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New Defender - yah or nah?

  • 16-09-2019 9:24pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,423 ✭✭✭pburns


    Surprised in a way no thread on this already.

    In two minds, honestly think it will be overpriced & a pure fashion icon. Despite it's capabilities most owners will be urban poseurs. A Lancruiser or Hi-lux is probably the spiritual successor to the original Defender (in many ways the Toyota legend has far surpassed Land Rover). Even the Discovery Sport is probably a less pretentious alternative.

    However..another side of me really likes it, especially the 90. Maybe when they release the commercial versions it'll really earn it's stripes.

    (BTW I have an old 4x4 Nissan pickup hack myself. It's a giant wheelbarrow & has even pulled an old chain-harrow recently for small bit of re-seeding.)


«13

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,645 ✭✭✭krissovo


    Big thumbs up from me!

    It’s modern and retro at the same time, but I would need to see one in the flesh and check out the mechanicals. Hopefully it would stick to the old recipe of simple and rugged mechanics with a galvanized shell.

    There is a Toyota FJ Cruiser vibe going on which I grew very fond of when I lived in the States.


  • Registered Users Posts: 80,798 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn


    Yes can see Toyota FJ Cruiser in it.

    They should make a more basic rugged version with not as much technology in it, can't see it taking the abuse of the old Defenders.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,662 ✭✭✭Voodoomelon


    I like it a lot and I don't usually like Jeeps.

    As above, I reckon it will be a lot more fragile than the original.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,789 ✭✭✭Jude13


    After years spending a fortune on the electrics and air suspension on land rovers I gave up. They were some machines when they worked but you were always waiting for the next warning light and spending your holiday fund on the next fault which the LR mechanics usually took months to diagnose the real problem.

    I have had two toyota's in the past five years, the landcruiser's little sister (the Colorado/150 series) and the full blown land cruiser (amazon) which blow the LR out of the water for reliability and cost.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,884 ✭✭✭DuckSlice


    Its a yah-nah from me. Looks good from some angles and not so good from others. I imagine it would look good in full off-road spec.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,641 ✭✭✭zilog_jones


    I don't get where it's supposed to fit in the Land Rover range now - the previous Defender was purely utilitarian, and now it's not. So besides the SWB version, what makes this different from say, a Discovery?


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko




  • Registered Users Posts: 13,574 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Jude13 wrote: »
    After years spending a fortune on the electrics and air suspension on land rovers I gave up. They were some machines when they worked but you were always waiting for the next warning light and spending your holiday fund on the next fault which the LR mechanics usually took months to diagnose the real problem.

    I have had two toyota's in the past five years, the landcruiser's little sister (the Colorado/150 series) and the full blown land cruiser (amazon) which blow the LR out of the water for reliability and cost.


    Yep, if you want to go into the bush...


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,789 ✭✭✭Jude13


    Mainly used commuting and bringing the family around. I do use it camping/off roading. On road the Toyota is a beaut, though the engine on the LR 3 I had was the v8 with was lovely, when there were no warning lights.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,789 ✭✭✭Jude13


    Damn it, after watching that video its really growing on me


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,672 ✭✭✭✭R.O.R


    I like, but it's a big departure from the old Discovery and I'm also not sure where it's going to fit.

    Already had interest in it, so got some timelines.
    First models appearing in showrooms March 2020 and they will all be 240ps S model 110's
    200ps models available from June 2020
    Defender 90 will be available later in 2020. Commercial 90 will be late 2020, possibly 2021.

    No pricing yet, but not going to be cheap. I doubt it will hold it's value like the outgoing model either.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,171 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    A defender with a PRNDL box is all sorts of wrong


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,670 ✭✭✭Bluefoam


    This thing is nothing like an FJ Cruiser. I've owned one & it's like driving an incredibly capable offroad van, I've also owned & customised a Jeep Wrangler... When you bust the bumper, you replace it with a metal one. When the suspension blows, you swap it out for a raised aftermarket variation. You drive it over and through things...

    The New Defender has air sispension... Never ever take it off road. One day it will blow and cost you thousands to fix. This thing doesn't have a ladder chassis, it has a tub, derived from the Range Rover, with an extra gusset occassionally... DO NOT USE OFFROAD... you have any kind of ding and you're fooked. It doesn't have a hose down interior. Bumpers are colour matched (lol) not on an offroad vehicle. This is a pretentious soccer mom car, overpriced and less than useful. Is it ca[pable of being driven on a gravel track, yes, can it get through deep puddles, yes, can it manage some offroading, sure... should you do any of those things? no, never, neh!

    I did a track day in Dubai with Jaguar & part of it was to try some Landrovers on a custom built offroad course... I took out a Freelander, with 3" bullet proof glass and full bombproof armour. It had allot of electronic gadgetry & it would drive itself down a 45degree slope without human input... but you had to know and understand a series of button pushes and sequences to make it do anything... We had great fun in it, but laughed at the suggestion of actually taking it offroad. Too complex, too delicate & too expensive to mess with...


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,812 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    Bluefoam wrote: »
    This thing is nothing like an FJ Cruiser. I've owned one & it's like driving an incredibly capable offroad van, I've also owned & customised a Jeep Wrangler... When you bust the bumper, you replace it with a metal one. When the suspension blows, you swap it out for a raised aftermarket variation. You drive it over and through things...

    The New Defender has air sispension... Never ever take it off road. One day it will blow and cost you thousands to fix. This thing doesn't have a ladder chassis, it has a tub, derived from the Range Rover, with an extra gusset occassionally... DO NOT USE OFFROAD... you have any kind of ding and you're fooked. It doesn't have a hose down interior. Bumpers are colour matched (lol) not on an offroad vehicle. This is a pretentious soccer mom car, overpriced and less than useful. Is it ca[pable of being driven on a gravel track, yes, can it get through deep puddles, yes, can it manage some offroading, sure... should you do any of those things? no, never, neh!

    I did a track day in Dubai with Jaguar & part of it was to try some Landrovers on a custom built offroad course... I took out a Freelander, with 3" bullet proof glass and full bombproof armour. It had allot of electronic gadgetry & it would drive itself down a 45degree slope without human input... but you had to know and understand a series of button pushes and sequences to make it do anything... We had great fun in it, but laughed at the suggestion of actually taking it offroad. Too complex, too delicate & too expensive to mess with...

    There's no market for proper off road vehicles in most countries, you can't buy the proper Land Cruiser in Europe, so why would a company spend millions developing a vehicle with no market? Look at the tyres on any 4x4 and you'll see what they are used for, not many have proper off road tyres and I'd hazard a guess that a good few that do are only for show.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,150 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    It’s a Kia Soul with bits added on!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,645 ✭✭✭krissovo


    Bluefoam wrote: »
    This thing is nothing like an FJ Cruiser. I've owned one & it's like driving an incredibly capable offroad van

    I owned one too, they are soooo similar. Big plastic bumpers, front bonnet ratio to window, wing mirrors, interior, white roof, door shape etc. They were ok off road but nothing to write home about when stock and compared to the old defender.

    490855.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,670 ✭✭✭Bluefoam


    krissovo wrote: »
    I owned one too, they are soooo similar. Big plastic bumpers, front bonnet ratio to window, wing mirrors, interior, white roof, door shape etc. They were ok off road but nothing to write home about when stock and compared to the old defender.

    490855.jpg

    Depends on what you do with them... FJ was the most capable offroader (out of the box) I've ever driven & I've driven allot. The old Defender was and is a fantastic overlander, but because of its powerplants, dated suspension, leaky body it is allot of fun but not as capable for more extreme activities.

    490858.jpg

    490859.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,645 ✭✭✭krissovo


    Ah I see desert off road, completely agree with you. They were great on the loose sand and gravel, rocky trails & bouldering was a different story.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,670 ✭✭✭Bluefoam


    Rock trails... this road was about two kilometers through a mountain pass in Oman. Took us about three hours to navigate... FJ not in scene as it is out front. Rocks got bigger and more difficult to get over as we went on. Locals told us to turn back. Had to physically jump on the side of vehicles at stages to rock them over boulders. Apparently the rocks had washed over the cliff face during recent rain.

    490861.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 195 ✭✭Lofidelity


    Does this mean the Wrangler has the hardcore off road market to itself?
    Theres a new shape one driving around Dublin 2 and its really growing on me. Matte grey and wide wheels.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,670 ✭✭✭Bluefoam


    Lofidelity wrote: »
    Does this mean the Wrangler has the hardcore off road market to itself?
    Theres a new shape one driving around Dublin 2 and its really growing on me. Matte grey and wide wheels.
    There's lots of capable pickups... The G Wagon is still good but very expensive... The Wrangler seems to be the way to go for a serious solid axel off-roader. I had the JK & it was ****e on road, bit savage off-road. I loved every minute of it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,503 ✭✭✭TrailerBob


    I hate to say it but I kinda like it for what it is... The 5 year old in me likes the Tonka truck appeal, and the designers have done a decent job. The tech list is impressive, But the question is what is it?

    You won't see many if any at the mart with the cattle box.. nor will you find them with ESB logos or the like on them. They're not a utility truck. They're another fashion label... Double cab pickups are the darling in Ireland at the minute, and LR aren't interested in that market. I too am a Landcruiser driver, and love the versatility, reliability, toughness and day to day ease of use it brings. I just don't have to think about it. This new LR has too much thinking to be done and it wouldn't tempt me in any way to switch.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭corkgsxr


    Too tonka toy for me

    Lashing some checkerplate pattern on it to try tie it to the original. Meh




  • Bluefoam wrote: »
    This thing is nothing like an FJ Cruiser. I've owned one & it's like driving an incredibly capable offroad van, I've also owned & customised a Jeep Wrangler... When you bust the bumper, you replace it with a metal one. When the suspension blows, you swap it out for a raised aftermarket variation. You drive it over and through things...

    The New Defender has air sispension... Never ever take it off road. One day it will blow and cost you thousands to fix. This thing doesn't have a ladder chassis, it has a tub, derived from the Range Rover, with an extra gusset occassionally... DO NOT USE OFFROAD... you have any kind of ding and you're fooked. It doesn't have a hose down interior. Bumpers are colour matched (lol) not on an offroad vehicle. This is a pretentious soccer mom car, overpriced and less than useful. Is it ca[pable of being driven on a gravel track, yes, can it get through deep puddles, yes, can it manage some offroading, sure... should you do any of those things? no, never, neh!

    I did a track day in Dubai with Jaguar & part of it was to try some Landrovers on a custom built offroad course... I took out a Freelander, with 3" bullet proof glass and full bombproof armour. It had allot of electronic gadgetry & it would drive itself down a 45degree slope without human input... but you had to know and understand a series of button pushes and sequences to make it do anything... We had great fun in it, but laughed at the suggestion of actually taking it offroad. Too complex, too delicate & too expensive to mess with...

    Think you are being a bit ott. The new defender is built from scratch it’s nit based on anything. It will be excellent off road, possibly one of the best off roaders ever made.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    pburns wrote: »
    A Lancruiser or Hi-lux is probably the spiritual successor to the original Defender (in many ways the Toyota legend has far surpassed Land Rover). Even the Discovery Sport is probably a less pretentious alternative.


    I no more need a Land Rover then a JCB, and the JCB would be better in a crash, so...


  • Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭Capra


    Surely it is just going to take sales away from Land Rover and Jaguars other SUVs rather than capturing a new sector of the market? I can't see anyone who wasn't already considering some sort of JLR product looking to buy one of these. They really don't have a clue what they are doing and it's little wonder they are haemorrhaging money.

    A utility vehicle would not cannibalise its own market and there would be a chance that they could sell some to farmers looking for a change. Now I know farmers are often said to not be adventurous, but I've seen enough of them buy Ford Rangers in the last couple of years to know that they can be tempted out of a landcruiser if they like the look of something.


  • Registered Users Posts: 196 ✭✭Capra


    Think you are being a bit ott. The new defender is built from scratch it’s nit based on anything. It will be excellent off road, possibly one of the best off roaders ever made.

    Ah come here. That is nonsense. There are no serious off roader users even looking at these. Sure the Discovery used to be very popular with the off road enthusiasts but since the Discovery 3 (I think) came out they are never used in that scene. Yet the Land Rover marketing bull**** will tell you that it far surpasses any previous models. People who use off road vehicles have a very specific set of requirements and this meets very few of those. Anyone who turns up to an off road meet in one of these will be laughed (and towed) out of the place with some very expensive repairs required.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,407 ✭✭✭Wailin


    Think you are being a bit ott. The new defender is built from scratch it’s nit based on anything. It will be excellent off road, possibly one of the best off roaders ever made.

    Seriously? No chance will it be one of the best off roaders ever made ffs! He talks a lot of sense actually. It's no different to the last discovery with it's fancy air suspension that's nothing but a gimmick.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,369 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    What’s it going to cost? A commercial 3 door Land Cruiser is around €45k I think
    It looks smaller than one of those


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,789 ✭✭✭Jude13


    Does he compare it in the video to an FJ Cruiser? which are the 150 series with a different shell. Basically a prado or Irish version LC.

    Though all of the earlier mentioned vehicles, toyota and jeep, are well more than enough for 99% of the target buyers, so they are just ignoring farmers and search and rescue, who can by a much cheaper Hilux double cab or a Fortunner.


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