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Jim Gavin

245

Comments

  • #32
    Kevhog1988
    Registered Users Posts: 3,959 ✭✭✭Kevhog1988


    Micko is the only man ahead of him in my eyes. I think Dublin will be beaten this year.


  • #33
    False Prophet
    Registered Users Posts: 831 ✭✭✭False Prophet


    Donnielighto wrote: »
    Wouldnt rate McGuinness heffo or harte near him. Also where else did they do it?

    Micko is better but that's it, your own limits aren't being applied to that list??

    Heffo turned Dublin into a powerhouse from a laughing stock, could someone else have, prob not. I cant imagine any true dub who knows his history would have heffo behind him.
    Harte won 3 all Irelands despite some tragic circumstances. Would anyone else have? Prob not. Plus changed football
    Mcguiness won all Ireland with donegal, no-one else would have. Plus changed football.

    For me winning with this unbelievable marvellous squad of Dublin players playing at home with best of everything doesnt compare. In fact at times like bringing Connelly back he nearly caused them to lose. Just look at the standard of player left out of matchday squads.


  • #34
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 24,800 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    False Prophet wrote: »
    He won with Donegal! Not kerry or Dublin. He also revolutionized football.

    That’s like someone saying Howard Wilkinson was a better manager than Alex Ferguson because he won with Leeds, once, a bit Walter Mitty old bean..


  • #35
    spurshero
    Registered Users Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭spurshero


    False Prophet wrote: »
    He won with Donegal! Not kerry or Dublin. He also revolutionized football.

    Revolutionised football lol . He turned most people off football . If he was a great manager he would have won another one in 2014 when an average kerry team by there standards beat them in final . Never get all this mcguinness love . He was manager of a big county where there no real rugby soccer or hurling played to a decent level . It’s not the loaves and fishes deal that some make it out to be .


  • #36
    threeball
    Registered Users Posts: 7,921 ✭✭✭threeball


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Is it a slightly unusual time to retire, shortly before the league begins?

    I would have thought if he was retiring he'd have done it a couple of months ago, but now am thinking that he announced it to tho county board and players a while back, or even a select few, and has just been prepping for the handover.

    Not a chance that many people knew and it didn't get out.


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  • #37
    Rosita
    Registered Users Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭Rosita


    False Prophet wrote: »

    In fact at times like bringing Connelly back he nearly caused them to lose.

    This is a strange comment in the context of the facts and is influenced by a dislike for the personality involved I would say. Connolly came into the drawn final after 67 minutes after which Dublin outscored Kerry by 0-1 to 0-0. In the replay he came on at half-time after which Dublin outscored Kerry by 1-8 to 0-5. (Not saying he was specifically responsible for that but he certainly didn't negatively impact on them)

    The reality is that Kerry managed just two points in the last 32 minutes of the replay, only one of those from play, and were outscored 1-17 to 0-11 from play over 76 minutes. Never was a six-point margin more emphatic. The idea that Dublin "nearly lost" is dodgy; the idea that Connolly nearly caused it is just laughable. Obviously he tried an unsuccessful shot at goal in the drawn game but so did Paddy Small and Brian Howard but you don't mention them.


  • #38
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users Posts: 15,281 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Just anecdotally last night was talking to various ppl who’d be into the gaa

    There was a muted response when I mentioned JGs retirement from dublin

    Just to say I had to bring up the topic which I felt was odd in itself when the talk was on gaa.

    The general sense was he is nowhere near Micko but he can claim the drive for 5 but ppl see those wins as tarnished due to the financial doping as some call it. One guy vehemently insulted him which I felt was Ott.

    One lady said he’s very humble and doesn’t do it for media attention which I would applaud.

    Certainly no weeping and gnashing of teeth over his departure


  • #39
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users Posts: 15,281 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Even I note this morning there’s only 4 pages of comment on this thread about his retirement. Says a lot. I would’ve expected 10 + pages after the news broke to be honest

    Is there something more to this


  • #40
    Duffy the Vampire Slayer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭Duffy the Vampire Slayer


    spurshero wrote: »
    Revolutionised football lol . He turned most people off football . If he was a great manager he would have won another one in 2014 when an average kerry team by there standards beat them in final . Never get all this mcguinness love . He was manager of a big county where there no real rugby soccer or hurling played to a decent level . It’s not the loaves and fishes deal that some make it out to be .

    There's more soccer in Donegal than most counties.


  • #41
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    Even I note this morning there’s only 4 pages of comment on this thread about his retirement. Says a lot. I would’ve expected 10 + pages after the news broke to be honest

    Is there something more to this

    I think it’s just came to a natural end after breaking the record, and because of that it’s not that much of a shock. Plus Dublin supporters would be more respectful than most so after the odd tribute there’s nothing more left to be said.


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  • #42
    overshoot
    Registered Users Posts: 3,202 ✭✭✭overshoot


    Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »
    There's more soccer in Donegal than most counties.
    One of the 10 premier Division teams in the country, constantly provide Irish internationals but no soccer to decent level ?????

    McGuiness got Donegal to 3 AI finals and won 4 Ulsters (Inc u21) in 5 years when they hadn't even won a match in Ulster for a number of years or a senior Ulster title ever without mcEniff at the reigns. 2014 was the making of this Dublin team. Would have been great to see more duels between the 2 Jim's. McGuiness admitted Donegal overachieved in 2011 a development year and one up top was a mistake not to be repeated but most can't seem to get over that.

    Gavin certainly took the helm at an opportune time, the funding of underage structures over all the previous years coming through and Gilroy had got the AI monkey of the back but that doesn't mean he wasn't a great manager in terms of how prepared his team's were and the performances delieveres. To keep the team so consistently at the top and not let standards slip is an achievement in itself. You can only beat what's in front of you and Kerry never had the All Ireland dominance with a relatively easy path to the AI series too.

    Be very interesting to see how his successor does, who else may retire... And tbh I would like to see how he would do at another county, can anyone honestly say they wouldn't?


  • #43
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users Posts: 15,281 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Just now on RTÉ radio they played what was called a “very revealing” interview with a dublin board member (didn’t catch name)

    The interview was recorded in the man’s home last night.

    He said how JG pulled out of a team photo planned for thurs night and because of that the team photo had to be cancelled.

    Then he announces his retirement yest.

    the man in the interview kept emphasizing the shock but almost in a blase way saying they’ll get someone in place quickly and move on.

    He said there’ll be no big deal made of it and it will take a few mins to ring someone to replace JG. A slightly dismissive tone which I was surprised by.

    got the feeling he was “holding back” information for some reason.

    I wonder is there something more to this.

    Edit. Got the name. Sean Shanley


  • #44
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    Just now on RTÉ radio they played what was called a “very revealing” interview with a dublin board member (didn’t catch name)

    The interview was recorded in the man’s home last night.

    He said how JG pulled out of a team photo planned for thurs night and because of that the team photo had to be cancelled.

    Then he announces his retirement yest.

    the man in the interview kept emphasizing the shock but almost in a blase way saying they’ll get someone in place quickly and move on.

    He said there’ll be no big deal made of it and it will take a few mins to ring someone to replace JG. A slightly dismissive tone which I was surprised by.

    got the feeling he was “holding back” information for some reason.

    I wonder is there something more to this.

    Edit. Got the name. Sean Costello.

    You’re absolutely dying for there to be more to it anyway :D


  • #45
    munster87
    Registered Users Posts: 4,228 ✭✭✭munster87


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    Just now on RTÉ radio they played what was called a “very revealing” interview with a dublin board member (didn’t catch name)

    The interview was recorded in the man’s home last night.

    He said how JG pulled out of a team photo planned for thurs night and because of that the team photo had to be cancelled.

    Then he announces his retirement yest.

    the man in the interview kept emphasizing the shock but almost in a blase way saying they’ll get someone in place quickly and move on.

    He said there’ll be no big deal made of it and it will take a few mins to ring someone to replace JG. A slightly dismissive tone which I was surprised by.

    got the feeling he was “holding back” information for some reason.

    I wonder is there something more to this.

    Edit. Got the name. Sean Costello.

    Assuming it was John Costello. More to this? What more are you looking for?


  • #46
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users Posts: 15,281 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    It’s just very sudden. I’ve heard rumblings last year but nothing recent


  • #47
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    It’s just very sudden. I’ve heard rumblings last year but nothing recent

    Sudden? He has just completed something that no manager was ever able to achieve in the game before and is bowing out on a high as a winner and the greatest ever. It’s to be expected if anything, hardly sudden.


  • #48
    seligehgit
    Registered Users Posts: 9,286 ✭✭✭seligehgit


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    Just now on RTradio they played what was called a “very revealing” interview with a dublin board member (didn’t catch name)

    The interview was recorded in the man’s home last night.

    He said how JG pulled out of a team photo planned for thurs night and because of that the team photo had to be cancelled.

    Then he announces his retirement yest.

    the man in the interview kept emphasizing the shock but almost in a blase way saying they’ll get someone in place quickly and move on.

    He said there’ll be no big deal made of it and it will take a few mins to ring someone to replace JG. A slightly dismissive tone which I was surprised by.

    got the feeling he was “holding back” information for some reason.

    I wonder is there something more to this.

    Edit. Got the name. Sean Costello.

    I've listened to the Sean Shanley interview.

    RTE Radio 1 hyping it up as a revealing interview was not in context of some alternative backstory to Jim Gavin's departure.

    It more so to demonstrate the genuine shock suddeness of Jim Gavin's decision to leave.

    Many have mentioned there were many signals in the immediate aftermath of the All Ireland final that it might be his swansong.Like others I now speculate he left his departure so as to not take away from the 5 in a row achievement and make it about him.He's done it all and I am sure thought long and hard about his family commitments and his job as assistant director of the IAA.

    There was no blaseness in his mention of the process to replace him.

    There is a pre arranged management meeting next Monday night (pre the county convention in December) and then a county committee meeting where permission will be sought to talk to prospective candidates.No formal process.

    The phone call(s) were only mentioned in the context of confirming persons were interested in the position.

    He most definitely was not holding anything back.


  • #49
    moghrasa
    Registered Users Posts: 150 ✭✭moghrasa


    Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »
    There's more soccer in Donegal than most counties.
    Soccer is huge in east Donegal/Inishowen, and that’s where most of the people in the county live. Not to mention Finn Harps in Ballybofey, while they’re not great they’re still a premier division side, which is something most other counties wouldn’t have to contend with. It was a completely ignorant and unsubstantiated comment.


  • #50
    Nidgeweasel
    Registered Users Posts: 2,621 ✭✭✭Nidgeweasel


    spurshero wrote: »
    Revolutionised football lol . He turned most people off football . If he was a great manager he would have won another one in 2014 when an average kerry team by there standards beat them in final . Never get all this mcguinness love . He was manager of a big county where there no real rugby soccer or hurling played to a decent level . It’s not the loaves and fishes deal that some make it out to be .

    Donegal is a massive soccer county.

    And by any standard he (Jim) completely revolutionised the game.

    This thread is about Gavin, not McGuinness in any event. Trying to categorise somebody as the 'best ever' is tabloid / pub talk' there is no right or wrong and to be honest the whole thing is quite frankly boring.

    Gavin was an exceptional manager, as was McGuinness, as was Hate, as was Boylan, as was Micko etc etc etc.


  • #51
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,169 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Have to laugh at some of the stuff on this thread.

    Jim Gavin's team won five All-Irelands in a row, no other manager ever did that.
    Jim Gavin's team won 18 out of the first 21 major trophies in seven years, no other manager ever did that.
    Jim Gavin's team holds the record for the longest unbeaten run in championship and league, and in championship only, no other manager ever did that.

    That makes him the greatest manager of all time. No questions, no doubts. The statistics are too far above anyone else.

    If you case your mind back to the autumn of 2012, there would have been Cork, Tyrone, Mayo, Donegal and Kerry, who would have all been confident that they could win the next All-Ireland. No other era ever had that many competitors. They have all been beaten out of sight since.


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  • #52
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users Posts: 15,281 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    3 days since anyone posted on this thread

    That says a lot

    I have a good few county board contacts

    All I can say at the moment is watch this space.

    More to come.


  • #53
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,712 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    3 days since anyone posted on this thread

    That says a lot

    I have a good few county board contacts

    All I can say at the moment is watch this space.

    More to come.

    What country board though?


  • #54
    seligehgit
    Registered Users Posts: 9,286 ✭✭✭seligehgit


    Beechwoodspark wrote: »
    3 days since anyone posted on this thread

    That says a lot

    I have a good few county board contacts

    All I can say at the moment is watch this space.

    More to come.

    Mod Warning

    Please quit the trolling


  • #55
    munster87
    Registered Users Posts: 4,228 ✭✭✭munster87


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Have to laugh at some of the stuff on this thread.

    Jim Gavin's team won five All-Irelands in a row, no other manager ever did that.
    Jim Gavin's team won 18 out of the first 21 major trophies in seven years, no other manager ever did that.
    Jim Gavin's team holds the record for the longest unbeaten run in championship and league, and in championship only, no other manager ever did that.

    That makes him the greatest manager of all time. No questions, no doubts. The statistics are too far above anyone else.

    If you case your mind back to the autumn of 2012, there would have been Cork, Tyrone, Mayo, Donegal and Kerry, who would have all been confident that they could win the next All-Ireland. No other era ever had that many competitors. They have all been beaten out of sight since.

    It’s all relative I suppose. I would say winning 8 All Ireland’s and then going to two other counties and managing to win provincial titles after no title in 42 years (Kildare) and 57 years (Laois) takes someone special. Micko has as much of an argument as Gavin in my eyes if not more.


  • #56
    castletownman
    Registered Users Posts: 11,009 ✭✭✭✭castletownman


    Jim and Micko are without doubt in the top two, but what I think shades it for Micko is the strength of the team's he faced during the same era. You had the best ever Dublin team before this one came around and the best ever Offaly team (a cult classic) that obviously came back to beat them in 1982. To win eight All Irelands between 1975-1986 (and no back-door) was some going.

    Compare that to this era. How many counties can claim to have had their strongest group? Donegal certainly, who of course were the only team to have beaten Gavin. Mayo perhaps, but no backbone when it matters. This version of Tyrone cannot hold a candle to the 00s team. Kerry should develop into a top team, but aren't there yet. All the other traditional footballing counties have regressed.

    I understand that this Dublin team have won a few AI's by a single point, and were brought to two replays, and that's a feather in Gavin's cap as he has them drilled to the nth degree. Don't want to bring the elephant in the room into the debate, but that clearly helps too.

    So while both their feats will never be seen again, I am of the belief that Micko just shades as he was up against stronger teams than Gavin.


  • #57
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,169 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    castletownman wrote: »
    Jim and Micko are without doubt in the top two, but what I think shades it for Micko is the strength of the team's he faced during the same era. You had the best ever Dublin team before this one came around and the best ever Offaly team (a cult classic) that obviously came back to beat them in 1982. To win eight All Irelands between 1975-1986 (and no back-door) was some going.

    Compare that to this era. How many counties can claim to have had their strongest group? Donegal certainly, who of course were the only team to have beaten Gavin. Mayo perhaps, but no backbone when it matters. This version of Tyrone cannot hold a candle to the 00s team. Kerry should develop into a top team, but aren't there yet. All the other traditional footballing counties have regressed.

    I understand that this Dublin team have won a few AI's by a single point, and were brought to two replays, and that's a feather in Gavin's cap as he has them drilled to the nth degree. Don't want to bring the elephant in the room into the debate, but that clearly helps too.

    So while both their feats will never be seen again, I am of the belief that Micko just shades as he was up against stronger teams than Gavin.


    I disagree.

    You go back to autumn 2012, and there were a lot of counties - Mayo, Donegal, Cork, Kerry and Tyrone, even Monaghan - who would have all thought that they had a chance of winning the 2013 All-Ireland championship. All six, plus Cavan and Dublin featured in the 2013 All-Ireland quarter-finals. That wasn't the case in spring of 1975, when only Dublin, and maybe Galway might have had strong thoughts about an All-Ireland win.

    Dublin have crushed the hopes and dreams of all those teams over the next seven years, with six All-Ireland titles. That Kerry team couldn't win six in seven years with only one team to beat during that time - they never had to face both Dublin and Offaly, thanks to there being no back door (Arguably, a Dublin team coming through the backdoor in 1981 could have prevented the four-in-a-row, as that was a rebuild that needed matches to learn). One of their All-Irelands took them three games to win, several others only four. Dublin have played 5 games in the All-Ireland series alone for the last two years.

    It is a display of dominance over so many teams that hasn't been seen before, and will not be seen again.


  • #58
    slegs
    Registered Users Posts: 3,004 ✭✭✭slegs


    castletownman wrote: »
    Jim and Micko are without doubt in the top two, but what I think shades it for Micko is the strength of the team's he faced during the same era. You had the best ever Dublin team before this one came around and the best ever Offaly team (a cult classic) that obviously came back to beat them in 1982. To win eight All Irelands between 1975-1986 (and no back-door) was some going.

    Compare that to this era. How many counties can claim to have had their strongest group? Donegal certainly, who of course were the only team to have beaten Gavin. Mayo perhaps, but no backbone when it matters. This version of Tyrone cannot hold a candle to the 00s team. Kerry should develop into a top team, but aren't there yet. All the other traditional footballing counties have regressed.

    I understand that this Dublin team have won a few AI's by a single point, and were brought to two replays, and that's a feather in Gavin's cap as he has them drilled to the nth degree. Don't want to bring the elephant in the room into the debate, but that clearly helps too.

    So while both their feats will never be seen again, I am of the belief that Micko just shades as he was up against stronger teams than Gavin.

    Football is a faster game now needing greater skills and better physicality / performance levels. Arguments that Kerry played against better teams in the Micko days are just nonsense. For all we know Mayo, Donegal etc of today could beat all the teams of back then making Gavin's achievement even greater.

    Jim Gavin won the magical 5 in a row and is clearly the greatest and most successful manager of all time. His legend will only increase with time as with Micko.


  • #59
    lillielad
    Registered Users Posts: 204 ✭✭lillielad


    Great manager but honestly are we allowed to mention financial advantages...


  • #60
    gaffer91
    Registered Users Posts: 1,150 ✭✭✭gaffer91


    lillielad wrote: »
    Great manager but honestly are we allowed to mention financial advantages...

    Mentioning the financial advantages is frowned upon- The Dublin GAA secretary was complaining about the media mentioning them last week.

    Here is a good, albeit highly repetitive detailing Dublin's unfair advantages compared to any other county and how those advantages help them to achieve success.
    blanch152 wrote: »
    Have to laugh at some of the stuff on this thread.

    Jim Gavin's team won five All-Irelands in a row, no other manager ever did that.
    Jim Gavin's team won 18 out of the first 21 major trophies in seven years, no other manager ever did that.
    Jim Gavin's team holds the record for the longest unbeaten run in championship and league, and in championship only, no other manager ever did that.

    That makes him the greatest manager of all time. No questions, no doubts. The statistics are too far above anyone else.

    There are questions, and doubts. The big question is "Would he have achieved a similar level of success without the funding and other advantages?".

    He's done well, for sure, but correctly judging his legacy is very hard because of these issues.

    The best way he could can truly test his mettle is by taking a county without these advantages and seeing what success he can have.


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  • #61
    Beechwoodspark
    Registered Users Posts: 15,281 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    Certain issues regarding dublin GAA are not supposed to be mentioned. Frowned upon even.


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