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packed buses...

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  • 06-02-2018 10:56pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 4,793 ✭✭✭


    Noticed this piece on the Journal today:

    Packed buses are driving past angry morning commuters - but what can Dublin Bus do?

    "DUBLIN BUS HAS said it will 'continuously review' demand for services amid the capital's ongoing traffic issues and an increased number of commuters travelling into the city.

    The start of the new year and the implementation of the new Luas Cross City has seen frequent jams in some areas and changes have already been introduced to help alleviate problems.

    But other issues have been identified by commuters, such as trams and buses being full to capacity and unable to stop for waiting passengers."

    http://www.thejournal.ie/dublin-bus-traffic-commuters-3829070-Feb2018/

    It is something I'd noticed on the various "39/37" etc routes, getting worse over the past year or so and affecting in to city/out of city directions during the "rush 3 - 4 hours" in morning and evening.

    On way out of the city centre, by 1st stop on the quays, buses are full to bursting between about 4 pm and up to 7 pm. Considered moaning about it somewhere (Dublin Bus, TII, NTA, politicians??) but whats the point? Probably even more of a waste of time than sending words out into the void on here.

    Who am I fooling, cattle don't get to complain, pay up like a good mug + squeeze on...plenty of room down the back! Anyway have others had such issues with other bus routes or is the article nonsense?


«134

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 263 ✭✭eet fuk


    On yer bike


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,785 ✭✭✭thomasj


    fly_agaric wrote:
    It is something I'd noticed on the various "39/37" etc routes, getting worse over the past year or so and affecting in to city/out of city directions during the "rush 3 - 4 hours" in morning and evening.

    Yeah the usual this evening after 7pm 37 flying past on the quays full same with the 39a. The next bus that came just about enough space for us.

    Another thing that has cropped up is DBs definition of the morning peak. Even if you look at dublins recent announcements for extra morning peak hour buses it was for between 7am - 8am?

    Certainly on my route 39a the route is very busy right up to after 9am.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,793 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    thomasj wrote: »
    Yeah the usual this evening after 7pm 37 flying past on the quays full same with the 39a. The next bus that came just about enough space for us...

    yes, was quite bad this evening, which prompted the post also. Overloads (or just very heavy loads) of passengers on these routes do seem (to me) to be getting more frequent, and also occurring during a longer time window than they used to in the past.
    On yer bike
    Maybe next new years' resolution.
    Lord make me chaste but not just yet.


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,154 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    A good step might be to limit use of free travel by elderly to off peak times like it was originally.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    There was an increase of fleet size in Dublin Bus at the end of 2017 by approx 30 buses to be used for increasing the reliability of existing services to reduce the likelihood of dropped laps by increasing running time on some services, as well as adding extra timetabled departures on a number of routes.

    So far this year we've seen enhancements on 33b, 33d, 44, 44b, 65 and 65b in the first half of January, whilst in the last week or two we've seen the same on route 9, 15, 25a, 25b, 26, 46a, 66 and 67 and substantial increases of service levels on the 140 which were implemented this weekend.

    There is said to be more changes to be made in the coming weeks for a number of other routes, including the extension of route 40D to Hollystown, a new route from Finglas to Broombridge and some increases on cross city routes but bills have to be agreed and approved with unions before these can happen and appropriate notice given.

    In addition, by the end of the year the total number of vehicles used on the routes operated by Dublin Bus at present will increase from approx 1000 to over 1100 which should allow for substantial increases in capacity.

    Also it's likely that a number of the current issues are not helped by the issues with the new LUAS line.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Seen it happen pretty frequently on the 747. Tourists yelling as the bus sails past.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,993 ✭✭✭Mongfinder General


    devnull wrote: »
    There was an increase of fleet size in Dublin Bus at the end of 2017 by approx 30 buses to be used for increasing the reliability of existing services to reduce the likelihood of dropped laps by increasing running time on some services, as well as adding extra timetabled departures on a number of routes.

    So far this year we've seen enhancements on 33b, 33d, 44, 44b, 65 and 65b in the first half of January, whilst in the last week or two we've seen the same on route 9, 15, 25a, 25b, 26, 46a, 66 and 67 and substantial increases of service levels on the 140 which were implemented this weekend.

    There is said to be more changes to be made in the coming weeks for a number of other routes, including the extension of route 40D to Hollystown, a new route from Finglas to Broombridge and some increases on cross city routes but bills have to be agreed and approved with unions before these can happen and appropriate notice given.

    In addition, by the end of the year the total number of vehicles used on the routes operated by Dublin Bus at present will increase from approx 1000 to over 1100 which should allow for substantial increases in capacity.

    The Finglas to Broombridge service is utter nonsense. It takes commuters on a detour through tolka valley to connect with a tram in broombridge. It would be quicker just going to town via the old finglas Road


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Seen it happen pretty frequently on the 747. Tourists yelling as the bus sails past.

    Should take that one up with Dublin Bus since it's a commercial route, whilst there are other options that serve the airport such as the 16/41/700/702/703/757 that all overlap to some degree with the 747.
    The Finglas to Broombridge service is utter nonsense. It takes commuters on a detour through tolka valley to connect with a tram in broombridge. It would be quicker just going to town via the old finglas Road

    Has the route that the bus is going to take been officially confirmed yet? I've seen a lot of speculation but I've not seen anything official from either the NTA or Dublin Bus in relation to this.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 345 ✭✭bebeman


    "Asked whether Dublin Bus has the freedom to add more buses to a route if demand is there, the NTA said a process is in place where such an application can be made.

    “Basically, the situation is that they’re (Dublin Bus) under contract with the NTA, they’re the providers, they’re contracted to us. If they want to vary the conditions of the contract, they put a formal process to us and we would consider it and make a detention as to whether it goes ahead or not,” O’Gara explains."

    What have i posted here before?
    DB cant put extra buses on without the permission of the NTA, and here it proof from the horses mouth.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    I don't think anyone disputed that Dublin Bus cannot change the timetable themselves without permission of the NTA.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19 hardanro


    No, the article is not non-sense.
    On finglas road, between 7:30 and 9 no buses are stopping (nevermind travelling like a cattle - you're lucky if you actually can get on a bus). And this is with all the bragging about new bragged increase service levels on 140, which didn't bring any improvement this week.
    And, if the problem wasn't bad enough, 1 in 3 buses don't even turn up.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 345 ✭✭bebeman


    devnull wrote: »
    I don't think anyone disputed that Dublin Bus cannot change the timetable themselves without permission of the NTA.

    No mention of timetable anywhere.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    hardanro wrote: »
    No, the article is not non-sense.
    On finglas road, between 7:30 and 9 no buses are stopping (nevermind travelling like a cattle - you're lucky if you actually can get on a bus). And this is with all the bragging about new bragged increase service levels on 140, which didn't bring any improvement this week.
    And, if the problem wasn't bad enough, 1 in 3 buses don't even turn up.

    Certainly there are issues in some routes at certain times of the day - but I find it hard to believe the claim that the 40/40D/140 are not able to stop for an entire 90 minute period on Finglas Road - I have used those routes in morning peak in the last few weeks and whilst there are some heavily loaded buses, there are also a good number with spare capacity too when taking all three routes into consideration.

    If buses are not running in early morning peak, presumably on their first journey after leaving Harristown, then this would indicate an operational issue on the side of Dublin Bus since these buses would start their day in the garage and then go direct to the 40/140/40D terminus and then operate out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19 hardanro


    A tweet from this morning:

    https://twitter.com/dublinbusnews/status/960795528303964160

    I was also at the bus stop (Ardmore Hotel) around 8 am. There was already 15 people waiting and more coming. After the first 2 buses didn't stop (40D & 140) I realized that the situation will only get worse so I walk up the road.
    I managed to get on a bus at 8:30 in Finglas village. The bus didn't stop to pick up other passengers until St Vincent School.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    bebeman wrote: »
    "Asked whether Dublin Bus has the freedom to add more buses to a route if demand is there, the NTA said a process is in place where such an application can be made.

    “Basically, the situation is that they’re (Dublin Bus) under contract with the NTA, they’re the providers, they’re contracted to us. If they want to vary the conditions of the contract, they put a formal process to us and we would consider it and make a detention as to whether it goes ahead or not,” O’Gara explains."

    What have i posted here before?
    DB cant put extra buses on without the permission of the NTA, and here it proof from the horses mouth.

    It's of interest that the NTA put's it's PR Guru out to bat when dealing with this issue.

    An indication perhaps,of how it percieves the situation internally ?

    Get over the Term-Time hump and all will subside,effective PR management can make black appear white in due course.

    A quick witted reporter,might have asked Mr O'Gara to expand a bit on the meaning of the term "formal process",particularly in terms of time frame and available resources.

    Guess we'll have to wait for a bit more time yet ?


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    devnull wrote: »
    Should take that one up with Dublin Bus since it's a commercial route, whilst there are other options that serve the airport such as the 16/41/700/702/703/757 that all overlap to some degree with the 747.
    Yeah it's never an issue with the 757.
    Im sure dublin bus is aware if it. Plenty of Google reviews of the 747 Airlink stating that the bus didn't stop and just drove past. One issue is that some drivers stop picking up passengers when the luggage rack is full - probably a h&s thing but still irritating for those left at the stop!


  • Registered Users Posts: 453 ✭✭pclive


    The new bus route is to link Tyrrelstown to Broombridge via Finglas West


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 15,662 Mod ✭✭✭✭dfx-


    The whole plan for the Bus Network since 2009 is to do as much as possible with as little resources as possible. And we are still pretending it can work because there is no adapting from this policy.

    Network Direct, which is the network we are all still working off, was designed to cut resources and it did it by joining routes together. So it joined random routes together into super long routes that don't work. And we are working this network with new buses, but lower capacity buses because ten years ago, there was a need to reduce capacity.

    Then there's fuel economy (more cost concerns), environmental concerns, war on staff costs, tendering process (which is actually about lowering said costs, not customer consideration) before you get near concerns of customers or passengers.

    There's no sign of the overarching and flawed principle of pushing resources to beyond breaking point going away. We are going to pretend it just needs tweaking.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    hardanro wrote: »
    A tweet from this morning:

    https://twitter.com/dublinbusnews/status/960795528303964160

    I was also at the bus stop (Ardmore Hotel) around 8 am. There was already 15 people waiting and more coming. After the first 2 buses didn't stop (40D & 140) I realized that the situation will only get worse so I walk up the road.
    I managed to get on a bus at 8:30 in Finglas village. The bus didn't stop to pick up other passengers until St Vincent School.

    The new timetable on the 140 should have helped somewhat because since the timetable refresh there has been an extra bus added in AM Peak ex Finglas which has increased the frequency to every 8 minutes between 0655 and 0815

    There is talk of further changes to the 40 group of routes in the coming weeks, subject to union approval on rosters, including a new route to Broombridge that should hopefully free up some capacity on the 40/40D/140 as it's likely that people taking local journeys will in part switch to this route.
    Yeah it's never an issue with the 757.
    Im sure dublin bus is aware if it. Plenty of Google reviews of the 747 Airlink stating that the bus didn't stop and just drove past. One issue is that some drivers stop picking up passengers when the luggage rack is full - probably a h&s thing but still irritating for those left at the stop!

    I would simply vote with my feet - there are no shortage of services that serve the airport and if the 757 route is not suitable than consider the Aircoach services since the price is either the same or similar depending on where you are traveling from.
    AlekSmart wrote: »
    It's of interest that the NTA put's it's PR Guru out to bat when dealing with this issue.

    An indication perhaps,of how it percieves the situation internally ?

    PR people experienced and recruited to deal with the press, dealing with the press, who'd have thought they would actually be doing their job? ;)
    dfx- wrote: »
    The whole plan for the Bus Network since 2009 is to do as much as possible with as little resources as possible. And we are still pretending it can work because there is no adapting from this policy.

    Network Direct, which is the network we are all still working off, was designed to cut resources and it did it by joining routes together. So it joined random routes together into super long routes that don't work.

    I'm by no means a fan of Network Direct, what they did to the 4 was terrible to the point that passengers completely abandoned this when Dublin Bus simply didn't care about that and many passengers like myself stopped using it, but on some other corridors there was massive oversupply of services and duplication which was not sustainable with non clockface timetables, similar services that were departing at the same time and then big gaps.

    However I too am not totally convinced by these ultra-long cross city routes - certainly there was a need to improve the route network than it was before and properly co-ordinate timetables, but some of the routes are far too long and that has an impact on reliability and it's something that I hope BusConnects can address, as the noises made at the start are certainly promising in this respect but the proof will be in the pudding.
    And we are working this network with new buses, but lower capacity buses because ten years ago, there was a need to reduce capacity.

    The new buses have been able to coax people out of their cars because they offer a nicer environment that has helped shed in part the image that Dublin Bus has in the past with sitting next to someone smelly on the same seat with leaky windows, whilst also being able to provide WIFI, on bus information and also more lately USB Sockets. Sure to you and me we'd use a bus without these but there is part of the population who won't and a more modern fleet is part of the reason we're seeing a modal shift to public transport in the last few years.

    Having two sets of doors can really decrease journey times and allow buses to complete their laps of a route faster by virtually eliminating dwell time, which is a massive problem in Dublin which will in turn increase the capacity provided per hour on many routes with the same amount of buses. However the problem is whilst we have the vehicles in Dublin for this at the moment to greatly improve these things we don't yet have the fare, revenue protection system or the operating environment which means we see nothing like the benefits that they can bring.
    Then there's fuel economy (more cost concerns), environmental concerns, war on staff costs, tendering process (which is actually about lowering said costs, not customer consideration) before you get near concerns of customers or passengers.

    There's no sign of the overarching and flawed principle of pushing resources to beyond breaking point going away. We are going to pretend it just needs tweaking.

    I am supportive of the tendering program because no monopoly I have ever seen has been the most efficient or customer focused operation because they simply don't have to be. Hopefully it will shed some of the more outdated working practices from Dublin Bus and make it easier to introduce late running services rather than being blocked by unions and also making it easier to adjust timetables rather than having long drawn out processes where a timetable is created but it takes months to go live because of union disagreement on rosters.

    Personally I think increasing the Dublin City bus fleet by over 130 buses in little over 12 months is a sizable increase and as the year goes on we should start to see the fruits of that, we've seen the start of that already, but of course there is still more that needs to be done and will be done as the year goes on based on the plans that are there.

    Also you have to bear in mind that a sizable percentage of the current issues are related to the LUAS Cross City project being completed and traffic issues in the city center and Dublin City Council's ineptitude.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,205 ✭✭✭✭hmmm


    The madness of our low rise suburban sprawl is coming home to roost. Even now, city planners are greenlighting Clonburris, a new city effectively of 26,000 people in the middle of nowhere suburb-wise, with barely a mention as to how these people are supposed to get to their places of work.

    Even if they open the Kishogue railway station, the trains going past are already full. The M50 is at capacity. The buses leaving Lucan are full at rush hour, and the new LUAS has meant their commute times are absurd.

    Aside from Clonburris, we have far flung suburbs like Cherrywood due to see thousands of new homes, all of which will be feeding into an already busy LUAS. Good luck getting on further down the line. We are building endless numbers of high rise apartments in places like Ballymun & Finglas, and the city centre stays resolutely low-rise for the most part.

    It's complete madness, and we know it's complete madness, but we seem to do nothing about it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,101 ✭✭✭Technocentral


    The 40s (a,b,d) and 140 on Finglas Road (opposite Prospect Hill) Apartments are a disaster in the morning 3-4 go past packed between say 7.25 - 8.50. Needs to be way more of these especially 140s. If there are 3 people at the stop could be 20 - 25 by time next bus comes, no respect for queing so people who arrived late getting on before people waiting 15 - 20 minutes, infuriating.

    Edit: Just seen posts above talking about same.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,101 ✭✭✭Technocentral


    The Finglas to Broombridge service is utter nonsense. It takes commuters on a detour through tolka valley to connect with a tram in broombridge. It would be quicker just going to town via the old finglas Road


    Its impossible to get on a bus in peak morning time there though, that’s the only reason people would get a bus to Luas, anyway Broombridge Trams are packed in the morning so will need to be v frequent to take extra load from those feeder buses. 


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    hmmm wrote: »
    The madness of our low rise suburban sprawl is coming home to roost. Even now, city planners are greenlighting Clonburris, a new city effectively of 26,000 people in the middle of nowhere suburb-wise, with barely a mention as to how these people are supposed to get to their places of work.

    Even if they open the Kishogue railway station, the trains going past are already full. The M50 is at capacity. The buses leaving Lucan are full at rush hour, and the new LUAS has meant their commute times are absurd.

    Aside from Clonburris, we have far flung suburbs like Cherrywood due to see thousands of new homes, all of which will be feeding into an already busy LUAS. Good luck getting on further down the line. We are building endless numbers of high rise apartments in places like Ballymun & Finglas, and the city centre stays resolutely low-rise for the most part.

    It's complete madness, and we know it's complete madness, but we seem to do nothing about it.

    Indeed when inner suburbs like Terenure, Templelogue, Clontarf, Cabra, Clonkeagh, Glasnevin and around UCD are full of low density d's and semi d's. Most of these places are choked with traffic aswell due to people driving to places which are far out from the city centre with little public transport priority.

    Most European are planned with the city centre and inner suburbs being high density apartments and areas further out near the ring road being predominantly industrial estates and big box retailers.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,586 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    The 40s (a,b,d) and 140 on Finglas Road (opposite Prospect Hill) Apartments are a disaster in the morning 3-4 go past packed between say 7.25 - 8.50. Needs to be way more of these especially 140s. If there are 3 people at the stop could be 20 - 25 by time next bus comes, no respect for queing so people who arrived late getting on before people waiting 15 - 20 minutes, infuriating.

    There has been a new timetable implemented this week which sees the 140 frequency now up to every 8 minutes between 06:55 and 08:15 which is an improvement on the old timetable which was only every 10-15 minutes between 06:50 and 07:35 - so additional capacity has been deployed - the 140 is now at 69 times a day ex Finglas compared to 62 previously.

    However it's understood that there is a new schedule drawn up for the 40/40A/40B/40D group of routes which may add additional capacity, subject to the new rosters being approved by the unions which should hopefully help further.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭sharper


    One annoying issue is the realtime tracker will (sort of) tell you when a bus is due but not whether you can actually get on it.

    If a bus is skipping stops it would be nice if the tracking indicated this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 812 ✭✭✭adam240610


    Trying to get the 84x is nigh impossible to get home from around the UCD region after 6, always about twenty people waiting for it but they never stop.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    bebeman wrote: »
    No mention of timetable anywhere.

    The greatest Irish works of fiction are Ulysses, The Picture of Dorian Grey and the Dublin Bus Timetables.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    hmmm wrote: »
    The madness of our low rise suburban sprawl is coming home to roost. Even now, city planners are greenlighting Clonburris, a new city effectively of 26,000 people in the middle of nowhere suburb-wise, with barely a mention as to how these people are supposed to get to their places of work.

    Even if they open the Kishogue railway station, the trains going past are already full. The M50 is at capacity. The buses leaving Lucan are full at rush hour, and the new LUAS has meant their commute times are absurd.

    Aside from Clonburris, we have far flung suburbs like Cherrywood due to see thousands of new homes, all of which will be feeding into an already busy LUAS. Good luck getting on further down the line. We are building endless numbers of high rise apartments in places like Ballymun & Finglas, and the city centre stays resolutely low-rise for the most part.

    It's complete madness, and we know it's complete madness, but we seem to do nothing about it.
    its truly depressing. Not only is there no end in sight but there are also no moves afoot to address the issue


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Arcade_Tryer


    hmmm wrote: »
    It's complete madness, and we know it's complete madness, but we seem to do nothing about it.
    Nonsense. The vocal minority who support height restrictions and oppose developments because of heritage know what is best for the rest of us.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,785 ✭✭✭thomasj


    Got to the quays for a 39a tonight at 20.15. one arrived at 21.00

    Just missed a 39, and stupidly turned down the next one as it said 39a in 1 minute (more like 10)

    Of course the 39a was packed the whole way back to blanch.


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