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Garden Drainage: Start to finish

124

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,834 ✭✭✭Sonnenblumen


    W.B. Yeats wrote: »
    Folks

    Typical Dublin housing estate garden- water logged in winter and usually dry in the summer when there is good weather but it can take a good while to dry out when it rains.

    WE have a dog though and it makes it hard on the drying as he runs up and down the garden. currently the 5 foot at the bottom of the garden is just in muck, all the grass is gone. Result is he drags in the muck into the house which isn't good for hygiene with a young baby crawling around.

    There is also a drain cover in the middle of the garden- think its a sewer that's underneath

    Now I reckon there is a drainage issue of some sort, I don't have the time, or the skill to build this French drain solution myself and think that grass might be a no no anyway with the dog.
    So a few questions:

    1. If I went for the drainage with the French drains is there some ultra tough wearing grass that could tolerate a dog? Typically how much would this cost to get a landscaper or gardener to do ( garden is probably 18 feet by 30 feet) ? Any recommendations in Dublin?

    2. Is there another option of putting down gravel or some sort of loose pebble in the garden that would get us over the drainage issue without having to dig the drains? Would I have to dig up the grass, put down some sort of membrane over the soil before putting down gravel? How much would this cost? Any recommendations?

    Sorry for the 20 questions but I need a solution that isn't mad expensive and that I can get done in the next few weeks.


    I don't think french drains and/or mini soak pits are feasible solutions for small urban gardens or gravel gardens are practical for young children etc etc. A far better but long lasting option would be to replace grass with synthetic lawn. Ground prep similar to installing a patio and you will have a grass like durable finish that would be both weather and dog proof all year round, plus a nice soft green surface on which the younfg baby etc can sit on etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,462 ✭✭✭HardyEustace


    I don't think french drains and/or mini soak pits are feasible solutions for small urban gardens or gravel gardens are practical for young children etc etc.

    Not being argumentative S, but just wondering why you think this?

    I hadn't even considered french drains (or known what they were) until a weeks ago when I started to read through older posts to get information on the garden.

    I was planning on some for mine, though it's small 5x10m2, there's a substantial slope and I'm worried about drainage in the bottom corner as the gate is there

    Links to pictures in other post


  • Registered Users Posts: 621 ✭✭✭Barack Obama


    Would one of these help to dig the trench? This could be make or break for those of us that aren't exactly fit ;)

    http://www.hss.com/g/62516/Power-Digger-Petrol.html


  • Registered Users Posts: 32 Waffle


    Hi,
    I have a small amount of 4" drainage pipe to give away. I guess its around 25m in length. Ideal for a small garden.
    North Dublin.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,295 ✭✭✭Joe10000


    I dont know if resurrecting old threads such as this is allowed but I am about to start this very same project but on a much larger scale. My question for now is about the plastic membrane being used, does it not prevent the rain water from reaching the perforated pipe ?


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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 7,638 Mod ✭✭✭✭delly


    Its not actually plastic, its the same type of material that you would put in a flowerbed to stop weeds from growing, so the water goes through without any problem.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,295 ✭✭✭Joe10000


    delly wrote: »
    Its not actually plastic, its the same type of material that you would put in a flowerbed to stop weeds from growing, so the water goes through without any problem.

    Ok thanks Delly, that explains it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 406 ✭✭ponddigger


    hi all'great thread from start to finish.looking a small garden with the same drainage problem as on the thread.with all the water going into the soakpit.should i try one thees well system:Dponddigger :Dhttp://www.fdungan.com/well.htm .ps it would cost about 200 e for materials


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,561 ✭✭✭quad_red


    Just wanna say, a really informative and fantastic thread. This is exactly what needs to be done to sort out the garden of our new house.

    Thanks OP!


  • Registered Users Posts: 44 Gairdin nua


    Hi Reckless, what a lovely transformation. I love the wall you have made around the decking area and wondered if the stone is expensive or what should I ask for to get that type of wall built. Looks fairly common sense approach, a block wall with stone facing but dont have those skills so will be at the mercy of the tradesmen. Is it a specialist thing or can any reasonable builder do it?


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  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 7,638 Mod ✭✭✭✭delly


    Just a note to say the original hosting of the images used in post 1 expired, so I have dug pictures out that best match what I had typed, although they may be slightly different.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,259 ✭✭✭positron


    positron wrote: »
    Excellent thread, pics etc Delly, I am going to give it a go myself! Looking forward to the latest pic.

    I commented that back in 2007 and yesterday I broke ground.. (and possibly my back :o )

    As background, I am not far from Delly (possibly a different housing estate on Dublin Road, I am guessing), and after the recent house extension, patio and new block shed etc, I am left with about 25 square meters of grass to sort out. It's been a bit wet and mucky and now with the run off from the shed roof and new patio, I have standing water at the back of this small patch of garden.

    396649.jpg

    General plan is like this:

    * Dig a soakaway to the left of where the gymball is in that photo.
    * Fill it with beer crates / something like that, cover it with weed barrier type membrane and fill small stones around it.
    * Trench and perforated pipe along the back, full width of the garden, should take shed's roof water into soakaway as well as any water that naturally collects there.
    * May be two more piples, like a V from the the two front corners to the soakaway

    Yesterday Mrs P and I dug a 120 cm x 80 cm x 1 meter deep pit. There was a layer that needed pick axe to get thru, but it wasn't as hard as I had seen while digging foundations for the shed or the extension. Once past that layer, soil turned kinda sandy but worryingly very wet as well. I am starting to wonder if I have dug myself a reverse-soakaway, that is, a well! :eek:

    396650.jpg

    Filled about 2 inches of water into this 1 meter deep pit last night, and 14 hours later, it still has 2 inches of water... I am starting to get worried if drainage project will turn into a ...koi pond? :o Any thoughts? Should I go deeper?


  • Registered Users Posts: 406 ✭✭ponddigger


    hi where does the water go from the gully on the left hand of the photo. jack:confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭Kevwoody


    ponddigger wrote: »
    hi where does the water go from the gully on the left hand of the photo. jack:confused:



    Yea right enough! Op could have just dug down and exposed the pipe and connected into it, no need for a soak pit, and all surface water removed off site.

    I worked as a landscaper for years and drained many small gardens, and never once had to dig a soak pit.
    Usually drained straight into a gully pipe, normally going underneath a concrete path to minimise repair to the concrete.

    Also I rarely used normal coiled piping. If you want a really sturdy pipe, a perforated 4inch twin wall straight 6metre pipe is a better option. Or the slightly cheaper solid sewer pipe, and a few minutes with a cordless drill will be just as good.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,259 ✭✭✭positron


    The downpipe on the left of the photo is the coming off the newly built block shed - that's part of the problem. Here's my super technical drawing :D

    396691.png

    Patio and garden slopes away from house. The surface water drain is where it used to be before we built the extension - the water from extension's roof was taken around the way into same location. There's no easy to way to connect to the surface water drain, without lifting up the newly laid patio.

    24 hours later, the 1m soak-away still seems to have all the water I poured into it. :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭Kevwoody


    So are you saying at the minute the down pipe has no gully at the bottom to take the water away?


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 7,638 Mod ✭✭✭✭delly


    Hey Positron, good to see you giving it a go, these type of jobs do take a while to plan correctly :D

    Your pit looks deeper and far more structured than mine, so surprised it isn't draining. Is it possible that you're at the water table, what if you filled it some more to see the results, rather than a few inches.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,259 ✭✭✭positron


    Kevwoody wrote: »
    So are you saying at the minute the down pipe has no gully at the bottom to take the water away?

    Ye, that's right. It just flows out on to the grass. I was hoping that the perforated pipe would bring all that water into the soakaway.
    delly wrote: »
    Hey Positron, good to see you giving it a go, these type of jobs do take a while to plan correctly :D

    Your pit looks deeper and far more structured than mine, so surprised it isn't draining. Is it possible that you're at the water table, what if you filled it some more to see the results, rather than a few inches.

    Yeah, looks like my 9 years of planning is falling apart on day 1 of the execution. :o Hmm that's a fresh thought about filling in more water - I hadn't thought of that. So far the pit has proven itself very hmm waterproof or leak proof. I have gore-tex jackets that lets in/out more water than this pit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,015 ✭✭✭Kevwoody


    Ok that explains it!
    I can see why you wouldn't want to lift the new patio, but at least if you did and piped all water off site, it would be a more permanent job.
    After all, it's not just garden water, it's also roof water you are trying to get rid of.


  • Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭taxusbaccata


    Nicely done. I had a large garden field with similar issues - the topsoil is fine clay and compacted. What I have done is dig large open drains where the water collects in winter. I am going to deep plough the site also and plant trees.
    One concern I would have are that pipes tend to block over time but at least you will know know exactly where they are and what to do.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,259 ✭✭✭positron


    Haven't made much progress in the last couple of weeks with busy weekends and err.. attack of the ol' laziness.

    I had poked some deeper holes with a large wrecking bar at the bottom of the pit, and after yesterday's rain, there was this much water there.

    397687.jpg

    18 hours later, the soakway pit has still has some water in it, but it has drained a bit - especially compared to the trench in the picture - that's still full. So I guess the soakaway pit is working to some degree. I have more channels to dig still..

    My shopping list currently is about 25 meters of perforated pipe, weed/geotex membrane, and had no luck sourcing beer/milk/plastic crates to fill the soakaway (trying to avoid buying wavin aquacell yoke). Also needs to figure out if whatever subsoil that came out of the pit can be used to level the garden (perhaps cut with loads of sharp sand and compost), or is it for the skip and order better top soil. No rest for the wicked anyway!


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,259 ✭✭✭positron


    Bumping up an old thread - but just as an update.. this project has (finally) progressed to next stage.

    As you can see the picture above, the soakaway was collecting plenty of water but it wasn't draining too quickly. After a heavy downpour, the pit is often totally full, and takes some 48 hours to drain away completetly. I tried making it slightly deeper but didn't make much of a difference. In the end the finished pit is about 1.3 meters deep. I have noticed that while the pit itself is full to the brim, rest of the soil is fairly dry (and visibly cracking because it's mostly clay).

    419765.jpg

    Over the weekend, I placed a "column" of crates wrapped in geotex (or similar) membrane in the middle of the pit and filled around it with some left over old decorative stones and generally levelled the soil etc. Fingers crossed it does what it's supposed to do. Now to the next challenge of ammending the soil, grass etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,784 ✭✭✭Alkers


    Had you the pit filled in previously? If so with what?
    What impact are you hoping the crate will have? It may increase the attenuation capacity of your pit (if it was filled previously) but I don't see it improving the percolation rate.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,259 ✭✭✭positron


    It wasn't filled in previously - crates just keeps a bigger void to hold rain water compared to filling it with stones etc. I wasn't able to do much to improve the percolation rate, but I am hoping it would be just about enough. Its' been more or less sufficient over the winter - the hole fills up and eventually drains, and no visible puddles anywhere else. I am hoping it should be enough to handle most of the regular rain. A handful of heavy downpours every year year might overwelhm it a bit, but I don't mind that too much to be honest.

    I am also going to raise the lawn another couple of inches anyway (topsoil + compost + horticultural grit? may be.. ). I am hoping that the overall effect would be enough to stop visible waterlogging.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,784 ✭✭✭Alkers


    positron wrote: »
    I wasn't able to do much to improve the percolation rate, but I am hoping it would be just about enough.

    About all you could do is dig a deeper hole in the centre of the current one in the hope of getting through the layer of clay to a more-porous layer beneath but depending on your site that could be a fruitless exercise.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    I'd just like to pass on my commiserations to you regarding your soil :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,259 ✭✭✭positron


    I made some progress on this loooooong project of mine.

    Reused left over stones to fill around the "crate column" and you see water filling up right to the top after heavy downpours. It goes down eventually.

    422851.jpg

    Soakaway pit & channels etc covered and ready for next stage:

    422852.jpg

    Then I realised that my soil is still too full of clay it probably wouldn't even let the water get to the drains in the first place. After many nights of googling, eventually (rightly or wrongly, time will tell) decided to "improve" it cutting in loads of compost. I read this helps break up clay soil, somewhat improves drainage etc. It has to be good for grass anyway. Instead of buying a tonne bag of compost and pay for delivery, I ended up buying something like 40 or so bags of compost from Aldi (cheap enough 5c a litre I think).

    422853.jpg

    Turned over the clay revealing a lot of the crap builders had dug in - plastic sheets, roofing felt bits, scrap timber etc etc. And stones - loads and loads of stones.

    422854.jpg

    Levelled it over a week or so, giving it time to settle as well giving me time to pull out all the cr*p, roots and smash large lumps of clay etc. Also laid a micro-patio at the back of the garden, three blocks wide. It's ironic that I have drainage problem and I am laying out more concrete.. but if I have grass at that end, it would have turned into a muddy puddle anyway.

    422855.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,259 ✭✭✭positron


    After a lot of levelling by rake and a piece of timber, I was ready to roll out the grass. I never used a roller - probably another mistake - just didn't have the time or patience to go hire a roller. I did my best with my own weight.. again, time will tell.

    I did some research on rollout grass. Popular website often mentioned here quoted me around 300 euro for 20 square meters of grass + delivery to Drogheda. I went to Homebase and figured out they get fresh delivery every Thursday night. And it's 4 euro a square yard ~ 5 euro a square meter. It just so happened that next time I went back for grass, it was Saturday afternoon, and the rolls were truly past their prime. Starting to dry out and go yellow. So I got them for half price. Brought them home and rolled them out. They looked a bit sad at first but it's better than muck.

    422859.jpg

    Watered the grass twice a day for next week or so, and I am glad to report 99% of the grass survived.

    422860.jpg

    422861.jpg

    More importantly, even though it's a bit early to celebrate, the soakaway seems to be doing it's job after yesterdays heavy downpour. Real test would come in winter, but for now, it seems to be doing alright. Will report back in future if things change drastically! Peace!


  • Registered Users Posts: 31,001 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Oh, so that's what a lawn is supposed to look like.

    Looks amazing, nice one!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,259 ✭✭✭positron


    Should be okay if the concrete slab would be thick enough and more importantly large enough to support itself from around the soakaway, I wouldn't think spreading hardcore over soakaway and whacking it down will be a good idea - that's just my uninformed opinion though.


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