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family crest

  • 14-12-2009 12:33am
    #1
    jap gt
    Registered Users Posts: 1,896 ✭✭✭


    hope i have the right place, on looking at my family crest, depending on the site i look at, the colours on the crest vary, are the colours important, could some one point the way to how it should look, its the twomey family crest


Comments

  • #2
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Moved to Genealogy.


  • #3
    Simarillion
    Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭Simarillion


    This is a very common problem and misconception.

    While I don't want to put a stop to your search, there is no such thing as the Twomey Family Crest!
    Heraldic Coats of Arms are granted to indiviuals primarily or often attached to an heriditary title. Many individuals within the same family can have a completely different coat of arms.

    This is specifically noted on the College of Arms website (GB) and you can also search on the website of the Chief Herald of Ireland.

    More to the point, the use of entire families of one specific coat of arms is rare, and usually consists of the use of a coat of arms granted originally to the title holder.

    More specifically to your situation, the existence of a coat of arms for Irish families, like that of Scotland is even less probable. The closest you might find would be that of the Twomey Clan colours, but Twomey is not one of the clans recognised by The Standing Council of Irish Chiefs and Chieftains (disbanded in 2003), so existence of a record of those would be unlikely.

    Sorry if this is very downputting!


  • #4
    lala stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 369 ✭✭lala stone


    Simarillion wrote: »
    This is a very common problem and misconception.

    While I don't want to put a stop to your search, there is no such thing as the Twomey Family Crest!
    Heraldic Coats of Arms are granted to indiviuals primarily or often attached to an heriditary title. Many individuals within the same family can have a completely different coat of arms.

    This is specifically noted on the College of Arms website (GB) and you can also search on the website of the Chief Herald of Ireland.

    More to the point, the use of entire families of one specific coat of arms is rare, and usually consists of the use of a coat of arms granted originally to the title holder.

    More specifically to your situation, the existence of a coat of arms for Irish families, like that of Scotland is even less probable. The closest you might find would be that of the Twomey Clan colours, but Twomey is not one of the clans recognised by The Standing Council of Irish Chiefs and Chieftains (disbanded in 2003), so existence of a record of those would be unlikely.

    Sorry if this is very downputting!
    so I know someone in my family has one made up.,, how do you know if its the official one?


  • #5
    Simarillion
    Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭Simarillion


    lala stone wrote: »
    so I know someone in my family has one made up.,, how do you know if its the official one?

    Well it's probable they either went on to the thousands of websites out there or into a shop somewhere that also does them. What this usually consists of is a coat of arms (usually just a crest and arms and rarely supporters) that was bestowed upon someone. Say your name is Jones and at some stage a chap called Jones was knighted or honoured with his own coat of arms. The website will usually provide this as the "Jones Family Crest" even though it officially belongs to him and only denotes him as an individual.

    Official coat of arms can only come from a few places, namely;

    The College of Arms (covering England, Wales, Ulster, and most of the Commonwealth)
    The Court of the Lord Lyon (covering Scotland)
    Office of the Chief Herald of Ireland (covering the Republic)
    Canadian Heraldic Authority (Canada)
    Bureau of Heraldry (South Africa)

    Anyone can petition for the creation of a coat of arms. There is a cost, but you are not "buying" the arms, just paying the heralds and design staff for their work. To do this you apply to, the Earl Marshal (hereditary position of the Dukes of Norfolk), the Chief Herald of Ireland (Mr. Fergus Gillespie) or the Lord Lyon King of Arms (Mr. David Sellar).

    If it came from one of these places it should be pretty obvious somewhere on the document where it came from. (not real if there is a website attached to it!)


  • #6
    lala stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 369 ✭✭lala stone


    Great thank you for the detailed response!!


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  • #7
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Exactly what I was going to reply, Silmarillion.

    If your family has genuine arms granted at some point in the past, the chances are you'll know about it already.

    One extra point, Fergus Gillespie retired last month and there are apparently no plans to replace him. This may mean an end to the granting of arms in the Republic.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • #8
    Simarillion
    Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭Simarillion


    I thought I had heard that somewhere pinkypinky.

    I know that the Office of the Chief Herald of Ireland, is in a bit of a todo as regards the legality of its existence.

    Granting of arms is a Royal prerogative, in this case of the British Crown, and as such nobody is sure whether this passed to the Irish State when it became independant. As it remained a member of the Commonwealth, then legally during this period, the prerogative would have remained under the auspices of the Ulster King of Arms (within the College of Arms) but since 1943 it was simply transferred to an irish governmental department (first Education, now Arts & Sport etc.)


    It gets even stickier when you fling the Dev's constitution, which prohibts the bestowing of titles of nobility on citizens, but does not mention honours. It then prohibits us from accepting any titles or honours (though this has been waived a few times).
    BUT it does recognise the titles granted by the Crown upon Irish families (i.e Irish hereditary peers) and also certain Clans of Ireland.

    As you say the granting of arms may come ot a halt similar to the he Standing Council of Irish Chiefs and Chieftains


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