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Social Construction of Reality Problems?

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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    Fathom wrote: »
    Can postmodern deconstructionists exhibit social construction?
    For sure, social constructionism is heavily linked to forms postmodernist thinking (e.g.. blank slate etc).


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    mzungu wrote: »
    For sure, social constructionism is heavily linked to forms postmodernist thinking (e.g.. blank slate etc).
    Tabula rasa (blank slate) has a long history. It was attributed to John Locke in his Essay Concerning Human Understanding during the early Age of Enlightenment. B.F. Skinner adopted it for his behaviorism during the modern age of philosophy (e.g., Beyond Freedom and Dignity, 1971).


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,223 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Tabula rasa Lockean empiricism. Social construction starting with a blank slate indeed.


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    Another social construction interpretation problem. Jacques Derrida discussed signature. How were philosopher and scientist works quoted and interpreted after their deaths by others? "According to Derrida in Points..." or "Max Weber in The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism..." or "Charles Darwin in the Origin of Species..." Would any recognize their works as interpreted years after their deaths?


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    Fathom wrote: »
    Another social construction interpretation problem. Jacques Derrida discussed signature. How were philosopher and scientist works quoted and interpreted after their deaths by others? "According to Derrida in Points..." or "Max Weber in The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism..." or "Charles Darwin in the Origin of Species..." Would any recognize their works as interpreted years after their deaths?

    Depending on what point in history the interpretation was done and how it built on the work. Would Plato recognise neo-Platanist thought? Would Aristotle recognise recent works on virtue ethics? Possibly, but they would concede (I presume) that ideas need expanding on and to be changed to fit in with the times.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,223 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    mzungu wrote: »
    Depending on what point in history the interpretation was done and how it built on the work.
    To what extent does historical revisionism affect the former interpretation of earlier constructions? Such revisions can occur over centuries, or in a more recent case the President Donald Trump sex tapes, where Trump claims a year later that it was not his voice bragging about grabbing random women between the legs, or kissing them without their consent. Billy Bush appeared last night on The Late Show with Stephen Colbert claiming that he was there interviewing Trump, and Trump said everything on the tape.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    Black Swan wrote: »
    To what extent does historical revisionism affect the former interpretation of earlier constructions? Such revisions can occur over centuries, or in a more recent case the President Donald Trump sex tapes, where Trump claims a year later that it was not his voice bragging about grabbing random women between the legs, or kissing them without their consent. Billy Bush appeared last night on The Late Show with Stephen Colbert claiming that he was there interviewing Trump, and Trump said everything on the tape.
    In the example you gave of Trump's comments, that wasn't historical revisionism...... it was a case of flat out lying. Maybe historical revisionism can become the new byword for telling porkies. Although they do say history is written by the victor, so historical revisionism can be sometimes allied with being (very) economical with the truth. I am not sure what Trump was doing when he denied it was him on the tape, mainly because he admitted he said it himself in the interview below....



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 8,986 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    A new social construction affecting women occurring now in America? Surge of sexual abuse complaints. CEOs, producers, actors, news anchors, gymnastics coaches, politicians, etc., removed from jobs & office. Four US Senators calling for Donald Trump to resign based upon history of abuse. Billy Bush tape with Trump bragging about assaulting women. Howard Stern tape with Trump bragging about viewing women changing in Miss USA and Teen USA dressing rooms. Now Alabama US Senate Republican candidate Roy Moore running in special election this week with history of dating underage teen girls, and banned from mall for stalking them.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    Fathom wrote: »
    A new social construction affecting women occurring now in America? Surge of sexual abuse complaints. CEOs, producers, actors, news anchors, gymnastics coaches, politicians, etc., removed from jobs & office. Four US Senators calling for Donald Trump to resign based upon history of abuse. Billy Bush tape with Trump bragging about assaulting women. Howard Stern tape with Trump bragging about viewing women changing in Miss USA and Teen USA dressing rooms. Now Alabama US Senate Republican candidate Roy Moore running in special election this week with history of dating underage teen girls, and banned from mall for stalking them.
    From a surveillance standpoint, I wonder if this panoptic effect of social media will in future act as a conditioning of sorts as a way to police people from committing assaults like the ones mentioned above, or any other kind for that matter?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 8,986 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    mzungu wrote: »
    From a surveillance standpoint, I wonder if this panoptic effect of social media will in future act as a conditioning of sorts as a way to police people from committing assaults like the ones mentioned above, or any other kind for that matter?
    Or is this just the latest news media craze? Once viewers get bored, ratings fall, and a new craze replaces this one. Not enough time for a lasting social construction.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    Fathom wrote: »
    Or is this just the latest news media craze? Once viewers get bored, ratings fall, and a new craze replaces this one. Not enough time for a lasting social construction.
    Different types of social media will come along and those platforms could sell even more invasive self-surveillance to the masses. This could lead to self-regulation due to the fear of potentially being watched. Ala Foucault in Discipline and Punish, except with a digital twist!


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,223 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    mzungu wrote: »
    Different types of social media will come along and those platforms could sell even more invasive self-surveillance to the masses. This could lead to self-regulation due to the fear of potentially being watched. Ala Foucault in Discipline and Punish, except with a digital twist!
    Would proxy sites like Tor and TunnelBear that hide IPs and origins become more prolific, perhaps contributing to the difference between real world and virtual world social constructions?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 8,986 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    Black Swan wrote: »
    Would proxy sites like Tor and TunnelBear that hide IPs and origins become more prolific, perhaps contributing to the difference between real world and virtual world social constructions?
    Virtual anonymity social construction?


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    Black Swan wrote: »
    Would proxy sites like Tor and TunnelBear that hide IPs and origins become more prolific, perhaps contributing to the difference between real world and virtual world social constructions?
    That would have an impact alright, but I am wondering how many everyday internet users would actually go and use stuff like Tor.
    Fathom wrote:
    Virtual anonymity social construction?
    In future, depending on the social media app, there may not be any anonymity allowed. For example, todays Sunday Indo says:
    Social media users could be forced to hand over passport or public service card details to sign up to Facebook, Twitter and Instagram under radical new plans aimed at stamping out online bullying and trolling.

    Minister for Older People Jim Daly has written to the EU Commission demanding new Europe-wide laws which would make tech giants more responsible for faceless trolls and paedophiles who use their websites to stalk victims.

    In a letter to Mariya Gabriel, the Digital Economy and Society Commissioner, Mr Daly insisted the EU should be doing more to make the internet a safer place for children.

    "I urge you commissioner to consider a new policy that will require multinationals, such as Facebook, to introduce new and stronger methods of authenticating accounts created on their platforms," the minister said.

    He added that the ease with which users could set up accounts was "extremely worrying" and insisted more should be done to ensure accounts were authentic, and that those creating them were above the required age for registering.

    "One such method I would encourage would be the introduction of a cross-check with a social security number as per the Irish public service card, which would confirm a person's date of birth, or a passport number in order to create an account," he said.

    "This would not limit people creating multiple profiles, rather it would clearly create a link between all online accounts that person may have," he added.

    Mr Daly said the EU should take a "strong stance" on the issue and force multi-billion euro tech companies to take more responsibility for the content on their websites.

    "I do not want to restrict EU citizens' access to the internet but rather place more emphasis on multinational corporations to take more responsibility in being proactive with offering a secure service and to safeguard our children," he added.

    The minister said there were serious problems worldwide over the increase in fake online social media accounts, which were used to "exploit those most vulnerable in our society". He also has an issue with minors being able to sign up to websites without providing any form of identification.

    "Children who use these platforms cannot escape the dark side of the worldwide web as they continue to ping even as they try to sleep at night, there is no escaping the online bully," he said.

    Mr Daly previously drafted legislation to make it illegal for parents to allow their children to have unlimited access to the worldwide web without adult supervision.

    The minister said the legislation was not aimed at parents but was proposed in an effort to equip parents with the tools to say no to children demanding access to the internet.

    "The peer pressure nowadays for a child to own a smart phone at eight or nine years of age, now typically bought with Communion money, is a significant challenge for parents to overcome," he said.

    A cross-departmental group, including Mr Daly, has begun meeting to discuss online safety for children and the implementation of EU directives in the area of online behaviour.

    The group is being led by Minister for Communications Denis Naughten and includes Minister for Justice Charlie Flanagan and Minister for Children Katherine Zappone.

    The EU Commission has begun a consultation process on tackling the rise of 'fake news' and recently published a communication on cracking down on the amount of illegal content online.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/social-media-users-could-be-forced-to-hand-over-passport-to-sign-up-to-sites-36414579.html

    I guess the question is, would anybody trust Twitter/Facebook/Instagram with a social security number given how easily this stuff can be hacked?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 8,986 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    mzungu wrote: »
    That would have an impact alright, but I am wondering how many everyday internet users would actually go and use stuff like Tor.
    Typical lazy consumer?
    mzungu wrote: »
    In future, depending on the social media app, there may not be any anonymity allowed.
    Dark Web alternative for those valuing their anonymity?
    mzungu wrote: »
    I guess the question is, would anybody trust Twitter/Facebook/Instagram with a social security number given how easily this stuff can be hacked?
    ID theft problem if hacked.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    Fathom wrote: »
    Typical lazy consumer?
    Not so much lazy, but more apprehensive. Mention Tor to people and the first thing they think of is of using it for illegal activities like buying illicit substances and guns etc.
    Fathom wrote: »
    Dark Web alternative for those valuing their anonymity?
    As above, I think if that were to happen the dark web would need to start getting better press in order to become mainstream.
    Fathom wrote: »
    ID theft problem if hacked.
    Exactly. It is one thing to use it on a government website, but another entirely to be at the mercy of a global giant that really couldn't give a fiddlers about ones net security....even if their public face suggests otherwise!


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 8,986 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    mzungu wrote: »
    Mention Tor to people and the first thing they think of is of using it for illegal activities like buying illicit substances and guns etc.
    Suffer privacy for stereotyping.
    mzungu wrote: »
    As above, I think if that were to happen the dark web would need to start getting better press in order to become mainstream.
    Which hat to wear? Black? Gray? White?
    mzungu wrote: »
    Exactly. It is one thing to use it on a government website, but another entirely to be at the mercy of a global giant that really couldn't give a fiddlers about ones net security....even if their public face suggests otherwise!
    Profits not people.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,223 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    mzungu wrote: »
    As above, I think if that were to happen the dark web would need to start getting better press in order to become mainstream.
    Fathom wrote: »
    Which hat to wear? Black? Gray? White?
    Dark web symbolic fashion and activities: Now there's a research topic to study in terms of its virtual social construction of reality. You would have to enter their hidden field as a participant-observer, which would be problematic indeed.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 8,986 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    Modern day Radcliffe-Brown virtually participant-observes dark web? Would his structural functionalism approach work when examining this social construction?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,223 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Does "Ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny" (Ernst Haeckel) in the social construction of reality? I'm unsure being halfway between modern structural functionalism (Max Weber) and post-modern deconstructionism (Jacques Derrida).


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 8,986 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    "Form follows function" in social construction?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,223 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Modern structure-functionalist position, which has been challenged by post-modern theories and philosophies.


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    Postmodern Derridean deconstruction of social construction? What's excluded in a social construction? Tells a lot. Points (Jacques Derrida interviews).


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,223 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Indeed, Jacques Derrida does examine what is missing in a model (e.g., social construction) in the second part of the 1st chapter of Points. You've been doing your homework Fathom.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 8,986 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    Derridean signature important to citing others when socially constructing?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,223 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Fathom wrote: »
    Derridean signature important to citing others when socially constructing?
    That's opening a can of worms for all citations of philosophers, sociologists, anthropologists, etc.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Regional East Moderators, Regional Midlands Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators, Regional North Mods, Regional West Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Regional North East Moderators, Regional North West Moderators, Regional South Moderators Posts: 8,986 CMod ✭✭✭✭Fathom


    Where does chaos theory and social construction fit?


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