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End of #metoo

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 542 ✭✭✭dont bother


    i think #metoo is a load of sh!te personally.

    what a load of utter nonsense.

    people just like being loud and giving opinions and it's ripe for that.


    that's all.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    leggo wrote: »
    First question: do you guys talk like this amongst your friends? Defining basic words and concepts in a patronising tone to try score points on a point you disagree on? Taking throwaway comments and trying to scandalise them to dunk on people?

    Follow-up question: have you ever noticed that less and less people want to talk to you after you’ve spoken to them like this? Curious.

    I certainly don't accuse my friends - male and female - .... yes I actually have lots of female friends .... of being high if I'm debating a serious issue with them. I focus on the point being discussed as do they. People that don't generally aren't my friends.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    professore wrote: »
    I certainly don't accuse my friends - male and female - .... yes I actually have lots of female friends .... of being high if I'm debating a serious issue with them. I focus on the point being discussed as do they. People that don't generally aren't my friends.

    You sound like the best craic. Everyone loves a lad down the pub who sticks to the point.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,857 ✭✭✭professore


    leggo wrote: »
    :pac::pac::pac:

    LOVE how revealing this thread is! It's great craic! So you, py2006, see a guy who's entire point is, "Just ask for consent, it's really easy not to sexually harass someone", this bothers you for whatever reason and you think, "Oooh I'm gonna get that guy good!"

    You can't ask for consent if you don't realise it's sexual harassment, or perceived as such. Telling an off colour joke or being helpful to a woman can be interpreted as creepy and sexual harassment behaviour in 2018. At least in the US. Haven't seen it here yet thankfully.

    In a world that bans "Baby It's Cold Outside" and seriously is discussing censoring "Fairytale of New York" anything can be considered sexual harassment quite frankly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,066 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    i think #metoo is a load of sh!te personally.

    what a load of utter nonsense.

    people just like being loud and giving opinions and it's ripe for that.


    that's all.

    They're not opinions. They're experiences.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,066 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    professore wrote: »
    You can't ask for consent if you don't realise it's sexual harassment, or perceived as such. Telling an off colour joke or being helpful to a woman can be interpreted as creepy and sexual harassment behaviour in 2018. At least in the US. Haven't seen it here yet thankfully.

    In a world that bans "Baby It's Cold Outside" and seriously is discussing censoring "Fairytale of New York" anything can be considered sexual harassment quite frankly.

    It's not about offering help. If you offer help politely, that's fine. No-one is going to accuse you of being anything except polite.

    And rather than think of people trying to invent ways to be offended, we should focus on the very wrong things that are happening.

    I posted a link a few pages back
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/06/men-underestimate-level-of-sexual-harassment-against-women-survey

    It shows how people underestimate how much sexual harassment occurs. And the me too movement is good. It throws a light on this.

    I mentioned it before but how exactly are people to bring to light how common this is without speaking about it? Should the women who are sharing their experiences not have done so? I think it's been a good thing. I think this is something we should be talking about.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭Reviews and Books Galore


    leggo wrote: »
    :pac::pac::pac:

    LOVE how revealing this thread is! It's great craic! So you, py2006, see a guy who's entire point is, "Just ask for consent, it's really easy not to sexually harass someone", this bothers you for whatever reason and you think, "Oooh I'm gonna get that guy good!"
    .

    So, the answer is no? Nothing to be ashamed of as neither do I.

    Leggo, you've called people who disagree with you as creepy again and s high, and you may have implied that the people who disagreed with you as not being able to take no for an answer.

    Not everybody's your enemy for goodness gracious.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,385 ✭✭✭Nerdlingr


    Grayson wrote: »
    It's not about offering help. If you offer help politely, that's fine. No-one is going to accuse you of being anything except polite.

    And rather than think of people trying to invent ways to be offended, we should focus on the very wrong things that are happening.

    I posted a link a few pages back
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/06/men-underestimate-level-of-sexual-harassment-against-women-survey


    It shows how people underestimate how much sexual harassment occurs. And the me too movement is good. It throws a light on this.

    I mentioned it before but how exactly are people to bring to light how common this is without speaking about it? Should the women who are sharing their experiences not have done so? I think it's been a good thing. I think this is something we should be talking about.

    Just a little comment on the link you posted. I saw the headline earlier and read the piece. Its just another clickbait article. The survey showed not only do men underestimate harassment... but so do women!
    Yet the headline only has one of the sexes tagged.
    The Guardian has descended into a far left/metoo/feminist/racial opinion piece cesspit. More and more they've introduced one of those tropes into nearly every article they produce. Its very very tiring.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Grayson wrote: »

    I posted a link a few pages back
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/06/men-underestimate-level-of-sexual-harassment-against-women-survey

    It shows how people underestimate how much sexual harassment occurs. And the me too movement is good. It throws a light on this.

    That data looks so out of whack, what it really shows is that people are answering different understanding of the same question.

    Seriously, does anyone really believe that Denmark, Sweden, US, and France have actual sexual harassment rates double and triple those of Poland, Hungary, Spain, and Romania?

    As the countries are answering different questions, then men and women, in each country are answering different questions. Women in one country are answering a different question to women in another country. Men in one country are answering a different question to women in the same country, and to women in other countries.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,287 ✭✭✭givyjoe


    leggo wrote: »
    You sound like the best craic. Everyone loves a lad down the pub who sticks to the point.

    Are you high?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    givyjoe wrote: »
    Are you high?

    You better lawyer up because apparently that’s now the worst thing you can say to someone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    professore wrote: »
    You can't ask for consent if you don't realise it's sexual harassment, or perceived as such. Telling an off colour joke or being helpful to a woman can be interpreted as creepy and sexual harassment behaviour in 2018. At least in the US. Haven't seen it here yet thankfully.

    In a world that bans "Baby It's Cold Outside" and seriously is discussing censoring "Fairytale of New York" anything can be considered sexual harassment quite frankly.

    It’s really NOT difficult. Like a lot of people get by just fine every day being self-aware and appropriate, if people struggle with that then it shouldn’t be up to the rest of the world to just deal with their struggles.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,287 ✭✭✭givyjoe


    leggo wrote: »
    You better lawyer up because apparently that’s now the worst thing you can say to someone.

    For someone who claims to be well versed in consent, you do seem to have a knack for misreading a situation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    givyjoe wrote: »
    For someone who claims to be well versed in consent, you do seem to have a knack for misreading a situation.

    Your banter is awful and you’re behaving like a child, can you stop talking to me now? We’re not going to be friends.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,091 ✭✭✭backspin.


    Like it or not a pinch on the bum or a hand on your arm is not the same as rape or serious sexual assault and to try and pretend it is is an insult to real victims.

    I can't believe this is even debated.

    I'm sure an actual rape victim would swap their experience for a nip on the bum without question. It's grotesque to even compare them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,287 ✭✭✭givyjoe


    leggo wrote: »
    Your banter is awful and you’re behaving like a child, can you stop talking to me now? We’re not going to be friends.

    Banter?! Case in point.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    Anyway back to #MeToo I totally get why people find it annoying when they tell others to leave them alone and they don’t.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    leggo wrote: »
    Anyway back to #MeToo I totally get why people find it annoying when they tell others to leave them alone and they don’t.

    Do they really mean it though ?
    Legion are the women awooed despite telling their suitor at first that they wished to be left alone. Lending good credence to the understanding that this is part of the game played be elegant females to inform their judgement as to the depth of commitment of a potential husband.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Zorya


    leggo wrote: »
    Anyway back to #MeToo I totally get why people find it annoying when they tell others to leave them alone and they don’t.

    Right yeah because people annoying you by talking back to you on an anonymous forum when you don't want them to is any way comparable to sexual assault? Says it all really.

    Remember now, the ''Anyway back to #MeToo'' is the contextualising part of the sentence - #PatronisingExplanationWordsConcepts


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    Zorya wrote: »
    Right yeah because people annoying you by talking back to you on an anonymous forum when you don't want them to is any way comparable to sexual assault? Says it all really.

    Remember now, the ''Anyway back to #MeToo'' is the contextualising part of the sentence - #PatronisingExplanationWordsConcepts

    Do you have another conversation piece beyond “Are you comparing (whatever someone is talking about) to rape??” Change the record like. It’s been said multiple times to you in this thread, you’re the only one making weird comparisons here. It’s a bit mental tbh, sorry.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 119 ✭✭emptyhouse2222


    this is the beginning of metoo
    tiandra kelley

    rs_600x600-171219134103-600-tarana-burke-600x300.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,228 ✭✭✭BBFAN


    this is the beginning of metoo
    tiandra kelley

    rs_600x600-171219134103-600-tarana-burke-600x300.jpg

    What exactly is your point in posting a photo?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    backspin. wrote: »
    I can't believe this is even debated.

    I'm sure an actual rape victim would swap their experience for a nip on the bum without question. It's grotesque to even compare them.

    Agreed and it’s this that I hate most about metoo.

    We have degrees of murder for god’s sake, why can’t we have degrees here?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,228 ✭✭✭BBFAN


    Agreed and it’s this that I hate most about metoo.

    We have degrees of murder for god’s sake, why can’t we have degrees here?

    We do have degrees though?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Zorya


    leggo wrote: »
    Do you have another conversation piece beyond “Are you comparing (whatever someone is talking about) to rape??” Change the record like. It’s been said multiple times to you in this thread, you’re the only one making weird comparisons here. It’s a bit mental tbh, sorry.

    Um no actually it has also been said in the wikipedia entry under ''Me Too'' which I posted earlier. Both sexual harrassment including minor incidents and sexual assault up to full blown rape are conflated under MeToo. I wonder how the poor young girl from Germany who was brutally raped in the inner city a few days ago feels about Georgina from the typing pool saying ''Me Too'' because Barry from accounts once said she had perky tits.

    Sure, it would be great if the world was really 'nice' and people never sexually harrassed anybody else, and sexual bullying is hateful and aught to be stopped, but my guess is that as long as humans have willies and fannies there is going to be some level of sexual messiness.

    And I could not give less of a single flying feck about what others say to me about my opinions on forums, because I feel I am correct in my opinion in this case. Others are entitled to their opinions, and guess what, Leggo, I am entitled to mine. They may indeed be more correct than I - I honestly do not know how my opinions will change over time - but in this case I am, as of now, absolutely convinced that conflating brutality with annoyance is a big problem. It just seems logical to me to hold that opinion. And all your condescension does not seem to change my stance, weirdly enough.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 119 ✭✭emptyhouse2222


    BBFAN wrote: »
    What exactly is your point in posting a photo?
    my point is that this is the woman who started metoo


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,228 ✭✭✭BBFAN


    my point is that this is the woman who started metoo

    Yeah right. :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,061 ✭✭✭leggo


    Zorya wrote: »
    Um no actually it has also been said in the wikipedia entry under ''Me Too'' which I posted earlier. Both sexual harrassment including minor incidents and sexual assault up to full blown rape are conflated under MeToo. I wonder how the poor young girl from Germany who was brutally raped in the inner city a few days ago feels about Georgina from the typing pool saying ''Me Too'' because Barry from accounts once said she had perky tits.

    Sure, it would be great if the world was really 'nice' and people never sexually harrassed anybody else, and sexual bullying is hateful and aught to be stopped, but my guess is that as long as humans have willies and fannies there is going to be some level of sexual messiness.

    And I could not give less of a single flying feck about what others say to me about my opinions on forums, because I feel I am correct in my opinion in this case. Others are entitled to their opinions, and guess what, Leggo, I am entitled to mine. They may indeed be more correct than I - I honestly do not know how my opinions will change over time - but in this case I am, as of now, absolutely convinced that conflating brutality with annoyance is a big problem. It just seems logical to me to hold that opinion. And all your condescension does not seem to change my stance, weirdly enough.

    Most people take a measure of comfort in talking about bad experiences and seeing that they’re not alone or that the range of emotions they went through are natural. I think the people that have spoken to you here see it as natural to feel that way rather than compare.

    It depends on one’s viewpoint though. If someone went through a bad experience then heard people talking about someone else’s bad experience and thought “Wait why am I not getting all the sympathy or attention instead?” I guess that’d be possible, but it’d mean that getting sympathy and attention would be their priority. And I don’t mean that as a bad thing, it’s comforting to get sympathy and attention, and I guess natural to seek it in light of experiencing something harrowing. Or they may not want to talk about it at all and resent people who do because it makes them relive their own experience. That’s fine too, but it also comes with the presumption that the world should share their coping mechanisms, which is kind of like telling someone how they should handle the death of a loved one. Some like to talk and let it out, others don’t, neither way is right or wrong. And you get to decide for yourself how you deal with your own bad experiences, but that freedom you enjoy also allows other people to do it their way too.

    To that point, it seems pretty disrespectful to compare notes. If someone’s auntie or second cousin or work colleague died and they were sad and wanted to talk about it, it’d be bad form to tell them your mother had died and you didn’t talk so they should shut up because you’ve had it worse. You can opt out and not be the one to comfort them if it makes you uncomfortable, you can block it all out entirely, but to judge others for how they react to bad situations they encounter? I mean you’re right when you say you’re entitled to do so, but others are also entitled to think you’re being a bit of a dick FOR doing so.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Zorya


    leggo wrote: »
    Most people take a measure of comfort in talking about bad experiences and seeing that they’re not alone or that the range of emotions they went through are natural. I think the people that have spoken to you here see it as natural to feel that way rather than compare.

    It depends on one’s viewpoint though. If someone went through a bad experience then heard people talking about someone else’s bad experience and thought “Wait why am I not getting all the sympathy or attention instead?” I guess that’d be possible, but it’d mean that getting sympathy and attention would be their priority. And I don’t mean that as a bad thing, it’s comforting to get sympathy and attention, and I guess natural to seek it in light of experiencing something harrowing. Or they may not want to talk about it at all and resent people who do because it makes them relive their own experience. That’s fine too, but it also comes with the presumption that the world should share their coping mechanisms, which is kind of like telling someone how they should handle the death of a loved one. Some like to talk and let it out, others don’t, neither way is right or wrong. And you get to decide for yourself how you deal with your own bad experiences, but that freedom you enjoy also allows other people to do it their way too.

    To that point, it seems pretty disrespectful to compare notes. If someone’s auntie or second cousin or work colleague died and they were sad and wanted to talk about it, it’d be bad form to tell them your mother had died and you didn’t talk so they should shut up because you’ve had it worse. You can opt out and not be the one to comfort them if it makes you uncomfortable, you can block it all out entirely, but to judge others for how they react to bad situations they encounter? I mean you’re right when you say you’re entitled to do so, but others are also entitled to think you’re being a bit of a dick FOR doing so.


    Yeesh. I'm not saying people should not speak of their uncomfortable experiences and I would be very sympathetic to them, harassment or bullying is disgusting. It's not in the same ballpark as aggravated sexual violence, that's all.

    Let us agree to disagree. You are perfectly entitled to think I am a dick, no worries. But regardless I'm weary now of the back and forth. Go forth and prosper.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    I don't think there is one person in the entire world that thinks rape and groping are the same. But like why should women just shut up about being groped or embarrassed by sexual comments directed at them or told we must be nice to sleezy client because said client is so important to the company or having Billy Fool slapping their bottom because it's just so peachy he can't help himself or being asked what size bra they are wearing cause all the lads have a bet on about it. These are stories my immediate friends have shared. Who says we can't talk about that. Is there some law that I don't know about that says telling these experiences isn't allowed. If one man is mugged and another man is murdered, should the mugged man just shut up and count his blessings. How does his talking about his trauma in any way lessen the far worse case of murder.


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