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Woman Loses Job for Holding Gender Critical Opinions.

  • 05-05-2019 10:35am
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭


    Maya Forstater is a internationally renowned researcher on Tax Avoidance, who worked until recently at the London office of the Centre for Global Development (CGD) think tank.

    In March she wrote an article calling for open debate about the consequences of Gender Self ID, particularly with respect to the implications for women. She says womanhood is defined by biological fact not by feeling.

    This is the article.
    https://medium.com/@MForstater/international-development-lets-talk-about-sex-eb9de927c787

    She has been fired from her position on the grounds that she used ''offensive and exclusionary language'' and that she is ''fear-mongering''.

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tax-expert-fired-for-saying-trans-women-aren-t-women-tpqgnm9vj
    Forstater said: “I support transgender people’s human rights and I believe that trans people are vulnerable, but no one group should overrerule others. I lost my job for speaking up about women’s rights, in a careful way and in a tone of ordinary discussion and disagreement. I worked for a think tank and I thought you ought to be able to think and talk about things. I found out I was wrong about that.”

    She is backed by Index on Censorship, whose director, Jodie Ginsberg, said: “From what I have read of her writing, I cannot see that Maya has done anything wrong other than express an opinion that many feminists share — that there should be a public and open debate about the distinction between sex and gender.”
    In an email, a CGD manager said: “You stated that a man’s internal feeling that he is a woman has no basis in material reality. A lot of people would find that offensive and exclusionary.”

    She is taking her employer to court to argue that ...
    no one should be discriminated against for having gender critical views, and talking about them.

    If we can establish that gender critical beliefs are protected under the Equality Act 2010, this would help protect others who are afraid of losing their jobs because of the beliefs they hold, and also those facing belief discrimination outside the employment field.

    https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/fired-maya/

    When people are so gleeful about certain opinions being censored on internet platfroms, remember that censorship can extend exponentially. Their opinions censored today, yours tomorrow. Their job today, yours tomorrow.

    Biological facts are now a reason for censorship and job loss.
    Post edited by Mickeroo on


«13456740

Comments

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,103 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Thought crime.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,988 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Agh we just finished with the last gender thread!!!

    I honestly don't see how bloody hard it is to use pronouns without making a ****ing political point.

    That said, someone's viewpoints should not be used for employment proceedings unless a) they advocate violence or extreme hate-speech, or b) they bring them into the workplace environment and start using it as soapbox.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,521 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    Ah, so there’s the consequences of free speech I keep hearing about. Good to see it in action.

    The tide is turning…



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Zorya


    Agh we just finished with the last gender thread!!!

    I honestly don't see how bloody hard it is to use pronouns without making a ****ing political point.

    That said, someone's viewpoints should not be used for employment proceedings unless a) they advocate violence or extreme hate-speech, or b) they bring them into the workplace environment and start using it as soapbox.

    The gender threads will continue Princess because it is a major human rights issue in the present time. The erasure of women and especially lesbians is ongoing so the discussions should continue.

    The issue is not about mere pronouns, that is completely reductive. You would have to read the source material to see its scope. It is about bodily integrity, safe spaces, fairness in sports, among other important issues. No one gives a continental damn about mere pronouns.


  • Registered Users Posts: 933 ✭✭✭El_Bee


    She should have thought about that before having illegal opinions.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    What is her view on lesbians sharing space and services that women use?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭98q76e12hrflnk


    The liberals are the true fascist


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Zorya


    YFlyer wrote: »
    What is her view on lesbians sharing space and services that women use?

    :confused::confused::confused:
    Are you kidding around?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    'This can lead to situations where lesbians face social pressure to have sex with men who identify as women'

    Do women have a mind of their own?


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    Zorya wrote: »
    :confused::confused::confused:
    Are you kidding around?

    Read her article.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 32,988 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Zorya wrote: »
    The gender threads will continue Princess because it is a major human rights issue in the present time. The erasure of women and especially lesbians is ongoing so the discussions should continue.
    Yeah, I know, I wasn't being serious!
    The issue is not about mere pronouns, that is completely reductive. You would have to read the source material to see its scope. It is about bodily integrity, safe spaces, fairness in sports, among other important issues. No one gives a continental damn about mere pronouns.

    When I say "right" pronouns, I mean the requested ones. The person in the body is going to be in a better position to know which pronouns are the most apt. But believe me, it starts with the pronouns.

    What I believe we're talking about here is TERF as opposed to gender identity. I've heard it argued (although not really researched it, to be fair so am not condoning the opinion) that it's just another form of transphobia.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Site Banned Posts: 51 ✭✭Brendan Delaney


    A man cannot turn himself into a woman, no matter what the progressive Taliban types want us to believe.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    It’s starting to look like women are the losers in this. They are further down the hierarchy of victimhood than they once were.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,237 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    While this is a really important topic, and one she should certainly not have lost her job for, this thread is just going to descend in to the usual Transpeople bashing.
    A man cannot turn himself into a woman, no matter what the progressive Taliban types want us to believe.

    Oh wait, there it is.


  • Site Banned Posts: 51 ✭✭Brendan Delaney


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    While this is a really important topic, and one she should certainly not have lost her job for, this thread is just going to descend in to the usual Transpeople bashing.



    Oh wait, there it is.

    Get over yourself.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Zorya


    YFlyer wrote: »
    'This can lead to situations where lesbians face social pressure to have sex with men who identify as women'

    Do women have a mind of their own?

    I sincerely doubt any woman who is a lesbian is going to have sex with a person with a penis just because said penis haver has said they are a woman. But then again, maybe I am incorrect on that, maybe some do. Having said that there is a growing movement called Get The L Out, because of the cotton ceiling crap and because women holding Lesbians Don't Have Penises signs are not welcome at Pride parades. In fact they are being bodily removed by police for daring to think such things. I think the world has gone mad. Lesbians like women!

    Yesterday at Swansea Pride, the police engaged a lesbian who had a sign saying Transactivism erases lesbians...

    D5yHI_8X4AAPkdW.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5yHI_8X4AAPkdW.jpg

    Otherwise, the police were having family friendly fun in Swansea...
    D5ywx6RW4AIU3AM.jpg

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D5ywx6RW4AIU3AM.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,759 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It’s starting to look like women are the losers in this. They are further down the hierarchy of victimhood than they once were.

    Nah. Irish women reject this exclusionary nonsense

    https://feministire.com/2018/01/22/an-open-letter-to-the-organisers-of-the-we-need-to-talk-tour-from-a-group-of-feminists-in-ireland/

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,056 ✭✭✭Augme


    I'd have fired her for stupidity over any thing else. This has to one of the dumbest things I have ever read
    This can lead to situations where lesbians face social pressure to have sex with men who identify as women


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    El_Bee wrote: »
    She should have thought about that before having illegal opinions.


    It is not illegal to have an opinion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    YFlyer wrote: »
    'This can lead to situations where lesbians face social pressure to have sex with men who identify as women'

    Do women have a mind of their own?

    Well in the US those women would be labelled transphopic


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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Augme wrote: »
    I'd have fired her for stupidity over any thing else. This has to one of the dumbest things I have ever read
    nothing wrong with a bit of girl dick


  • Registered Users Posts: 933 ✭✭✭El_Bee


    STB. wrote: »
    It is not illegal to have an opinion.


    It should be in some cases, in many ways free speech was a mistake.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Zorya


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    While this is a really important topic, and one she should certainly not have lost her job for,.

    This is the point. She nor anyone else should lose their job for having opinions about this issue that are contradictory to what is politically acceptable. It is a very dangerous road to go down. Frightening really.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,841 ✭✭✭Squatter


    YFlyer wrote: »

    Do women have a mind of their own?

    Kindly define "women" for me.

    I'd hate to post an opinion that might get me into trouble with Terry the Budgie.


  • Registered Users Posts: 531 ✭✭✭Candamir


    YFlyer wrote: »
    'This can lead to situations where lesbians face social pressure to have sex with men who identify as women'

    Do women have a mind of their own?
    Augme wrote: »
    I'd have fired her for stupidity over any thing else. This has to one of the dumbest things I have ever read

    Go and have a look at some of the lesbian bashing on twitter. Apparently lesbians need to learn to like dick, and if they don’t, they’re transphobes.

    I’m no expert, but I always thought the reason they were lesbian was because they don’t like dick. Totally confused now. That must make me a TERF too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,194 ✭✭✭Zorya


    Candamir wrote: »
    Go and have a look at some of the lesbian bashing on twitter. Apparently lesbians need to learn to like dick, and if they don’t, they’re transphobes.

    I’m no expert, but I always thought the reason they were lesbian was because they don’t like dick. Totally confused now. That must make me a TERF too.

    I find it odd that there is not such a big push towards gay guys having to consider men with pussies and boobs as sexually desirable. It's almost as if this is men telling women (again) what they should and should not like.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Once again, a person was allowed an opinion and faced the consequences of having that opinion.

    Saying things have consequences!

    I'm free to call my boss all manners of names to their face, however the consequence would be that I'd probably get sacked.

    I don't get how people have forgotten that consequences are actual things!


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,056 ✭✭✭Augme


    Candamir wrote: »
    Go and have a look at some of the lesbian bashing on twitter. Apparently lesbians need to learn to like dick, and if they don’t, they’re transphobes.

    I’m no expert, but I always thought the reason they were lesbian was because they don’t like dick. Totally confused now. That must make me a TERF too.


    Well, if it's on Twitter....


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,521 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    People need to decide whether they want to be in politics or work in the private sector. All this soap boxing smacks of desperation to get some sort of 15 minutes of Twitter fame.

    I can’t believe this woman thought her opinion was going to be met with resounding applause. There’s an appetite in the corporate world for inclusion and recognition, it’s good PR, and she would have been aware of this.

    The tide is turning…



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    El_Bee wrote: »
    It should be in some cases, in many ways free speech was a mistake.

    There's a very big difference in having a discussion about a topic that many people have different view about and going out shouting 'kill the gays, kill the nigg3rs, kill the Irish'.

    They are two very different things.

    If what that lady said can be considered hate speech, we are really fcuked.


This discussion has been closed.
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