or correlation to similar happening today via state agencies?

    Right so.

    My, point here is that we can have a grown-up conversation of the church and its history of abuse here in Ireland, and the whys and hows of this.

    Or we can have the 2018 ladybird version, which as some posters state leaves no room for any analysis or reflection, just reactionary a ladybird/Disney version of history.


  • #1487
    buckwheat
    Registered Users Posts: 344 ✭✭buckwheat


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    It's funny watching some here twist themselves into knots trying to justify their support for an organisation that engaged in such horrific abuse of children and also women. Sterling work guys every bit as vile as the organisation you support.

    They're like North Koreans and their Dear Leader :rolleyes:


  • #1488
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 13,922 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    Any of the above crimes?

    Seeing that some of the children were murdered I imagine yes!


  • #1489
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    markodaly wrote: »
    Ah I get it.

    We are allowed to criticise the church for their abuse of children, which is legitimate mind you.
    .

    In a thread about the leader of said church.

    Dragging up things to do with the state is an attempt to deflect.

    Start a thread about the people dieing in state care of you actually care about it. Otherwise it just remains what it is here, deflection.


  • #1490
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    markodaly wrote:
    We are allowed to criticise the church for their abuse of children, which is legitimate mind you.
    Thread is about the church.
    markodaly wrote:
    Yet, we are not allowed to draw any parallels or correlation to similar happening today via state agencies?

    Start another thread so, what you are doing is tbh whataboutery.
    markodaly wrote:
    My, point here is that we can have a grown-up conversation of the church and its history of abuse here in Ireland, and the whys and hows of this.
    Yet you make personal attacks on anyone who highlights the behaviour of the church ..
    markodaly wrote:
    Or we can have the 2018 ladybird version, which as some posters state leaves no room for any analysis or reflection, just reactionary a ladybird/Disney version of history.

    This is perhaps the most ridiculous nonsense I have seen heretofore on this thread.


  • #1491
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    markodaly wrote:
    Seeing that some of the children were murdered I imagine yes!


    So people were held accountable since you say they were murders. Yet the church has consistently refused to open its files about abuse to the state. They moved abusers around without care for future viticms . Victims were worn to secrecy to protect the church . You however seem ok with all this, why?


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  • #1492
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    Absolutely - I never really lost my faith but I see this as a chance for reconciliation and recovery. A chance for the Pope to do the right thing by the abuse survivors and let them see those responsible for their suffering dealt with properly.

    I fear he wont do anything of the sorts bar a few soundbites. For the sake of ordinary decent Catholics I hope he does more but I just cant see it happening.


  • #1493
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    Never have supported SF but what has politics got to do with the visit of Frank?

    Heres one for you. For years the IRA and SF purported to be freedom fighters. Where were they when all the abuse was going on?


  • #1494
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    This was on the front page of reddit last night. I'm not a fan of tarring all Catholics or even members of the clergy with the same brush, but it is a stark reminder and a very harrowing recollection of what went on in this country, and what is still going on in a lot of the Catholic church today, with the Chilean victims being labelled liars only very recently, north of 1,000 and likely thousands more in the recent report from US, and what we continue to see in many reaches of the globe.



    These are not things that should be ignored or treated with the hostility that we have seen from some, including people in this thread who then turn around and claim to be deeply concerned about child abuse within religious orders and the adherents thereof.

    It should not stop the Pope from being able to come here this weekend, but it is a very real issue that has gone on in the Catholic Church for decades, likely even centuries, and which continues to go on to this very day.

    For me though, the sheer amount of time and money put into this is a serious waste of resources, and covering up of the memorial and telling the homeless to make themselves scarce both carry a frankly disgusting level of irony with them that should not be forgotten easily.


  • #1495
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    P_1 wrote:
    Heres one for you. For years the IRA and SF purported to be freedom fighters. Where were they when all the abuse was going on?


    Here's one for you, why are you asking me and what has it got to do with the thread topic?


  • #1496
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 13,922 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    They're right there in my two posts, but you'll just keep talking around things to Bury posts that don't suit.

    If the church cared about the poor should it not liquidate much of it's wealth to help them?

    Or is its own state with hoarded gold and trinkets necessary?

    What lies and half truths?

    Well, the Catholic Church is the biggest charity in the world.
    It operates more than 140,000 schools, 10,000 orphanages, 5,000 hospitals and some 16,000 other health clinics.
    The Catholic Church spend $4.2 Billion in the US alone on social services and is reported to provide 1/4 of all social services in the US alone.

    So, what would they sell? Should they sell the Sistine Chapel with Michaelangelo's famous painted ceiling, or other priceless pieces of artwork? Should some corporation buy it and put a Starbucks in there?

    Even so, the church actually does sell its possession. For example, a Harly Davidson was gifted to the Pope, which was never used. It was auctioned off for over $350,000 and the proceeds when to refurbish a soup kitchen and homeless shelter.

    Finally, of course, do you believe in the notion that it's better to teach a man to fish, rather give him a fish. If they sold off every piece of land and possession to the highest bidder, would this have a better or worse outcome for the tens of thousands of charities, hospitals, schools, and clinics it operates all around the world? Probably not?

    So, do you actually want to have a grown-up conversation or are you just here to rant like a millennial?


  • #1497
    ricero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,348 ✭✭✭✭ricero


    The plane has landed. Now let the liberal and atheist tears flow.


  • #1498
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    ricero wrote: »
    The plane has landed. Now let the liberal and atheist tears flow.

    "Liberal tears" like the life-long Fianna Fail man in the video above who endured a lifetime of trauma from the raping and beatings he received at the hands of trusted priests, causing him to attempt to take his own life, only to be labelled a liar that was 'in it for the money' when he attempted to bring the truth to light? Why do you seem so delighted about this?


  • #1499
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 13,922 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    In a thread about the leader of said church.

    Dragging up things to do with the state is an attempt to deflect.

    Start a thread about the people dieing in state care of you actually care about it. Otherwise it just remains what it is here, deflection.

    So the state is not at all culpable for its history of outsourcing education and social provisions to the church. I don't think we had groups of priests and nuns roaming the country kidnapping would be vulnerable children in secret.

    However, not surprised that I am being shooed away from that nasty inconvenient truth.


  • #1500
    markodaly
    Registered Users Posts: 13,922 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Hitman3000 wrote: »
    So people were held accountable since you say they were murders.

    Was anyone from the HSE held accountable for the deaths of 35 children in 2012-2013? No.


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  • #1501
    Hitman3000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    Billy86 wrote:
    "Liberal tears" like the life-long Fianna Fail man in the video above who endured a lifetime of trauma from the raping and beatings he received at the hands of trusted priests, causing him to attempt to take his own life, only to be labelled a liar that was 'in it for the money' when he attempted to bring the truth to light? Why do you seem so delighted about this?


    Attacking a victims send to be ok if it's in defense of the church. Fairly twisted moral code these people have. Even on these threads the abuse and personal attacks are coming from supporters of Frank and the lads.


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