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Dublin Marathon moves to lottery entries!

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    And the organisers, with the exception of 1 person, are "volunteers" too? Does that not matter?

    Well, yeah, you'd think maybe the volunteers would think to look after the volunteers?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,336 ✭✭✭EC1000


    mathie wrote: »
    It wouldn't be a flawless system but it would lead to a lot less unused entries.

    A lot less unused entries would solve nothing. The amount of entries sold (and allowed by the race permit) are based on the amount they expect to turn up, not the amount they can sell.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    Spot on. Volunteer - "a person who freely offers to take part in an enterprise or undertake a task".

    If people thought the DCM was struggling for volunteers, I bet they would think nothing of becoming one.

    And if I end up not running 2020, for whatever reason, I'll most likely volunteer again anyway. It's not like volunteering is a once a year thing for me, anyway.

    And I'm not saying volunteers should get a free entry or anything like it. Just that maybe if the whole 'switching to a lottery' thing had been better thought out and planned in advance, someone could have thought of reserving a certain number of spots for volunteers, too. If not at the time of the original announcement, which talked about GFA runners, then at least after the reaction to the backlash and automatic entry for the last three years' participants was announced.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭PhilOssophy


    Well, yeah, you'd think maybe the volunteers would think to look after the volunteers?

    Why? So if I volunteer to throw out water bottles at the Marathon next year, you think that should guarantee me an entry?

    Do volunteers at music festivals get free tickets for the following year? No.
    Do the volunteers who do the soup run for the Simon Community get something in response? No.

    People volunteer the length and breath of the country, be it in GAA clubs or football or rugby or whatever clubs. They expect nothing in return. Why is this different? I know people who volunteer in football clubs in Dublin and didn't get a sniff at an All-Ireland ticket this year, they just got on with it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 985 ✭✭✭Miklos


    Why? So if I volunteer to throw out water bottles at the Marathon next year, you think that should guarantee me an entry?

    Do volunteers at music festivals get free tickets for the following year? No.
    Do the volunteers who do the soup run for the Simon Community get something in response? No.

    People who volunteer at music festivals do get a free ticket for the weekend they're there and are free to avail of the festival when their volunteering is finished so I don't think that's a fair comparison.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭PhilOssophy


    Miklos wrote: »
    People who volunteer at music festivals do get a free ticket for the weekend they're there and are free to avail of the festival when their volunteering is finished so I don't think that's a fair comparison.

    What about the other activities?


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,837 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Why? So if I volunteer to throw out water bottles at the Marathon next year, you think that should guarantee me an entry?

    Do volunteers at music festivals get free tickets for the following year? No.
    Do the volunteers who do the soup run for the Simon Community get something in response? No.

    People volunteer the length and breath of the country, be it in GAA clubs or football or rugby or whatever clubs. They expect nothing in return. Why is this different? I know people who volunteer in football clubs in Dublin and didn't get a sniff at an All-Ireland ticket this year, they just got on with it.

    Soup run is a charity thing for godsake.

    Football Club is local, Dublin marathon is not a small local run so not a fair comparison.

    I know all running clubs get money per steward for the marathon.

    Not sure if it still happens, but volunteers at races in New York and the New York marathon will get spots in the New York Marathon. So maybe if you volunteer for all of the race series and the marathon, you will get slot in the marathon within 3 years?


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,837 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    What about the other activities?

    They get time off to enjoy some of the festival, which is something for their volunteering.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭PhilOssophy


    They get time off to enjoy some of the festival, which is something for their volunteering.

    I meant the likes of the soup run volunteers, GAA volunteers who didn't get a ticket for any of Dublin's 5-in-a-row. Didn't stop them volunteering again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭PhilOssophy


    Soup run is a charity thing for godsake.

    Football Club is local, Dublin marathon is not a small local run so not a fair comparison.

    I know all running clubs get money per steward for the marathon.

    Not sure if it still happens, but volunteers at races in New York and the New York marathon will get spots in the New York Marathon. So maybe if you volunteer for all of the race series and the marathon, you will get slot in the marathon within 3 years?

    It is all volunteering.

    Re the NY Marathon, I call BS on that claim


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,837 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    I meant the likes of the soup run volunteers, GAA volunteers who didn't get a ticket for any of Dublin's 5-in-a-row. Didn't stop them volunteering again.

    You talking about volunteers at local level or County. Can you give county examples where the volunteer didn't get to one of the Dublin All Irelands over the last 9 years? As i know a good few and the tickets are rotated around.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,837 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    It is all volunteering.

    Re the NY Marathon, I call BS on that claim

    The 9+1 program allows NYRR members who meet eligibility requirements to earn guaranteed entry to the TCS New York City Marathon! Runners completing their 9+1 program toward the 2020 TCS New York City Marathon must have their nine races and one volunteer opportunity completed by December 31, 2019.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,358 ✭✭✭Higgins5473


    It is all volunteering.

    Re the NY Marathon, I call BS on that claim

    you've your finger on the pulse

    https://www.nyrr.org/getinvolved/volunteer


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭PhilOssophy


    The 9+1 program allows NYRR members who meet eligibility requirements to earn guaranteed entry to the TCS New York City Marathon! Runners completing their 9+1 program toward the 2020 TCS New York City Marathon must have their nine races and one volunteer opportunity completed by December 31, 2019.

    And, have an active NYRR membership by December 31, 2019. But even that being so, you still need to pony up the entry fee for 9 races. All in all a bit more onerous than the proposal for being guaranteed an entry spot for rocking out and throwing water to people during the marathon.

    Anyway, I think at this juncture, we'll just agree to differ. Maybe I have a different opinion of volunteering and what I expect in response.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,090 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    The Dublin Marathon already does a lot for volunteers, your club gets a donation per each volunteer, the volunteer gets a free running jacket and they also get food and drinks for the day.

    I find a lot of the posts on this thread to be a bit over the top in terms of the expectations people have of the Dublin marathon in terms of providing entries and facilitation people dropping out and refunding/exchanging entries.

    Each to their own but I don't know of any races that do this.

    Also on the NY City Marathon and volunteering:
    * Volunteering on race day (November 3, 2019) at the 2019 TCS New York City Marathon does not count toward the 9+1 guaranteed entry requirements, except for volunteer opportunities at the start area.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,043 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Volunteers at the likes of Dublin Marathon and any other similar scale event are not volunteering for the marathon, they are volunteering for their running club who gets paid for their efforts. It might be that the individual gets nothing other than a tshirt for their efforts, but they are paid for by the marathon event and are not free staff.

    Using the term volunteer isn't the same as being a volunteer for a parkrun and is really the wrong word. Not sure what the right word is though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,005 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    Why? So if I volunteer to throw out water bottles at the Marathon next year, you think that should guarantee me an entry?

    Do volunteers at music festivals get free tickets for the following year? No.
    Do the volunteers who do the soup run for the Simon Community get something in response? No.

    People volunteer the length and breath of the country, be it in GAA clubs or football or rugby or whatever clubs. They expect nothing in return. Why is this different? I know people who volunteer in football clubs in Dublin and didn't get a sniff at an All-Ireland ticket this year, they just got on with it.

    Yes, as pointed out, as a voiunteer at music gigs and festivals, I get free entry and can watch whatever I want before or after my shift. And I get free beer.

    St John's Ambulance, Order of Malta, etc - all get to enjoy sports, music and other events for free.

    And volunteers look out for volunteers - even if it's "only" my local parkrun, the person who brought along the cake will make sure the timekeepers, token person and barcode scanners get offered cake before the participants do.

    And see the bit where I mentioned "not free"? Just, like, the option of an entry? Obviously, it would have to be paid for.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    16,000 places taken. Mental!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 364 ✭✭morceli


    Yep 6200 in the lottery now 🙂


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,640 ✭✭✭rovers_runner


    Two possible outcomes here.

    1. Move start/finish to the Phoenix Park.

    2. Change the start finish area drastically in town.
    Take out pinch point 200m into the race
    Change finish to head back out of town to allow more space for post race needs.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,196 ✭✭✭MonkstownHoop


    Two possible outcomes here.

    1. Move start/finish to the Phoenix Park.

    2. Change the start finish area drastically in town.
    Take out pinch point 200m into the race
    Change finish to head back out of town to allow more space for post race needs.


    That seems to be a theory doing the rounds that they are trying to use demand to push the council to allow them make a change


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭ligerdub


    ligerdub wrote: »

    So with that in mind it's reasonable to assume that there was in the region of 40,000 emails sent out. Of these a lot of them were probably international and unlikely to do again. I'd say it will run close to filling up from past entrants alone though. My guess would be about 15,000 will take up their spot over the 72 hours but that's just a guess.

    Well.....I was close. :D

    Pretty much an ideal scenario from the organisers point of view. It keeps the repeat entrants happy but also leaves those looking for a first time entry with a reasonable shot of getting in. At a guess I'd say they have a better than 50:50 chance of claiming a spot, particularly if you consider those cancelling their number over the next few months.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,640 ✭✭✭rovers_runner


    That seems to be a theory doing the rounds that they are trying to use demand to push the council to allow them make a change

    Jim has acknowledged himself that the current location or its setup on race day has its limitations numbers wise.
    Either location changes altogether or big rethink of start/finish area if they get over 25000 of a permit.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,043 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Two possible outcomes here.

    1. Move start/finish to the Phoenix Park.

    2. Change the start finish area drastically in town.
    Take out pinch point 200m into the race
    Change finish to head back out of town to allow more space for post race needs.
    Finish area doesn't really matter as you have a relatively controlled and predictable number of people to deal with at any time. The start is what needs to change, streets are narrow (when dealing with tens of thousands of people at the same time) limited space for loos and a 90degree turn after a few hundred meters. Just having the start along the quays would be a massive improvement in getting people moving as you then have a long straight, but move the start out to a big park space and still have the finish in the center would be the best for the runners, just need to move the baggage bags around then which is a major hassle.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,640 ✭✭✭rovers_runner


    Wonder does this 16100 include places set aside for AAI championship runners and GFA?
    If not the they will be planning to oversubscribe by a fair bit it appears.


  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,439 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    robinph wrote: »
    Finish area doesn't really matter as you have a relatively controlled and predictable number of people to deal with at any time. The start is what needs to change, streets are narrow (when dealing with tens of thousands of people at the same time) limited space for loos and a 90degree turn after a few hundred meters. Just having the start along the quays would be a massive improvement in getting people moving as you then have a long straight, but move the start out to a big park space and still have the finish in the center would be the best for the runners, just need to move the baggage bags around then which is a major hassle.

    Another option might be to split the starts ala London Marathon,
    Have say 2-4hrs starting one area and 4hrs+ starting another and then they join the same course. Have finish area in the same location.

    You'd only have to move bags for some of the people then rather then all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,437 ✭✭✭Glencarraig


    morceli wrote: »
    Yep 6200 in the lottery now 🙂

    Even less after the good for age is done.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,364 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Another option might be to split the starts ala London Marathon,
    Have say 2-4hrs starting one area and 4hrs+ starting another and then they join the same course. Have finish area in the same location.

    You'd only have to move bags for some of the people then rather then all.

    Yep different start areas would be the solution. The quays might work, one start on Quays, one start on South Quays.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,975 ✭✭✭ooter


    interesting reading the comments of Louis Hogan in the new Dublin marathon book that he wanted the race to "cater for people who didn't necessarily belong to athletic clubs and who wouldn't have to pre-qualify" and "kept away from the athletic establishment."


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,397 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    ooter wrote: »
    interesting reading the comments of Louis Hogan in the new Dublin marathon book that he wanted the race to "cater for people who didn't necessarily belong to athletic clubs and who wouldn't have to pre-qualify" and "kept away from the athletic establishment."

    Surely the race already does cater to that segment, and has done for many years? :confused:


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