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Laws Question? Ask here!

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Comments

  • #32
    Tim Robbins
    Registered Users Posts: 8,958 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    mikedragon32 wrote: »
    No, once the ball has touched the ground or a team-mate, the score will not be allowed.
    That's correct. From law book.

    9.A.2. KICK AT GOAL - SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES
    (a) If after the ball is kicked, it touches the ground or any team mate
    of the kicker, a goal cannot be scored.
    (b) If the ball has crossed the cross bar a goal is scored, even if the
    wind blows it back into the field of play.
    (c) If an opponent commits an offence as the kick at goal is being
    taken, but neverthless the kick is successful, advantage is played
    and the score stands.
    (d) Any player who touches the ball in an attempt to prevent a penalty
    goal being scored is illegally touching the ball.


  • #33
    Stealdo
    Registered Users Posts: 670 ✭✭✭Stealdo


    Tim Robbins wrote: »
    (d) Any player who touches the ball in an attempt to prevent a penalty
    goal being scored is illegally touching the ball.


    That's an interesting one Tim - do you reckon that includes a player standing 10 metres back from a low kick who puts his hands up to block it? (a la Gaelic Football or Aussie Rules)?


  • #34
    mikedragon32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,939 ✭✭✭mikedragon32


    Yes. It also prohibits a "line out" style lift to catch a ball before it goes over the crossbar.


  • #35
    Stealdo
    Registered Users Posts: 670 ✭✭✭Stealdo


    mikedragon32 wrote: »
    Yes. It also prohibits a "line out" style lift to catch a ball before it goes over the crossbar.

    yeah, knew that, but I always would have thought that if a guy is standing back the required 10m with his feet on the ground and a kick at goal is low enough for him to reach he'd be entitled to play it. Probably another ill considered consequence of change to prevent the case you mention.

    I was watching the BBC GS special online yesterday and was surprised to hear Paddy Wallace say that having seen the replays he didn't think Barnes should have given a penalty against him at the end of the game against Wales. I thought it was a clear cut case. Ruck had formed, he played the ball with his hands. Anyone got any other opinions?

    The way I see it AWJ is tackled in midfield, Wallace attempts to get to the ball, is on his feet, but by the time he get his hands on it there are two Welsh players on their feet, bound to him so a ruck has formed and he has to keep his hands away from it. I can't really see an argument against it. Anyone got any opinions on that?


  • #36
    mikedragon32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,939 ✭✭✭mikedragon32


    None from me. Clear cut penalty imo.


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  • #37
    robgloster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 91 ✭✭robgloster


    Line out Question!

    Have had alot of conflicting refs with this one

    Jummy jumpers pretending to jump with a slight hop waiting 3 seconds then going up . Some refs allow it other dont.


  • #38
    Downtime
    Registered Users Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭Downtime


    If it is forcing the opposition to jump/lift early then it is a management issue. it is illegal under law 19.9 (i).

    Jumping or supporting before the ball is thrown. A player must not
    jump for the ball or support any player before the ball has left the hands
    of the player throwing it in. Penalty: Free Kick on the 15-metre line

    Referees should try an mange it first by stopping the line out and addressing the issue. if it reoccurs then free kick.


  • #39
    robgloster
    Closed Accounts Posts: 91 ✭✭robgloster


    Downtime wrote: »
    If it is forcing the opposition to jump/lift early then it is a management issue. it is illegal under law 19.9 (i).


    Thank you that was exactly the aim of our lineout to get them to jump early


  • #40
    pdelahunty
    Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭pdelahunty


    It should probably be penalised as crossing but it just goes to show what a player he is that he would think to do something like that - quality


  • #41
    Gelio
    Registered Users Posts: 2,238 ✭✭✭Gelio


    Tim Robbins wrote: »
    And it must be moving. If you have one foot in touch and just pick up a static ball it doesn't count.

    What if its rolling?


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  • #42
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,251 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    ajeffares wrote: »
    What if its rolling?

    That's fine. If you pick up a rolling ball with one foot over the dead ball line then it counts as the ball having gone dead.


  • #43
    Gelio
    Registered Users Posts: 2,238 ✭✭✭Gelio


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    That's fine. If you pick up a rolling ball with one foot over the dead ball line then it counts as the ball having gone dead.


    Thanks, Handy to know


  • #44
    Serenity Now!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,326 ✭✭✭Serenity Now!


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    That's fine. If you pick up a rolling ball with one foot over the dead ball line then it counts as the ball having gone dead.

    If this is about the Munster v Ospreys game, Williams actually grabbed the ball before he touched the line with his foot (on the line is over the line). Barnes called correctly. Not too long afterwards, Howlett did the exact same (touched the line after taking the ball) and Barnes (and asst ref) called incorrectly.
    The Wallabies were robbed in the second Bledisloe in this respect when Ashley-Cooper set himself up to gather the ball after his foot was in place over the touch around 10m out from his own line. Instead of getting throw in the lineout, it was given to the All Blacks who won the lineout and then two rucks later went over for the try.


  • #45
    daveharnett
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭daveharnett


    Serenity Now! wrote: »
    If this is about the Munster v Ospreys game, Williams actually grabbed the ball before he touched the line with his foot (on the line is over the line). Barnes called correctly.
    I'd make a tiny quibble with that.

    1: Williams grabs the (just) rolling ball in the goal area.
    2: Williams puts a foot on the dead ball line.
    3: Williams touches the ball down.

    Barnes awarded a drop out because williams touched the ball down. Technically, he should have awarded the drop out because williams carried it dead.

    Even when he's right he's wrong;)


  • #46
    daveharnett
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭daveharnett


    enda1 wrote: »
    Are you allowed throw the ball forward (such as over the head of oposition) and then catch it yourself again. I guss its considered a forward pass.

    However if you "fumble" the ball forward and catch it its ok? Even if the fumble is to your advantage?
    12.1 THE OUTCOME OF A KNOCK ON OR THROW FORWARD
    ...
    (e) Intentional knock or throw forward. A player must not
    intentionally knock the ball forward with hand or arm, nor throw
    forward.

    So you can "fumble" it all you want as long as the ref it happy that it's not deliberate.

    Downtime wrote: »
    You can mark a penalty so therefore you and jump (unaided) to catch the ball before it goes over the bar.
    9.A.2. KICK AT GOAL - SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES
    ...
    (d) Any player who touches the ball in an attempt to prevent a penalty
    goal being scored is illegally touching the ball.


  • #47
    daveharnett
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭daveharnett


    Stealdo wrote: »
    That's an interesting one Tim - do you reckon that includes a player standing 10 metres back from a low kick who puts his hands up to block it? (a la Gaelic Football or Aussie Rules)?
    Yes, if the kick stands any chance of going over.

    Oh, and
    21.5 SCORING A GOAL FROM A PENALTY KICK
    ....
    (c) If the kicker indicates to the referee the intent to kick at goal, the
    opposing team must stand still with their hands by their sides
    from the time the kicker starts to approach to kick until the ball is
    kicked.


  • #48
    Downtime
    Registered Users Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭Downtime


    He cannot block it as 9.A.2. KICK AT GOAL - SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES applies unless it is for protection.

    He can still jump and catch the ball if it coming towards him as he is not preventing the goal from being scored unless it is actually going over the bar which is what I meant.

    It would want to be a good jump to prevent a score as a rugby cross bar is 3m but then he would be penalised.


  • #49
    Sundy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,512 ✭✭✭Sundy


    Downtime wrote: »
    He cannot block it as 9.A.2. KICK AT GOAL - SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES applies unless it is for protection.

    He can still jump and catch the ball if it coming towards him as he is not preventing the goal from being scored unless it is actually going over the bar which is what I meant.

    It would want to be a good jump to prevent a score as a rugby cross bar is 3m but then he would be penalised.
    Well in fairness you did say before the ball goes over the bar it which case you would be preventing the goal being scored.

    I think the point your making is that you can jump to catch a ball that is going wide or falling short. Correct?


  • #50
    Stealdo
    Registered Users Posts: 670 ✭✭✭Stealdo


    Question - if the ball goes into touch outside the 22, and a player takes a quick throw in inside the 22 does it count as being passed back in? Or is it ok to go straight to touch?


  • #51
    Downtime
    Registered Users Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭Downtime


    It counts as being passed back in as the line of touch is outside the 22.


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  • #52
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    What exactly is a legal tackle? I was under the impression that there had to be an effort to wrap arm around the player, but then ankle-tap tackles would be illegal.


  • #53
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    amacachi wrote: »
    What exactly is a legal tackle? I was under the impression that there had to be an effort to wrap arm around the player, but then ankle-tap tackles would be illegal.



    I think you have to use you're arm in a tackle, which you do in an angle tap.


  • #54
    Downtime
    Registered Users Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭Downtime


    For a tackle to take place, the tacker must wrap his arms around the player and also bring the player to ground. Othersie it is not a tackle. Therefore an ankle tap isnt considered a tackle nor is what Powell did yesterday. In fairness Powell did attemp to wrap one arm around the player. All in all for an attemped tackle or hit the full arm must be wrapped around the player.


  • #55
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Downtime wrote: »
    For a tackle to take place, the tacker must wrap his arms around the player and also bring the player to ground. Othersie it is not a tackle. Therefore an ankle tap isnt considered a tackle nor is what Powell did yesterday. In fairness Powell did attemp to wrap one arm around the player. All in all for an attemped tackle or hit the full arm must be wrapped around the player.

    So how are ankle-taps legal when there's no wrapping?


  • #56
    Tim Robbins
    Registered Users Posts: 8,958 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    amacachi wrote: »
    So how are ankle-taps legal when there's no wrapping?

    Because you are leading with your arm. Trips - leading with the foot are not ok.


  • #57
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Tim Robbins wrote: »
    Because you are leading with your arm. Trips - leading with the foot are not ok.

    So just shoving someone with your hands is fine too? Not trying to be obtuse, just I was always told ya had to wrap.


  • #58
    Tim Robbins
    Registered Users Posts: 8,958 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    amacachi wrote: »
    So just shoving someone with your hands is fine too? Not trying to be obtuse, just I was always told ya had to wrap.

    Law 7 Mode of Play, Playing a match.

    "Any player may tackle, hold or push an opponent holding the ball".


  • #59
    enda1
    Registered Users Posts: 5,166 ✭✭✭enda1


    amacachi wrote: »
    So just shoving someone with your hands is fine too? Not trying to be obtuse, just I was always told ya had to wrap.

    Think about trying to get somebody into touch as you see all the time!


  • #60
    Downtime
    Registered Users Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭Downtime


    amacachi wrote: »
    So how are ankle-taps legal when there's no wrapping?

    An ankle tap is not a tackle


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  • #61
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Tim Robbins wrote: »
    Law 7 Mode of Play, Playing a match.

    "Any player may tackle, hold or push an opponent holding the ball".
    Thanks for that.
    enda1 wrote: »
    Think about trying to get somebody into touch as you see all the time!

    Aye, was also wondering about the pushing thing. Like I said I was just always told wrapping had to happen, which is why ankle-taps and pushing people into touch seemed odd.

    Thanks for clearing it up anyway.


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