Donegal Asylum Centre Torched

Shenshen · 25-11-2018 5:15pm

mammajamma wrote: »

Any comment on the particular details, or do you make similar generic comments on any old fire anywhere anytime?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this isn't just "any old fire", it's an arson attack. A deliberate one, willfully endangering human life.

It's cowardly, despicable and low. And I do hope they catch the perpetrators and lock them up.

dav3 · 25-11-2018 5:18pm

mammajamma wrote: »

Any comment on the particular details, or do you make similar generic comments on any old fire anywhere anytime?

The particular details are that someone tried to burn down a building with two people asleep inside. There’s not much else to say is there?

strandroad · 25-11-2018 5:19pm

Red and Green wrote: »

Why are halting sites and migrant centres never put in affluent areas in Dublin? Surely the irish Times readers would be happy to experience some diversity?

There are numerous halting sites in South Dublin actually. I could name four that you can basically see from the dart alone. Not sure about migrant centres.

mammajamma · 25-11-2018 5:20pm

Shenshen wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this isn't just "any old fire", it's an arson attack. A deliberate one, willfully endangering human life.

It's cowardly, despicable and low. And I do hope they catch the perpetrators and lock them up.

Okay, I'll explicitly state the obvious. Forgive me for assuming "goes without saying".

Yes, an arson fire. I don't agree with it in principle, but I do question the reasons and history behind it.

Now. Any comment to make on the particular details? The bigger picture?

Do you agree with these centres being set up where they are, and how they are?

CinemaGuy45 · 25-11-2018 5:22pm

mammajamma wrote: »

Okay, I'll explicitly state the obvious. Forgive me for assuming "goes without saying".

Yes, an arson fire. I don't agree with it in principle, but I do question the reasons and history behind it.

Now. Any comment to make on the particular details? The bigger picture?

Do you agree with these centres being set up where they are, and how they are?

Yes, they agree with the centres just not on their doorstep.:D

_Brian · 25-11-2018 5:26pm

I’ve no problem with genuine caes. They need to be promptly assessed and decisions made no matter how tough.
People who need help should get help. I think the responsibility should be back on those claiming asylum to prove they have an entitlement. Coming here saying it’s dangerous back home isn’t sufficient.

After that give them asylum and get them working, they’re not entitled to SW supports until they have 104 weeks contributions made.

This current scenario where we rack and stack them in expensive centres with no decision for years on end while they can’t work is stupid and costly.

Shenshen · 25-11-2018 5:27pm

mammajamma wrote: »

Okay, I'll explicitly state the obvious. Forgive me for assuming "goes without saying".

Yes, an arson fire. I don't agree with it in principle, but I do question the reasons and history behind it.

Now. Any comment to make on the particular details? The bigger picture?

Do you agree with these centres being set up where they are, and how they are?

Can I please check that I understand this correctly - you're doubting that arson and potential homicide should always be condemned? That given the right political reason, they can be excused?

I don't know enough about the particular case you're referring to. The articles you linked quoted several local citizens who were looking forward to welcoming the asylum seekers and were organising support groups for them, so based on this I'm not sure what problem you seem to be seeing?

mammajamma · 25-11-2018 5:28pm

dav3 wrote: »

The particular details are that someone tried to burn down a building with two people asleep inside. There’s not much else to say is there?

Hundreds of hours and thousands of detailed pages of reports on an assassination that involved multiple complex motivations and far-reaching consequences nationally and internationally.

After hours detective is hired to unravel the mystery.

Conclusion "A bloke was shot."

The above post is such an unbelievable attempt to side-step reality its funny

Have a like!

UrbanFret · 25-11-2018 5:28pm

Why are we taking them in anyway? They are not Europeans so I doubt we are under any obligation to take them in unless a moral one.

mammajamma · 25-11-2018 5:29pm

Shenshen wrote: »

Can I please check that I understand this correctly - you're doubting that arson and potential homicide should always be condemned? That given the right political reason, they can be excused?

Im glad you checked, because youre wrong. That is not what I said, at the very least not what I meant.

Now, for the third time, anything to say about the bigger picture of this, beyond "arson is bad"?

Will I Am Not · 25-11-2018 5:32pm

There’s an easy solution to all this. Why not place all refugees/economic migrants with the right on, leafy suburb inhabitants that are all for it? Instead of in the nasty, racist, working class towns or insular, small town, bog spots?

Atoms for Peace · 25-11-2018 5:32pm

Poll is a bit pants. Most people wouldn't have a problem with genuine cases from actual war zones such as Syria and the Congo, but from Brazil and S. Africa is just taking the piss.

Shenshen · 25-11-2018 5:32pm

mammajamma wrote: »

Im glad you checked, because youre wrong. That is not what I said, at the very least not what I meant.

Now, for the third time, anything to say about the bigger picture of this, beyond "arson is bad"?

What bigger picture are you talking about, exactly?
You posted a link about a community preparing to welcome refugees, and another one on a criminal arson attack.

I'm happy that the locals organised support groups and were looking forward to contributing and helping the people who were set to arrive.
I'm worried that someone then set fire to a building people were sleeping in.

Does this address it for you?

Shenshen · 25-11-2018 5:34pm

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

Poll is a bit pants. Most people wouldn't have a problem with genuine cases from actual war zones such as Syria and the Congo, but from Brazil and S. Africa is just taking the piss.

I don't know - given Brazil's history, and given it's current possible political future, I would not be fast to doubt that there may well be people living there genuinely fearing for their lives and safety because of their political convictions.

Spanish Eyes · 25-11-2018 5:34pm

We need a Brexit type Withdrawal Agreement, control of our borders now!

Honestly does anyone in control actually realise the sheer neck of some of them arriving here. Doubt there are many direct flights from Lagos, or Islamabad or wherever.

OK to take in the agreed UN vetted people from Syria, but the rest of them are just pure chancers. Aided and abetted by the Government, the Lawyers, the Immigrants Rights Council and so on.

I say holding bays should be built somewhere near Dublin Airport. Fast track processing and off you go, or stay if you are considered genuine. What's wrong with that?

Atoms for Peace · 25-11-2018 5:37pm

Shenshen wrote: »

I don't know - given Brazil's history, and given it's current possible political future, I would not be fast to doubt that there may well be people living there genuinely fearing for their lives and safety because of their political convictions.

Good point and they would probably fit into the local community a lot easier coming from a country with a similar culture and religion.

mammajamma · 25-11-2018 5:39pm

Shenshen wrote: »

What bigger picture are you talking about, exactly?
You posted a link about a community preparing to welcome refugees, and another one on a criminal arson attack.

I'm happy that the locals organised support groups and were looking forward to contributing and helping the people who were set to arrive.
I'm worried that someone then set fire to a building people were sleeping in.

Does this address it for you?

I think you are entirely disingenuous, attempting to paint a picture of rainbows and unicorns in direct opposition to reality. The fact that a bunch of the same posters are basically saying nothing, yet backing up each others comments that are saying nothing actually does say a lot. It just so happens to reinforce the complete opposite of the desired effect

No, your comment doesnt address it for me. And that's fine, I wont be wasting my time responding to you. All's good.

dav3 · 25-11-2018 5:49pm

mammajamma wrote: »

Hundreds of hours and thousands of detailed pages of reports on an assassination that involved multiple complex motivations and far-reaching consequences nationally and internationally.

After hours detective is hired to unravel the mystery.

Conclusion "A bloke was shot."

The above post is such an unbelievable attempt to side-step reality its funny Have a like!

Even after that rant, the most important aspect of the story is still someone tried to burn down a building with people sleeping inside.

We get it though lads. People on their 50th account riling each other up over foreigners. Some bright spark pops up to tell us ‘nobody is listening to the poor people of <insert town name here>’. Another pops up telling us ‘this is how trump won’. Another has a rant at the ‘liberal media/government’. Another posts a 40 hour long YouTube video from a far-right American.

Finally topped off with them circle jerking each other over how Ireland needs change and they just happen to know the non-registered political party to solve the problem.

Change the f*cking record. You lads are going backwards.

Shenshen · 25-11-2018 5:49pm

mammajamma wrote: »

I think you are entirely disingenuous, attempting to paint a picture of rainbows and unicorns in direct opposition to reality. The fact that a bunch of the same posters are basically saying nothing, yet backing up each others comments that are saying nothing actually does say a lot. It just so happens to reinforce the complete opposite of the desired effect

No, your comment doesnt address it for me. And that's fine, I wont be wasting my time responding to you. All's good.

Well, here's a thought : Instead of aggressively name-calling posters, how about you actually state what reality looks like for you? Seeing as it's apparently "directly opposed" to what it looks like for me?
You have linked two articles, which I commented on. I really cannot reply to something you haven't even posted, I'm not a mind reader.

mammajamma · 25-11-2018 5:52pm

Crann na Beatha wrote: »

I do foresee a lot of social problems with government policies such as this, however, you can't condone wanton criminality like this.
There are democratic means to voice your disapproval.
Use them!

This is getting to the heart of the matter.

When democratic action is effectively taken from you, what then?

These communities, as stated in the news report, were the "last to know". Their concerns are completely ignored. There is no sought out consensus.

That these small communities also happen to have to have the least say politically in any situation, are the least capable, and (apparently) are provided with no extra resources, just hammers it all home.

There is no choice in the matter for these communities. So, what happens in the vacuum of representation? In this articular case, outright arson.

The whole thing is fundamentally broken. Where is the democracy in this situation?

Shenshen · 25-11-2018 5:52pm

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

Good point and they would probably fit into the local community a lot easier coming from a country with a similar culture and religion.

In my experience, cultures and religions can change amazingly fast. They can go from being highly conservative and restrictive (see Ireland in the 60s) to very open and welcoming (see Ireland now). Unfortunately, they can also change very fast in the other direction. If you compare Iran in the 1960s to now, the development was just as fast if not faster, but giong the complete opposite direction.

Either way, they're certainly not immutable,

mammajamma · 25-11-2018 5:54pm

Shenshen wrote: »

Well, here's a thought : Instead of aggressively name-calling posters, how about you actually state what reality looks like for you? Seeing as it's apparently "directly opposed" to what it looks like for me?
You have linked two articles, which I commented on. I really cannot reply to something you haven't even posted, I'm not a mind reader.

Youre going to have to back-track there, pal. Where did I "aggressively name-call" anyone here?

Besides that, I'm not here to play games with your stated puzzlement as to what everone else is talking about.

EDIT: Any luck with backing up your imagination on the "aggressive name-calling" yet? Maybe you could apologise for the insinuation? Either way, a conversation with people who "imagine" things isn't going anywhere, and just so happens to be entirely relevant to your "interpretations" of the topic at hand.

Ally Dick · 25-11-2018 6:11pm

The Grand Hotel in Wicklow will be next. Someone will ring in a bomb scare, to empty out the place. Afterwards someone is lighting matches inside

mammajamma · 25-11-2018 6:15pm

Ally Dick wrote: »

The Grand Hotel in Wicklow will be next. Someone will ring in a bomb scare, to empty out the place. Afterwards someone is lighting matches inside

I don't want that kind of thing to be happening. But i'm not some short-sighted fool either, I can see how the situation is leading to outcome.

The bigger picture that some people just wont publicly admit even exists. See this thread for examples.

paw patrol · 25-11-2018 6:29pm

kneemos wrote: »

From what I read last week loads of folk in the town were in favour of using the Hotel for asylum seekers.

Have you got the actual figures for and against?

mammajamma wrote: »

Seeing as these communities are so small, how long would a door-to-door consensus take?

1 day?

Why haven't the government done that? If theres so much support, surely they would welcome such a solid consensus, no?

**Evil Conspiracy**
They know fully well that the vast majority of people don't want this in their community, and therefore are too clever to actually "ask". You know, that pesky democracy thing, tsk!

there was a video online last week of a local meeting about it , the people were very much in the dark about it.
Some man was there from the government - telling the people they were wrong and had been fully informed yet the people were saying they weren't.

Finally a man spoke , a founder member of the Irish Refuge council who outlined how he founded this group yet was forced out by an invasion of the left liberal brigade who hijacked it for the own agenda.

https://youtu.be/O-ea4hSX3JQ

mammajamma · 25-11-2018 6:30pm

dav3 wrote: »

Well the first step would be to condem an arson attack I would have thought. I think most reasonable intelligent people would condem it.

Leave the dregs of Irish society to applaud it. They’re going nowhere, except prison. Just like their parents and grandparents before them.

And the last step too, according to some! (yourself included)

mammajamma · 25-11-2018 6:32pm

paw patrol wrote: »

there was a video online last week of a local meeting about it , the people were very much in the dark about it.
Some man was there from the government - telling the people they were wrong and had been fully informed yet the people were saying they weren't.

Finally a man spoke , a founder member of the Irish Refuge council who outlined how he founded this group yet was forced out by an invasion of the left liberal brigade who hijacked it for the own agenda.

Yep, apparently the locals were left talking about it way after the government/NGO people had legged it too.

"here, this is happening, bye"

Sounds legit!

Varik · 25-11-2018 6:36pm

dav3 wrote: »

Well the first step would be to condem an arson attack I would have thought. I think most reasonable intelligent people would condem it.

Leave the dregs of Irish society to applaud it. They’re going nowhere, except prison. Just like their parents and grandparents before them.

Pretty sure those manor house burning grandparents won out in the end.

Ally Dick · 25-11-2018 6:38pm

At the meeting over the Grand Hotel, which was live on YouTube, the councillors were warned that they were going to be wiped out in the next election if this went ahead, and they will!

Discodog · 25-11-2018 6:49pm

Who would I rather live next to ? An asylum seeker or a racist bigot that supports criminality ? I hope the locals won't mind when all the illegal Irish immigrants are returned to Donegal.

Donegal Asylum Centre Torched

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