Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

Faugheen · 18-11-2019 11:29pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

believe it or not your country doesnt stop at Lucan

What’s a Lucan?

Dubinusa · 19-11-2019 12:25am

Just watched the match. Benneton were really up for it.
We were so so, but some fine performers. Ringrose, R.O.L and VDF were the pick of the bunch for me.
R.O.L was fantastic. His passing was really good and I think he really came out looking good. VDF was great. Ran great support lines and really looks the part out in the wider channels.

Kelleher was very good as was Healy. Healy is just insanely good. It's hard to believe he's this good at 32 years old.
Hopefully Furlong can get back into the side. Lyon will be tough, they don't have to integrate players back in from the rwc. It will be really tough.

Exclamation Marc · 19-11-2019 1:38am

Kevski wrote: »

Has anybody heard anything from Leinster about the STH draw for 6 Nations tickets? It was supposed to take place last Friday but I haven’t even gotten the usual email to say that I’ve been unsuccessful.

Yeah, I was lucky enough to get Wales tickets and have the money taken from the card so I think they're done.

joseywhales · 19-11-2019 2:45am

salmocab wrote: »

Do women in the midlands already know to be hush?

You will wish that her response is not silence

Rigor Mortis · 19-11-2019 8:04am

Faugheen wrote: »

What’s a Lucan?

He was that chappie who went missing. Nasty business

salmocab · 19-11-2019 8:35am

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

He was that chappie who went missing. Nasty business

Didn’t he own a horse? Sounds like a northsider.

Serbian · 20-11-2019 4:54pm

salmocab wrote: »

Didn’t he own a horse? Sounds like a northsider.

That's the Irish paradox right there. If you own a horse in Ireland, you're either exceptionally rich or exceptionally poor.

Rigor Mortis · 20-11-2019 5:35pm

Serbian wrote: »

That's the Irish paradox right there. If you own a horse in Ireland, you're either exceptionally rich or exceptionally poor.

Just goes to prove that there is no serious inequality in this country.

salmocab · 20-11-2019 5:59pm

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

Just goes to prove that there is no serious inequality in this country.

Unless your in the creamy middle

sydthebeat · 20-11-2019 7:06pm

salmocab wrote: »

Unless your in the creamy middle

Creamed middle?

salmocab · 20-11-2019 7:34pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Creamed middle?

No thanks

Dave_The_Sheep · 20-11-2019 9:08pm

No idea how much or little a deal this is, but good on him all the same.

21-11-2019 9:08am

Total lottery this weekend. Lyon could put on an absolute display against us and then go and lose in their away leg to Benneton and I wouldn't remotely be surprised.

Whilst Lyon are only 5 ahead of second in the top14 they are 15 beyond 3rd. Interestingly however there are only 3 points between 3rd and 12th so the chasing pack is basically the rest of the table.

Where they are really standing out is in the details. They've only lost 1 game, all other teams have lost at least 3. Their Points difference is already a staggering +165. 10 of the top 14 teams are on minus points difference with two others on less than +25. Bordeaux in second are on +105 and have one more bonus point this season than Lyon.

The top14 is extremely competitive this year but Lyon have definitely stood apart in the early season. Impossible to know what their focus is going to be and whether they will give the Champions cup a proper run. As far as this weekend is concerned it won't matter, they'll show up and we'll need to be at our clinical best.

molloyjh · 21-11-2019 10:01am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Total lottery this weekend. Lyon could put on an absolute display against us and then go and lose in their away leg to Benneton and I wouldn't remotely be surprised.

Whilst Lyon are only 5 ahead of second in the top14 they are 15 beyond 3rd. Interestingly however there are only 3 points between 3rd and 12th so the chasing pack is basically the rest of the table.

Where they are really standing out is in the details. They've only lost 1 game, all other teams have lost at least 3. Their Points difference is already a staggering +165. 10 of the top 14 teams are on minus points difference with two others on less than +25. Bordeaux in second are on +105 and have one more bonus point this season than Lyon.

The top14 is extremely competitive this year but Lyon have definitely stood apart in the early season. Impossible to know what their focus is going to be and whether they will give the Champions cup a proper run. As far as this weekend is concerned it won't matter, they'll show up and we'll need to be at our clinical best.

Certainly at this stage they can afford to look to Europe a bit given they have some sort of buffer in the T14.

Shefwedfan · 21-11-2019 10:03am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Total lottery this weekend. Lyon could put on an absolute display against us and then go and lose in their away leg to Benneton and I wouldn't remotely be surprised.

Whilst Lyon are only 5 ahead of second in the top14 they are 15 beyond 3rd. Interestingly however there are only 3 points between 3rd and 12th so the chasing pack is basically the rest of the table.

Where they are really standing out is in the details. They've only lost 1 game, all other teams have lost at least 3. Their Points difference is already a staggering +165. 10 of the top 14 teams are on minus points difference with two others on less than +25. Bordeaux in second are on +105 and have one more bonus point this season than Lyon.

The top14 is extremely competitive this year but Lyon have definitely stood apart in the early season. Impossible to know what their focus is going to be and whether they will give the Champions cup a proper run. As far as this weekend is concerned it won't matter, they'll show up and we'll need to be at our clinical best.

They had nearly no one at the WC according to reports so they will get pulled back in now the other teams are back to full force

Shefwedfan · 21-11-2019 10:04am

They will go after Leinster, even if they don’t bother for rest of tournament .......Leinster would be a huge win for them

Granny15 · 21-11-2019 11:36am

What do people think re Deegan. Will he play or will more experienced player get selected ahead of him like Ruddock?

Personally feel his work rate isn't the best and could go missing in Europe against a big pack which Lyon have.

FrannoFan · 21-11-2019 12:31pm

Granny15 wrote: »

What do people think re Deegan. Will he play or will more experienced player get selected ahead of him like Ruddock?

Personally feel his work rate isn't the best and could go missing in Europe against a big pack which Lyon have.

i think he has really increased his work rate over the last season. Racks up big tackle counts to go with his carrying. Think the emergence of Dorris has been good for him.

Anyone could go missing when you are away to a big french pack.

kingofthekong · 21-11-2019 12:41pm

Anyone else sad about Sarries not focusing on Europe this year?, think whoever wins the comp this year will have a huge Asterix beside it if Sarries are playing their B team,

And from a Leinster point of view i wanted the rematch pretty badly

SuperCet · 21-11-2019 12:59pm

I think there is more of a huge asterix (rather than the little Gaul) beside Sarries wins over the last few years, given that they have been found guilty of systematic cheating for the last 3 years and have taken the punishment for it.

sydthebeat · 21-11-2019 1:05pm

SuperCet wrote: »

I think there is more of a huge asterix (rather than the little Gaul) beside Sarries wins over the last few years, given that they have been found guilty of systematic cheating for the last 3 years and have taken the punishment for it.

premiership wins maybe.

but for me their european wins are valid.
i see then the same as toulon in that their first team squad is very much a team of galaticos, only saracens have recruited the best of england, whereas toulon was a lot more foreign based.

FrannoFan · 21-11-2019 1:05pm

kingofthekong wrote: »

Anyone else sad about Sarries not focusing on Europe this year?, think whoever wins the comp this year will have a huge Asterix beside it if Sarries are playing their B team,

And from a Leinster point of view i wanted the rematch pretty badly

French teams been given domestic league priority for years and no asterix beside any other winners.

if we overcome claremont/exeter/toulouse etc it will still be a hard won tournament

FrannoFan · 21-11-2019 1:08pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

premiership wins maybe.

but for me their european wins are valid.
i see then the same as toulon in that their first team squad is very much a team of galaticos, only saracens have recruited the best of england, whereas toulon was a lot more foreign based.

agree. nothing wrong with their european success as no wage cap in europe and just took what french teams been trying to do for years but managed it more successfully.

If i was Exeter though i'd be fuming! losing finals to a team that has systematically been cheating.

Squidgy Black · 21-11-2019 1:20pm

Yeah the likes of Exeter and even teams who were relegated in marginal battles have a legitimate grievance against Sarries league wins because they were all supposed to be held to the same standard in terms of salary cap.

Not applicable for Europe so doesn't really play a part. They haven't broken any regulations or standards in European competitions.

SuperCet · 21-11-2019 1:21pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

premiership wins maybe.

but for me their european wins are valid.
i see then the same as toulon in that their first team squad is very much a team of galaticos, only saracens have recruited the best of england, whereas toulon was a lot more foreign based.

Sarries finished in the top 3 in the premiership each of the years they've been sanctioned and are open to the same issues again this year.

Had they played within the premiership rules, how successful in Europe would they have been if they weren't seeded as highly? Easier European groups on the back of breaking premiership rules...

Could be argued it takes the gloss off their success, more than anything.

errlloyd · 21-11-2019 2:46pm

kingofthekong wrote: »

Anyone else sad about Sarries not focusing on Europe this year?, think whoever wins the comp this year will have a huge Asterix beside it if Sarries are playing their B team,

And from a Leinster point of view i wanted the rematch pretty badly

I think by this logic there is always an Asterix there.

I love the Champions Cup, but the meritocracy of it is always questionable. The truth is that teams in the same pool end up experiencing different difficulty in their games depending on when they fall, and teams in the same tier of the draw end up in VASTLY different pools depending on a myriad of factors.

Those advantages are then compounded by a knockout stage that just exentuates whatever dumb luck your team ended up getting the draw and the pool stage.

We are often gifted with teams that are among the best getting to the final. But very often very good teams don't even get close to the final. That's cup rugby.

prawnsambo · 21-11-2019 2:53pm

errlloyd wrote: »

I think by this logic there is always an Asterix there.

I love the Champions Cup, but the meritocracy of it is always questionable. The truth is that teams in the same pool end up experiencing different difficulty in their games depending on when they fall, and teams in the same tier of the draw end up in VASTLY different pools depending on a myriad of factors.

Those advantages are then compounded by a knockout stage that just exentuates whatever dumb luck your team ended up getting the draw and the pool stage.

We are often gifted with teams that are among the best getting to the final. But very often very good teams don't even get close to the final. That's cup rugby.

I thought he was French.

aloooof · 21-11-2019 3:01pm

errlloyd wrote: »

I think by this logic there is always an Asterix there.

I love the Champions Cup, but the meritocracy of it is always questionable. The truth is that teams in the same pool end up experiencing different difficulty in their games depending on when they fall, and teams in the same tier of the draw end up in VASTLY different pools depending on a myriad of factors.

Those advantages are then compounded by a knockout stage that just exentuates whatever dumb luck your team ended up getting the draw and the pool stage.

We are often gifted with teams that are among the best getting to the final. But very often very good teams don't even get close to the final. That's cup rugby.

I'd agree with a lot of this, tbh. It's cup rugby, it's imperfect but, for the most part, it's a brilliant competition. (As a comparison, I don't think anyone puts an asterix next any 6 Nations victory, which is the definition of imperfect, given the home vs away situation).

Malachy Clerkin on Added Time podcast made the point this week that the Champions League group stage is generally pretty poor, but the Champions Cup group stage is always pretty good.

Gerry Thornley added that as well as that, however imperfect a competition it is, invariably, the best team in any given year wins it. Clermont might be one exception to that but I can't think of many others.

awec · 21-11-2019 3:28pm

errlloyd wrote: »

I think by this logic there is always an Asterix there.

I love the Champions Cup, but the meritocracy of it is always questionable. The truth is that teams in the same pool end up experiencing different difficulty in their games depending on when they fall, and teams in the same tier of the draw end up in VASTLY different pools depending on a myriad of factors.

Those advantages are then compounded by a knockout stage that just exentuates whatever dumb luck your team ended up getting the draw and the pool stage.

We are often gifted with teams that are among the best getting to the final. But very often very good teams don't even get close to the final. That's cup rugby.

The competition isn't really designed to be a meritocracy. For example, when creating the pools, the competition weights the three leagues equally, when this is not really reality. Teams aren't ranked based on their actual ability, they're ranked relative to the rest of their league. Which means, for example, that you end up in a situation where the likes of Racing, who are a better team than pretty much every Pro14 entrant other than Leinster, are actually ranked in tier 3 which is the same as Connacht!

This, combined with wanting to have at least 1 team from each league in each pool (which is important otherwise the competition would just be like the league) means you can end up with some really strong pools and some really weak ones.

The change I'd make is to do away with the automatic pairings for the quarter final stage and have a draw instead. In any given pairing, whatever team was highest ranked plays at home. And then another draw at semi final stage.

errlloyd · 21-11-2019 3:33pm

awec wrote: »

The change I'd make is to do away with the automatic pairings for the quarter final stage and have a draw instead. In any given pairing, whatever team was highest ranked plays at home. And then another draw at semi final stage.

I like that. I used to hate the randomly drawn semis, but in retrospect, they're probably fairer than the current system.

Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

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