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When will men get liberated from gender roles?

  • 08-02-2020 9:41am
    #1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,483 ✭✭✭mr_fegelien


    60 years ago, any woman who would have worn trousers would have been laughed at like a man wearing skirts in modern times. Today, women wearing pants elicits no response.

    Women also can take up STEM subjects, don't have to get married, can act masculine, are leaders of countries etc...

    Yet men are still ridiculed for wearing feminine attire, choosing careers like nursing, etc..

    Why is this? When will men "women up" and not be afraid of showing their feminine side?


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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭ Valentino Old-fashioned Spacecraft


    I'd be more concerned about what happens to fathers in the event of separation.




  • My concept of gender is fixed, not fluid. Thanks for asking.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,460 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Yet men are still ridiculed for wearing feminine attire, choosing careers like nursing, etc..

    Why is this? When will men "women up" and not be afraid of showing their feminine side?


    Because men in women’s clothing look ridiculous, and people aren’t afraid to show their disdain for such nonsense. Men are ridiculed for taking low-paying ****e jobs because they’re expected to be capable of more. Men don’t have a “feminine side”, they’re men - masculine. Men are expected to behave like men and not behave like women. Why should men who want to behave like women expect people to accept that sort of behaviour?

    I don’t think anyone is “afraid” to show their feminine side or their masculine side. I think they’re fully conscious that there are social standards expected of them and nobody in society can simply be who they want and expect other people should just accept that. Society has no time for selfish individuals.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,183 ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    Women campaigned for change and equal rights.

    I hope you're going to lead the way for men to have the right to wear skirts without ridicule, Mr_F.

    But a quick point, I don't think any normal person mocks male nurses in this day and age.




  • Women campaigned for change and equal rights.

    Actually, quite a few men were there with them during those campaigns. My father marched with my mother for equal rights throughout the 60s/70s.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,631 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Which pretty frock are you going to wear today, OP?


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    They have always been free to do this. They just don't want to. They look down on feminine men.

    The only people keeping men oppressed in a way that has anything to do with gender is MEN.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,183 ✭✭✭✭Leg End Reject


    Actually, quite a few men were there with them during those campaigns. My father marched with my mother for equal rights throughout the 60s/70s.

    I was wasn't suggesting they didn't, nor trying to score points. I'm just not sure feg understands the issues men should be campaigning for, skirts are either a very low, or nonexistent, issue.

    Fair play to your father though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    I'd be more concerned about what happens to fathers in the event of separation.
    Do you not think that is a cultural by product of these gender roles?


  • Posts: 0 Zaylee Lemon Oaf


    Any time something at work needs carried it's the men called on to help. Even though it's often light stuff. The office is very warm so you end up back at your desk all sweaty. Pisses me off.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Any time something at work needs carried it's the men called on to help. Even though it's often light stuff. The office is very warm so you end up back at your desk all sweaty. Pisses me off.

    You are physically stronger. Be mature.


  • Posts: 0 Zaylee Lemon Oaf


    You are physically stronger. Be mature.

    Its light stuff easily carried by men or woman. Some of the women could do with the exercise too.

    I'm going to be refusing from now on. Bad back will be the excuse.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭johnmcdnl


    Any time something at work needs carried it's the men called on to help. Even though it's often light stuff. The office is very warm so you end up back at your desk all sweaty. Pisses me off.

    How about next time someone asks you for help carrying something, ask me or some of your other male (or female) colleagues to do it instead if it's that big of an issue for you.




  • I was wasn't suggesting they didn't, nor trying to score points. I'm just not sure feg understands the issues men should be campaigning for, skirts are either a very low, or nonexistent, issue.

    Fair play to your father though.

    Sorry, I wasn't trying to suggest that you were. It's just a fairly common thing to see where males are excluded from any involvement for women's rights. It's something that they needed to do in the face of male resistance.. yadda yadda yadda (irrespective that a lot of the resistance came from other women).

    I would agree that men's rights should be more concerned with actual rights. Equality in the workplace/society, the removal of gender quotas, fathers rights, better funding for male related health concerns, educational problems for males in schooling.

    TBH, I think campaigning for male rights is pretty useless. Feminism has momentum built in that area, and male rights are generally perceived as being opposed to female rights. You can't have one without taking away from the other, which means there will be serious resistance regardless of how reasonable the argument is.

    Instead, males should be pushing for egalitarianism. Equality of opportunity, and a society that stops placing so much emphasis on gender.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    They have always been free to do this. They just don't want to.
    and its a good thing too. we can thank all the traditional male types for our warm dry homes with plumbing and electricity, every time our waste is collected, every time we get on a plane, train or automobile.


  • Posts: 0 Zaylee Lemon Oaf


    johnmcdnl wrote: »
    How about next time someone asks you for help carrying something, ask me or some of your other male (or female) colleagues to do it instead if it's that big of an issue for you.

    Ask you?


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,460 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Do you not think that is a cultural by product of these gender roles?


    To be fair, it’s more commonly known as empathy. For that poster, of greater concern to them is how separated fathers are treated, than men who choose to wear women’s clothing.

    Fathers separated because they want to wear women’s clothing might present something of a conundrum as to how far their empathy goes :pac:




  • You are physically stronger. Be mature.

    Maybe. That's an assumption based on outdated stereotypes. Many males these days aren't particularly strong. I have very little muscle on my upper body. I'm 192 cm tall, and I can use my height/weight in terms of strength, but I don't have much strength for carrying things. My sister is half my height, carries three children around daily, and is far stronger than me.

    In a fight, I'd win. In terms of carrying things, she'd win easily.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,171 ✭✭✭✭jimgoose


    I don't know about you lot, but I am such a basic bitch sometimes. OMG I can't EVEN!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,277 ✭✭✭Your Face


    Kilts.

    So now what?


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  • Posts: 0 Zaylee Lemon Oaf


    I don't mind carrying items for an old woman or if something is particularly heavy. Often its old files and they are light enough but there can be lots off them. Its sweaty work in a warm office.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭ Valentino Old-fashioned Spacecraft


    Do you not think that is a cultural by product of these gender roles?
    It results from perceived gender roles, which is why I posted it. However I don't think a man needs to come across as feminine in any way to be a good father or be kind or gentle etc. I don't care whether a guy wants to be effeminate or dress in womens clothes or anything else. I just think it's irrelevant to whether or not he possesses nurturing traits. Hence I'm more concerned with what happens to fathers when they separate. In general they are assumed to be the lesser parent just because they are male.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭Peatys


    Yet men are still ridiculed for wearing feminine attire, choosing careers like nursing, etc..

    Why is this? When will men "women up" and not be afraid of showing their feminine side?

    Think you're 30 years behind the times. I don't know anyone who would think twice about a male nurse.

    What sort of ridicule have you seen?


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,537 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    Why is this? When will men "women up" and not be afraid of showing their feminine side?

    Because I can't sit with my legs closed for too long and if I wear a skirt, i have to wait until the warmer weather for less ridicule...


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,157 ✭✭✭chrissb8


    Be whoever you're comfortable being. Anyone who cares about anyone else's business is a pathetic loser who needs to get a grip of themselves.

    That said, societal behaviours are distinct. In that, they have been around and changed over 100's of years. So when a person is born and raised they are presented with a "how to" in terms of how to act. For both genders, there is a general way to act and be. It's a logical way in which people can construct their personality around it, or even against it.

    I don't think this is a bad thing as you can discover who you are when you have a framework to work off in how to construct identity. So you end up with men who adopt purely masculine traits and come out as a very masculine person than you have others who adopt predominately from the feminine side and have less masculine traits.

    Gender norms are in society for a reason because they give structure. How each person formulates their identity from these or even against them, as I said, is upto them. This could all change in years and most likely will but the admonishing of men being men makes no sense. That is who they are comfortable being.

    There's just idiots out there who would believe us all to be one or the other. Which would be incredibly boring. Just embrace each other.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭ArchXStanton


    When men abandon them

    One of the bonuses of feminism was liberating men from chains they didn't know they had


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,652 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    My concept of gender is fixed, not fluid. Thanks for asking.

    Who says you have to belieb gender is fluid to wear a dress?

    I think the question in the OP is a good one. Men get ridiculed and judged for wearing women's clothes, but not vice versa.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,652 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    I'd be more concerned about what happens to fathers in the event of separation.

    You know you can be concerned by multiple things at once?

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users Posts: 9,167 ✭✭✭Fr_Dougal


    Do your research a bit better, OP.

    Google “bell bottom trousers’, you’re way off.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    60 years ago, any woman who would have worn trousers would have been laughed at like a man wearing skirts in modern times. Today, women wearing pants elicits no response.

    Women also can take up STEM subjects, don't have to get married, can act masculine, are leaders of countries etc...

    Yet men are still ridiculed for wearing feminine attire, choosing careers like nursing, etc..

    Why is this? When will men "women up" and not be afraid of showing their feminine side?


    Soc Dem voter eh


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