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Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information


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Feeling like AGS are giving me the run around.

24

Comments

  • #32
    madmac187
    Registered Users Posts: 652 ✭✭✭madmac187


    I applied in May for my pistol licence been chasing like wild fire after 6 weeks. The community officer came out in July looked at everything said all good very happy. Anyway kept chasing going no where. Rang supers office, dumbass said chief has to sign off. I said unrestricted, still wouldn’t listen. Rang super, told me that the county has highest amount of firearms in country going to have to wait in a very curt manner in September. September got thick sent nice letter to them wondering when il know about decision. Let it go a couple of weeks. Then rang FO chasing again to find out. He says ohh that’s granted get that a couple of days. Very sceptical I rang Phoenix Park, application is only on system since October. This is what I’m dealing with. A woeful shower of dreadful people in a midlands county. Going to let it go till three months and keep chasing and get solicitor involved and go to court if rejected. Not very happy at all.


  • #33
    ZiabR
    Registered Users Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭ZiabR


    That is shocking. You have already been waited over half a year. There is no excuse for that.


  • #34
    The pigeon man
    Registered Users Posts: 473 ✭✭The pigeon man


    Time to say to them that three months has passed and license application is rejected. Now you want to appeal to district court. That'll get them moving.


  • #35
    ZiabR
    Registered Users Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭ZiabR


    The pigeon man wrote: »
    Time to say to them that three months has passed and license application is rejected. Now you want to appeal to district court. That'll get them moving.

    I would be requesting a meeting at the very least and write a letter explaining the time lines and that you are seeking an appeal with the district court. I wouldnt be willing to wait another 3 months.


  • #36
    Sika98k
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Sika98k


    The pigeon man wrote: »
    Time to say to them that three months has passed and license application is rejected. Now you want to appeal to district court. That'll get them moving.

    My understanding is that the 3 month period only commences when they enter it on the system. I may be wrong, someone more knowledgeable may chip in.

    I’ve received two grant certificates for firearms stored for 6 months and guess what ? The certificates are backdated to the date of expiry.
    I shall return to composing a polite but strongly worded letter to the Superintendent asking for his comments before I lodge a complaint with the Garda Ombudsman.


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  • #37
    ZiabR
    Registered Users Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭ZiabR


    Sika98k wrote: »
    I’ve received two grant certificates for firearms stored for 6 months and guess what ? The certificates are backdated to the date of expiry.

    What do you mean by this? You are waiting on renewals?


  • #38
    Sika98k
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭Sika98k


    ZiabR wrote: »
    What do you mean by this? You are waiting on renewals?

    Yes, they are “renewals”, but all renewals are meant to be regarded as fresh applications to establish that you have good reason for possessing these firearms.
    First page of a prepopulated form has a line on it saying “ it is a serious offense to be in possession of an unlicensed firearm “. So you put them beyond reach in a RFD’s strong room and your certificate comes back backdated 6 months.
    Really ? Try buying a TV licence, a dog licence, a driving licence. All are dated as current from the date of issue and not from the date of expiration.

    When I stand in the reception of a Garda station and look at the Garda Charter it makes me want to laugh. Having said that I know plenty of Gardaí who are as individuals sound but as a force in my official dealings with them lackluster.


  • #39
    ZiabR
    Registered Users Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭ZiabR


    Sika98k wrote: »
    Having said that I know plenty of Gardaí who are as individuals sound but as a force in my official dealings with them lackluster.

    I would agree with that. I too know a few Gards, some very well. They themselves will tell you that alot of the processes and systems are broken and are not fit for purpose.


  • #40
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    The Garda Inspectorate was highly critical of the PULSE system and how outdated and not fir for task it was.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • #41
    ZiabR
    Registered Users Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭ZiabR


    Cass wrote: »
    The Garda Inspectorate was highly critical of the PULSE system and how outdated and not fir for task it was.

    The country is just limping along. Its not just the Pulse system or many of the other ancient Garda systems that are falling over under the load. Its the health system, housing etc. Nothing is working as intended.

    The Garda are understaffed, and have been for years. The proof is putting hundreds of Gards back on the road from office jobs and bringing in civilians for all of the administrative works. I do feel sorry for them.

    Who would want to be a Gard in 2019.


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  • #42
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    I don't know if it was this thread or another where i said i feel sorry for AGS, at least the "feet on the ground" level members that we [the shooting community] deal with. We give them a sometimes terrible going over on this forum and it makes us [the forum and community] seem anti AGS, but its not the case.

    We have to deal with the bureaucracy which nearly always results in conflict as a result, so tensions are high and it can become emotive. Its not always our fault either. There is still a large prevailing anti gun sentiment from AGS (be that old school thinking, trickle down policy, or simple personal dislike) and it always comes across in our dealings with them so this in itself will cause conflict.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • #43
    ZiabR
    Registered Users Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭ZiabR


    I am lucky in the sense that the garda in my local station are shooters and hunters themselves so at least I have someone to chase and vent to. They are fully aware of the waiting times and hassle with trying to get licences. They themselves are left waiting when they try to do subs and renewals.

    The real issue seems to be with Subs and Renewals where the super has to sign off on them again. If they were to categorise firearms into groups so that like for like subs and renewals didn't need a super to sign off on them again, then waiting times would dramatically fall.

    As I recently found out from speaking with various dealers, they are all saying that the waiting times and the way that the system works have a massive impact on their businesses. Its no wonder hundreds have closed over the last 20 years.


  • #44
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    The subs i'd agree with you on. It's already authorised so it shouldn't require the "full monty".

    However renewals, as we call them and Sika98 pointed out above, are actually re-applications. By law that means only a Super/Chief Super can authorise them as we are applying to have the firearm granted albeit again.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • #45
    Bogwoppit
    Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭Bogwoppit


    I had the pleasure of seeing the pulse system in operation during a renewal 5 or 6 years ago, I was taken aback by how hopeless it was. It would have been outdated long before it was brought online, one of the most useless pieces of software I’ve ever seen and I do pity any guard that has to use it.


  • #46
    ZiabR
    Registered Users Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭ZiabR


    Cass wrote: »
    The subs i'd agree with you on. It's already authorised so it shouldn't require the "full monty".

    However renewals, as we call them and Sika98 pointed out above, are actually re-applications. By law that means only a Super/Chief Super can authorise them as we are applying to have the firearm granted albeit again.

    Ah yes, ok. Renewals are new applications per say so yes I can see why the Super is needed to sign off on them again. I think we do have one of the strictest or restrictive licencing systems in the EU? I am all for firearm safety, I do like and understand why certain checks need to be done etc, its just the waiting times that I cant get my head around.


  • #47
    Bagpipe
    Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭Bagpipe


    Quick update for anyone still wondering:

    The superintendent wants to question me so yes I wonder what that will be like.


  • #48
    Gorgeousgeorge
    Registered Users Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭Gorgeousgeorge


    Bagpipe wrote: »
    Quick update for anyone still wondering:

    The superintendent wants to question me so yes I wonder what that will be like.

    Routine enough had to go in twice myself over a pistol and a lever action .357. was to the chief super in naas though not the super nintendo in the local station.

    Have your facts straight and and be persistent and dont take any **** and you will he grand


  • #49
    Bagpipe
    Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭Bagpipe


    Gorgeousgeorge wrote: »
    Routine enough had to go in twice myself over a pistol and a lever action .357. was to the chief super in naas though not the super nintendo in the local station.

    Have your facts straight and and be persistent and dont take any **** and you will he grand




    I presume the usual questions of why in the heck do you require such a weapon of mass destruction and why cant an alternate less dangerous looking firearm be chosen, would apply?


  • #50
    The pigeon man
    Registered Users Posts: 473 ✭✭The pigeon man


    Have your solicitor accompany you during the interview and record it. I know it sounds a bit over the top but it sends a clear message that you won't be messed with.

    If the super is applying the law properly he will have no problem with someone with legal knowledge attending.


  • #51
    solarwinds
    Registered Users Posts: 535 ✭✭✭solarwinds


    I agree with the above, I was asked in before for a quick "informal" chat a few years ago with a different Super. So off I trot and find myself sitting in a room with the Super and 2 Sergeants, an hour later we were done. So yes I would either record it or bring someone.


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  • #52
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    ZiabR wrote: »
    Ah yes, ok. Renewals are new applications per say so yes I can see why the Super is needed to sign off on them again. I think we do have one of the strictest or restrictive licencing systems in the EU? I am all for firearm safety, I do like and understand why certain checks need to be done etc, its just the waiting times that I cant get my head around.

    It would be a great help if [1] we liscense the man and not the gun [2] overhaul the PULSE system to deal with this properly,or [3] Go to an utterly civillian based liscense system,with aGS only performing backround checks and final Yea/nay by the respective ranks after reading your report from your local FO. and [4] Do away with multiple credit card bits of paper,and go to one Smart card system that records all your pertint firearms info,and allows over the counter transactions,and like for like trades...But this IS Ireland...:rolleyes:

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • #53
    Gorgeousgeorge
    Registered Users Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭Gorgeousgeorge


    Bagpipe wrote: »
    I presume the usual questions of why in the heck do you require such a weapon of mass destruction and why cant an alternate less dangerous looking firearm be chosen, would apply?

    Yeah pretty much but in my case it was a why cant you just stick with the clay pigeons and shotgun will that not do ya.


  • #54
    Bagpipe
    Registered Users Posts: 146 ✭✭Bagpipe


    solarwinds wrote: »
    I agree with the above, I was asked in before for a quick "informal" chat a few years ago with a different Super. So off I trot and find myself sitting in a room with the Super and 2 Sergeants, an hour later we were done. So yes I would either record it or bring someone.
    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    It would be a great help if [1] we liscense the man and not the gun [2] overhaul the PULSE system to deal with this properly,or [3] Go to an utterly civillian based liscense system,with aGS only performing backround checks and final Yea/nay by the respective ranks after reading your report from your local FO. and [4] Do away with multiple credit card bits of paper,and go to one Smart card system that records all your pertint firearms info,and allows over the counter transactions,and like for like trades...But this IS Ireland...:rolleyes:
    Gorgeousgeorge wrote: »
    Yeah pretty much but in my case it was a why cant you just stick with the clay pigeons and shotgun will that not do ya.




    I'll do my best to record it and maybe post it here if you guys would be interested?


  • #55
    Gorgeousgeorge
    Registered Users Posts: 1,026 ✭✭✭Gorgeousgeorge


    Bagpipe wrote: »
    I'll do my best to record it and maybe post it here if you guys would be interested?

    Yeah cool but I dont know about the legality of that or if they realise it might not be impressed


  • #56
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    I wouldn't record it per se,without everyones permission presenr.Which they wont give anyway.They might say something they will regret later,and you doing it covertly breaks all sorts of privacy and dpa rules.
    Best thing is a 3rd party witness,or you need to transcribe as much as possible of the conversation.
    But names ,rank and who present at the meeting.
    Dont rise to insults ,or be cowed by intimidatory tactics either.They want a response put of you ,if it happens,so they can report you as being unfit to liscense.Be pofessional ,be polite,and have in your own mind for the letter you will send to the GO to complain all present if their conduct is less than becoming of superior officers of the law.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • #57
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Bagpipe wrote: »
    I'll do my best to record it and maybe post it here if you guys would be interested?

    I won't pretend to understand all the data protection or GDPR related laws, but i know enough to say that cannot happen.

    Record it if you want, but it cannot be "broadcast" here. You can, afaik, give a first person account, leaving out names, etc. (stick to rank), and how you got on, but any recordings or communication must have the person(s) involved permission to not only record but also to publicise.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • #58
    The pigeon man
    Registered Users Posts: 473 ✭✭The pigeon man


    Whilst I would think that it would be unwise to publish such a recording on boards, it is legal in Ireland to make an audio recording of someone provided one person in the conversation has consented to it. That can be yourself of course.

    Consent from all parties in the conversation is not required.

    You could record the meeting covertly if you do so wish but I would only be keeping this for yourself or your legal council.


  • #59
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    Just checked up on the law and i think i have it.

    You can record someone without their knowledge so long as you are a party to the conversation. If you are a third party that is NOT involved then it's illegal (without a warrant, etc. ala An Gardaí).

    So as said above it's legal to do so, but i must stress it cannot be broadcast here [Boards.ie] but a first hand/person account can be if you want to update the thread on your progress. However in keeping with the "accusations against named individuals" rule, keep it to rank.

    I'm telling ya, if its this hard to just tell each other a few stories or events imagine the harm if the proposed "hate speech" laws they want to bring in would cause.
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • #60
    onetimecypher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 95 ✭✭onetimecypher


    Grizzly 45 wrote: »
    I wouldn't record it per se,without everyones permission presenr.Which they wont give anyway.They might say something they will regret later,and you doing it covertly breaks all sorts of privacy and dpa rules.
    Best thing is a 3rd party witness,or you need to transcribe as much as possible of the conversation.
    But names ,rank and who present at the meeting.
    Dont rise to insults ,or be cowed by intimidatory tactics either.They want a response put of you ,if it happens,so they can report you as being unfit to liscense.Be pofessional ,be polite,and have in your own mind for the letter you will send to the GO to complain all present if their conduct is less than becoming of superior officers of the law.

    You can also request a "Subject Access Data Request" of the conversation under Data Protection, which should be a transcript of your conversation.

    https://www.garda.ie/en/about-us/online-services/data-protection-foi-police-certificates/an-garda-siochana-f20-october-2019-.pdf


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  • #61
    Asus1
    Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭Asus1


    I do a bit of maintenance work in a few stations around kildare and meath every few month's and most of the men and women i meet in the stations are no worse or better than anyone else i do work for.I read whats written here and it just seems a bit alien reading about superintendents being power crazy freaks who are so untrustworthy that we should record our conversations with.Im not denying anybody's experiences with them it just makes me sad that its gotten to this stage.


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