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Why do Irish people support English teams?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,714 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    I can't understand the logic of giving your money to the cities of London, Manchester or Liverpool supporting their teams over your own city and local clubs.

    There is no logic in it.

    Let's be honest, the way some Irish go on about British clubs (which is embarrassing and has more than a hint of post colonial psychology with it) hardly does much to assuage the argument that a good sample of typical football supporters actually aren't the brightest.

    Cause and effect. It's a total inability to see or acknowledge that it's their own choices that damage their own local teams and league in favor of England essentially.

    And then the refrain will be "I don't support the league of Ireland because it's ****e..."

    Following a LOI team can make your life better, but so can following an English team. For me an English team regularly provides wonderful entertainment and Joy for me and hundrets of thousands of people in Ireland, who has a right to deny people that joy?
    English football also makes friendships stronger as with football there's ALWAYS something to talk about. When your team wins English football makes day to day life that little bit better. If Liverpool where to win the Champions league or Premier league that's the best moment of the year for a lot of Irish people
    Yes football fans should try to support LOI also but most people dont have the time and no Irish person owe's the LOI anything.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭Laois_Man


    Maybe I need to get out more but I don't see all these supposed new Manchester City supporters that are supposed to have cropped up out of nowhere

    I personally know one Manchester City supporter - and he was supporting them in 1998/99 when they were in League One (as it's called now) and couldn't even finish top of that league


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,387 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Laois_Man wrote: »
    Maybe I need to get out more but I don't see all these supposed new Manchester City supporters that are supposed to have cropped up out of nowhere
    I personally know one Manchester City supporter - and he was supporting them in 1998/99 when they were in League One (as it's called now) and couldn't even finish top of that league

    My Da remembers the Frannie Lee era. Thats playing era not managing.

    Took me to see Niall Quinn playing for them v Liverpool in the old First Division.

    But he is probably a minority example...

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    Greyfox wrote: »
    Following a LOI team can make your life better, but so can following an English team. For me an English team regularly provides wonderful entertainment and Joy for me and hundrets of thousands of people in Ireland, who has a right to deny people that joy?
    English football also makes friendships stronger as with football there's ALWAYS something to talk about. When your team wins English football makes day to day life that little bit better. If Liverpool where to win the Champions league or Premier league that's the best moment of the year for a lot of Irish people
    Yes football fans should try to support LOI also but most people dont have the time and no Irish person owe's the LOI anything.

    That applies equally if not more to LOI fans, it's not like LOI fans just stop watching all other football or anything but they've also got the extra card of LOI football to talk about.

    How do most people not have the time? It's 2 hours ever second Friday night not every day. And it doesn't even impact on watching Premier league football.

    I don't understand this your point at all.

    Success wins fans and breeds support, not the other way round. Of course it's not a coincidence that city have been picking up fans when they're winning, only and idiot would argue that it is.

    There are only so many people who can have a geographic connection to a team. Big teams like a Barca or a Liverpool have hundreds of millions of fans world wide. Genuine real life fans!

    A Classico or a Pool v United will regularly attract viewing figures of 6 or 7 hundred million worldwide - they are global brands, they have long since surpassed being local teams. What is strange or unusual for any Irish person to be watching a match that 10% of the entire planet will be watching?

    Blackpool vs Peterborough would get nowhere near 6/7 hundred million viewers. Nothing strange in watching the match. Something strange in supporting one of them as if you were born and raised in the stadium shadow.

    There's only so many people with a geographical connection to a specific team but everyone has a geographical connection to a team, that's the point of football. They're not genuine real fans.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,387 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    D14Rugby wrote: »
    There's only so many people with a geographical connection to a specific team but everyone has a geographical connection to a team, that's the point of football. They're not genuine real fans.

    I could not disagree more. Its sport. You would reduce it to geography. You are only allowed to connect with a team where for arbitrary reasons you happened to be born or reared? Nonsense.
    The opposite is more likely to be true. Someone who only cares about the geography isnt a genuine sports fan.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    I could not disagree more. Its sport. You would reduce it to geography. You are only allowed to connect with a team where for arbitrary reasons you happened to be born or reared? Nonsense.
    The opposite is more likely to be true. Someone who only cares about the geography isnt a genuine sports fan.

    Teams were established to represent the areas they are in. Theres a reason they're named after where they are and not by their nicknames, even those though tend to have roots in the clubs geographical area.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,831 ✭✭✭RobMc59


    I follow Everton and live in Merseyside,they have a big following in North Wales and nobody thinks that strange-just as Irish support isn't considered strange by any supporters here-there are also close ties between Ireland and places like Liverpool,London and the Midlands(as has been mentioned by others here).
    My late father in law from Clogherhead was a spurs fan,he had lived in London in the early 60s.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    RobMc59 wrote: »
    I follow Everton and live in Merseyside,they have a big following in North Wales and nobody thinks that strange-just as Irish support isn't considered strange by any supporters here-there are also close ties between Ireland and places like Liverpool,London and the Midlands(as has been mentioned by others here).
    My late father in law from Clogherhead was a spurs fan,he had lived in London in the early 60s.

    Liverpool is basically on the boarder with North Wales.
    See all the slagging Manchester United get for having more fans in London than Manchester? It's just having Irish fans is so ingrained now nobody notices and in the UK when it suits them they don't realise Ireland is a separate country so it goes unnoticed. Fans of bigger clubs are getting more and more pissed off at being priced out by foreign fans though and soon they'll realise that includes Irish fans.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,714 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    D14Rugby wrote: »
    How do most people not have the time? It's 2 hours ever second Friday night not every day. And it doesn't even impact on watching Premier league football...There's only so many people with a geographical connection to a specific team but everyone has a geographical connection to a team, that's the point of football. They're not genuine real fans.

    Because if you have friends or a girlfriend chances are you'll want to spend friday night with them and I currently dont have any friends who follow the LOI. The reality is LOI is a product and its competing against more popular products and products of a much higher standard. You cant blame people for picking more popular products or more popular interests, that's life, people are free to do what they want with there own time. In Ireland the fact is football is not of a high standard so a lot of peole who truely love football are not interested in football below a certain standard as they cant get emotionally attached to it. Its easy to get emotionally attached to English football when everyone around you follows it and its the emotional attachment that matters


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭Patrick2010


    6,500 saw a cracking game of football in Tallaght a few weeks ago.
    Rovers have slipped a bit lately but they have played some brilliant football this season with a 5 man midfield that keeps the ball on the deck.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,714 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    D14Rugby wrote: »
    Fans of bigger clubs are getting more and more pissed off at being priced out by foreign fans though and soon they'll realise that includes Irish fans.

    That's there tough luck, there club loves having loads of foreign fans


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,177 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    D14Rugby wrote: »
    That applies equally if not more to LOI fans, it's not like LOI fans just stop watching all other football or anything but they've also got the extra card of LOI football to talk about.

    How do most people not have the time? It's 2 hours ever second Friday night not every day. And it doesn't even impact on watching Premier league football.




    Blackpool vs Peterborough would get nowhere near 6/7 hundred million viewers. Nothing strange in watching the match. Something strange in supporting one of them as if you were born and raised in the stadium shadow.

    There's only so many people with a geographical connection to a specific team but everyone has a geographical connection to a team, that's the point of football. They're not genuine real fans.

    Do you watch the All blacks on tv ?
    The Springboks? The Wallabies? If yes, why aren't you watching your 'local' team ?

    And can Leinster be your local team? Do you go to all of the AIL games on locally? Would you watch an AIL game before watching a Leinster game? An Ireland game ?
    If no, why not? They are your local team...

    Do you follow a football team?

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... "



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    Greyfox wrote: »
    That's there tough luck, there club loves having loads of foreign fans

    They also love being able to promote the atmosphere you get in their stadium and foreign fans don't bring that.
    Greyfox wrote: »
    Because if you have friends or a girlfriend chances are you'll want to spend friday night with them and I currently dont have any friends who follow the LOI. The reality is LOI is a product and its competing against more popular products and products of a much higher standard. You cant blame people for picking more popular products or more popular interests, that's life, people are free to do what they want with there own time. In Ireland the fact is football is not of a high standard so a lot of peole who truely love football are not interested in football below a certain standard as they cant get emotionally attached to it. Its easy to get emotionally attached to English football when everyone around you follows it and its the emotional attachment that matters

    If football needs to be a certain standard for you to get emotionally attached to it then you don't truly love football. If its a case of everyone around you doing something being a requirement to do it then nothing would ever change or if everyone then changed to LOI by that logic you'd get just as much enjoyment and more because you'd actually be there, you'd have some local pride, know you're putting money back into the community and save yourself a lot of money in the process.
    greenspurs wrote: »
    Do you watch the All blacks on tv ?
    The Springboks? The Wallabies? If yes, why aren't you watching your 'local' team ?

    And can Leinster be your local team? Do you go to all of the AIL games on locally? Would you watch an AIL game before watching a Leinster game? An Ireland game ?
    If no, why not? They are your local team...

    Do you follow a football team?

    I do watch them on tv but I don't support them. Watching other teams on tv and watching your own aren't mutually exclusive events.

    Actually yes I do go to my AIL teams games every week. And if Leinster don't clash with that, my own games or Rovers games I go see them too.

    So your point is?

    See how I see it is I get the best of all worlds, I get to experience live, local sports and get all the perks that come with that. I also get to watch any of the other matches I want and enjoy the perks of watching the top teams play.
    It's a win win for me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,714 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    D14Rugby wrote: »
    They also love being able to promote the atmosphere you get in their stadium and foreign fans don't bring that.

    If football needs to be a certain standard for you to get emotionally attached to it then you don't truly love football.. you'd have some local pride, know you're putting money back into the community and save yourself a lot of money in the process.

    Watching other teams on tv and watching your own aren't mutually exclusive events...

    Your first 2 points are nonsense, foreign fans also make noise at a match. I am not going to watch amatures play in the little park beside me, people hoofing a ball up and down a field with no passing ability.. that's not fun to watch so quality is important. local pride is only relevant if you have a good football club right beside you and most people in Ireland dont have this. Man United are my team, they've been my team since I was 8 and they will be my team on the day I die.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,177 ✭✭✭✭greenspurs


    D14Rugby wrote: »
    They also love being able to promote the atmosphere you get in their stadium and foreign fans don't bring that.



    If football needs to be a certain standard for you to get emotionally attached to it then you don't truly love football. If its a case of everyone around you doing something being a requirement to do it then nothing would ever change or if everyone then changed to LOI by that logic you'd get just as much enjoyment and more because you'd actually be there, you'd have some local pride, know you're putting money back into the community and save yourself a lot of money in the process.



    I do watch them on tv but I don't support them. Watching other teams on tv and watching your own aren't mutually exclusive events.

    Actually yes I do go to my AIL teams games every week. And if Leinster don't clash with that, my own games or Rovers games I go see them too.

    So your point is?

    See how I see it is I get the best of all worlds, I get to experience live, local sports and get all the perks that come with that. I also get to watch any of the other matches I want and enjoy the perks of watching the top teams play.
    It's a win win for me.

    I guess you win then.

    I wish I had your spare time !

    "Bright lights and Thunder .................... "



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,889 ✭✭✭✭The Moldy Gowl


    Good thing about LOI is that it's in full flow during the summer and with no world Cup on, plenty of time for the football fans to get their fix rather than refreshing transfer rumours.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,288 ✭✭✭✭8-10


    D14Rugby wrote: »
    They also love being able to promote the atmosphere you get in their stadium and foreign fans don't bring that.



    If football needs to be a certain standard for you to get emotionally attached to it then you don't truly love football. If its a case of everyone around you doing something being a requirement to do it then nothing would ever change or if everyone then changed to LOI by that logic you'd get just as much enjoyment and more because you'd actually be there, you'd have some local pride, know you're putting money back into the community and save yourself a lot of money in the process.



    I do watch them on tv but I don't support them. Watching other teams on tv and watching your own aren't mutually exclusive events.

    Actually yes I do go to my AIL teams games every week. And if Leinster don't clash with that, my own games or Rovers games I go see them too.

    So your point is?

    See how I see it is I get the best of all worlds, I get to experience live, local sports and get all the perks that come with that. I also get to watch any of the other matches I want and enjoy the perks of watching the top teams play.
    It's a win win for me.

    My team, Liverpool, have every game televised including friendlies. Rarely stuck for a stream. It's win-win for me too, either I go to the game and get one of the best atmosphere's in any sport, or I get to watch at home.

    If we weren't constantly on telly I'd likely follow someone more local more regularly, I have a local LOI Div 1 team I played for underage and go to the occasional game of, but nothing beats being able to watch every single game in a season home or away


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,387 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    D14Rugby wrote: »
    Teams were established to represent the areas they are in. Theres a reason they're named after where they are and not by their nicknames, even those though tend to have roots in the clubs geographical area.

    Why does Manchester need so many club teams then? Or London? Or Glasgow?
    How could a team ever dare to move stadium, they'd no longer be representing the area! These are not NFL franchises. They are club teams. If representing the area was why they were formed there would be one Sheffield team. But no, we have Sheffield United and Sheffield Wednesday because Sheffield Wednesday originally played on a Wednesday.
    The original name of Spurs was Hotspur Football Club. They only added the Tottenham part later.

    Clearly, that's not why they were formed. The first step was because players wanted to play. Everything else that came afterwards, why some teams became pros and successful, why some teams had backers from local factory owners etc, why some stayed amateur or small from the same area ... all of that was the random chance of history.
    If your theory was correct there wouldn't be lots of teams from same area at different rungs of the pyramid, there would just be Manchester A, B, C, D, E, F, G teams all the way down in every league.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Why does Manchester need so many club teams then? Or London? Or Glasgow?
    How could a team ever dare to move stadium, they'd no longer be representing the area! These are not NFL franchises. They are club teams. If representing the area was why they were formed there would be one Sheffield team. But no, we have Sheffield United and Sheffield Wednesday because Sheffield Wednesday originally played on a Wednesday.
    The original name of Spurs was Hotspur Football Club. They only added the Tottenham part later.

    Clearly, that's not why they were formed. The first step was because players wanted to play. Everything else that came afterwards, why some teams became pros and successful, why some teams had backers from local factory owners etc, why some stayed amateur or small from the same area ... all of that was the random chance of history.
    If your theory was correct there wouldn't be lots of teams from same area at different rungs of the pyramid, there would just be Manchester A, B, C, D, E, F, G teams all the way down in every league.
    There are loads of teams in the greater Manchester area, Salford City, Bury, Rochdale, Altrincham, United of Manchester


  • Registered Users Posts: 917 ✭✭✭Mr_Muffin


    The quality on offer.

    Same as TV/Movies. British/American content is better then Irish content.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,038 ✭✭✭✭blade1


    Mr_Muffin wrote: »
    The quality on offer.

    Same as TV/Movies. British/American content is better then Irish content.
    You're not really selling it with that example :o


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 730 ✭✭✭Achasanai


    I can't understand the logic of giving your money to the cities of London, Manchester or Liverpool supporting their teams over your own city and local clubs.


    People do this all the time. If you enjoy tennis, you don't hang around the local club watching the amateurs play, you watch Wimbledon. It's odd that soccer gets the most stick for this.



    Kind of the same as buying from a large online multinational rather than keeping it within the community.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,889 ✭✭✭✭The Moldy Gowl


    Edgware wrote: »
    There are loads of teams in the greater Manchester area, Salford City, Bury, Rochdale, Altrincham, United of Manchester

    I follow man utd obviously because of the media exposure back in the day.

    Im sick of elite football. I prefer the lower leagues. Way more fun rather than souness giving out about pogbas haircut. Following the top is tiresome. One loss and a team is in crisis


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,889 ✭✭✭✭The Moldy Gowl


    blade1 wrote: »
    You're not really selling it with that example :o

    Mls gets stick but it's decent quality. Give it 10 more years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    8-10 wrote: »
    My team, Liverpool, have every game televised including friendlies. Rarely stuck for a stream. It's win-win for me too, either I go to the game and get one of the best atmosphere's in any sport, or I get to watch at home.

    If we weren't constantly on telly I'd likely follow someone more local more regularly, I have a local LOI Div 1 team I played for underage and go to the occasional game of, but nothing beats being able to watch every single game in a season home or away

    LOI clashes with Liverpool I'd say maybe once a year at most. Being at matches home and away beats it by a long distance. Fair play to going to the odd game though.
    greenspurs wrote: »
    I guess you win then.

    I wish I had your spare time !

    It's not a win, a win implies nobody else can have that, every person in the country has the ability to do what I do, people just don't because of misguided preconceptions.

    I don't have a lot of spare time. 53 hour week. I just don't **** about doing nothing scrolling through Facebook scratching my arse.
    Greyfox wrote: »
    Your first 2 points are nonsense, foreign fans also make noise at a match. I am not going to watch amatures play in the little park beside me, people hoofing a ball up and down a field with no passing ability.. that's not fun to watch so quality is important. local pride is only relevant if you have a good football club right beside you and most people in Ireland dont have this. Man United are my team, they've been my team since I was 8 and they will be my team on the day I die.

    Foreign fans don't. Go to any ground in England and you'll see that. They sit and complain when others stand up.
    People in Ireland do have this, they're just in denial about it because it's not the it thing to like
    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Why does Manchester need so many club teams then? Or London? Or Glasgow?
    How could a team ever dare to move stadium, they'd no longer be representing the area! These are not NFL franchises. They are club teams. If representing the area was why they were formed there would be one Sheffield team. But no, we have Sheffield United and Sheffield Wednesday because Sheffield Wednesday originally played on a Wednesday.
    The original name of Spurs was Hotspur Football Club. They only added the Tottenham part later.

    Clearly, that's not why they were formed. The first step was because players wanted to play. Everything else that came afterwards, why some teams became pros and successful, why some teams had backers from local factory owners etc, why some stayed amateur or small from the same area ... all of that was the random chance of history.
    If your theory was correct there wouldn't be lots of teams from same area at different rungs of the pyramid, there would just be Manchester A, B, C, D, E, F, G teams all the way down in every league.

    There are multiple different areas and demographics in cities. Like how Celtic was started for the Irish in Glasgow, Manchester United for railway workers, Everton for church goers. Tottenham were called Hotspur after the nickname for the guy who used to own the land where they were founded.
    Your second paragraph proves my point, many were founded by workers of factories and such so that they and their families had something to do on their day off.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,570 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Going to a match is great though. Bohemians may not play like Liverpool but just going to the match and knowing you're contributing to the club and you're part of the community of Bohs is a lovely feeling. I honestly feel like I belong there as I first went to games as a kid with my Dad and Uncle and my family are from around there. That's what I don't get about the Liverpool stuff etc. Going to their matches etc, I just wouldn't feel like I belong. They are the city of Liverpool's team, not ours. I understand you can follow them, but you wont get that lovely feeling you get with your own local club, like the Liverpudlians are getting.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,387 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Going to a match is great though. Bohemians may not play like Liverpool but just going to the match and knowing you're contributing to the club and you're part of the community of Bohs is a lovely feeling. I honestly feel like I belong there as I first went to games as a kid with my Dad and Uncle and my family are from around there. That's what I don't get about the Liverpool stuff etc. Going to their matches etc, I just wouldn't feel like I belong. They are the city of Liverpool's team, not ours. I understand you can follow them, but you wont get that lovely feeling you get with your own local club, like the Liverpudlians are getting.

    Please don't take this the wrong way but that's almost more than a sporting feeling though the way you describe it, some people get that feeling of belonging from their local church or local school or local history.. or in your case standing on the terraces of your local club.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Please don't take this the wrong way but that's almost more than a sporting feeling though the way you describe it, some people get that feeling of belonging from their local church or local school or local history.. or in your case standing on the terraces of your local club.

    And there exactly is the point, every single person that follows their local club has that feeling. Now imagine the feeling you have when your team play and multiplying it by that feeling of belonging as you call it.

    Supporting a foreign team doesn't even come close.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    I just could never get why most of Dublin and the rest of the country supported the English league .
    Because most of Dublin acknowledges that their team is sh|te.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,484 ✭✭✭Allinall


    D14Rugby wrote: »
    Teams were established to represent the areas they are in. Theres a reason they're named after where they are and not by their nicknames, even those though tend to have roots in the clubs geographical area.

    Shamrock Rovers.

    Wimbledon.


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