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Gangland Shootings [Mod Note in Post #1]

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Comments

  • #2252
    Commanchie
    Registered Users Posts: 548 ✭✭✭Commanchie


    begbysback wrote: »
    Wouldn't say his assumptions are outlandish.

    Regarding the legal aspects of murder by proxy, did I not read cases previous where people were considered working on behalf of the state when committing serious crimes had some sort of immunity? Maybe it was cases in the north during the troubles, or might have been in another country.


    In this country proxy has been used. Its yet to be tried in a court. Paddy hutch CANNOT be found guilty and in december this will become public knowledge.


  • #2253
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users Posts: 7,793 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    mynamejeff wrote: »
    he isnt aware of the details either

    he is just a fantasist who is pretending he knows people and details

    That's a really interesting contribution jeff, nice one.

    Oh, hang on a second is your real name jeff?

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • #2254
    paw patrol
    Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭paw patrol


    the kinahan cartel are an intriguing bunch .

    I always thought ordering indebted junkies and cowboys to do their hits was amateur stuff but today takes the biscuit....

    a fcukin blind hitman , you couldn't make that **** up


  • #2255
    mynamejeff
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,315 ✭✭✭mynamejeff


    Rows Grower wrote: »
    That's a really interesting contribution jeff, nice one.

    Oh, hang on a second is your real name jeff?

    no mate it gerry ..... of course


  • #2256
    Odelay
    Registered Users Posts: 3,783 ✭✭✭Odelay


    paw patrol wrote: »
    the kinahan cartel are an intriguing bunch .

    I always thought ordering indebted junkies and cowboys to do their hits was amateur stuff but today takes the biscuit....

    a fcukin blind hitman , you couldn't make that **** up

    They should send them off for a medical before employing, amateurs.


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  • #2257
    Sgt Hartman
    Registered Users Posts: 2,437 ✭✭✭Sgt Hartman


    It's absolutely embarrassing that it's been allowed to get this bad in such a short space of time. And by the looks of it it's only going to get worse.
    The government don't care as they're only interested in pandering to themselves, their friends and their EU masters. They're all in bed with each other. Also there's too many do gooders in this country aiding and abetting this madness. RTE are a prime example, constantly pushing the pro immigration agenda whilst bullying people with their threatening TV license ads. As a result we're now stuck with a problem that could have been preventable if we weren't so soft as a nation.
    It's bad enough having our own home grown criminal gangs without letting 2nd/3rd generation immigrant gangs take hold here.


  • #2258
    Conservative
    Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭Conservative


    I don't get the commuter train very often these days but I was flabbergasted by the numbers of Africans disembarking at Balbriggan a few years ago. Anybody who hasn't witnessed it before would be shocked. What on earth are we doing creating ghettos like this?

    We have enough problems of our own to deal with without importing the third world's castoffs. For every decent looking kid or student I saw there were many more who resembled the people in that video. Anyone who has spent time in London or Paris knows what these "refugees" bring to our countries.

    I have no problem with sensible immigration and welcome it but we need a strict policy where we return to sender anyone who takes advantage of our generosity.

    Repaying our country with behaviour like that is unacceptable.


  • #2259
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users Posts: 28,647 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    blinding wrote: »
    ^^^^^ We need to change our Politicians if we want to Stop Mass immigration .

    Nothing Else is going to stop it .

    The Italians change their Politicians and the lunacy that was going on in the Meditteraenean (?) sea stopped almost immediately .

    If ya want change , change the Politicians . The lesson is there for all to see .

    I completely agree, but the problem here is (and it's been like this for decades) that we have extremely poor choices when it comes to political parties and candidates.

    You have FG headed by a social media obsessed spin master, more concerned with optics and his personal profile (says it all in that regard when his twitter handle, as Taoiseach, is "campaignforLeo"). Alongside him you have the likes of Coveney who is wholly beholden to the EU and Zappone who has been able to leverage her personal agenda and Americanised ideology since she agreed to prop up FG (Thank you Enda Kenny and his crusade to make "records" for himself at the expense of the country).

    Then you have FF who have largely stagnated in the last 8 years and still untouchable for many voters as too many of their last government are still lingering around, and Micheal Martin can't seem to even contest with the aforementioned FG spinmaster.

    SF are equally unpalatable because of their legacy and belief that voters in the Republic really consider a united Ireland as a key issue (they don't.. At least not beyond a "sure, be great yea" notion - certainty not if they were asked to pay to support it through higher taxes, and the security issues that would likely follow). Then there's the point that SF have no idea how to run a FDI dependent country of course.

    Labour are as unpalatable as FF as they're seen as having sold out to become FG-lite in the last Government. Renua and the Greens are also going nowhere (the latter still associated with the last FF administration).

    What's left?. .. Independents who are in many cases just cast-offs from the Big 2, or one issue crusaders. Then there's the alphabet soup of left wingers whose only useful purpose has been to hold FG to some sort of account.

    But we can't entirely blame the parties and the politicians for all this. After all, they are merely the product of the electorate.... An electorate that in most cases is disinterested, deeply parochial and divided (look how easy it is to start an "us vs them" argument on anything), and who still admire greatly the "cute hoor" (how else could some of our TD's continue to be elected) and secretly admit that they would do exactly the same things that they profess outrage over whenever the latest scandal comes to light.

    A change in political parties and personalities is badly needed yes, but first we need to change in how we engage with politics ourselves.


  • #2260
    Conservative
    Registered Users Posts: 596 ✭✭✭Conservative


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    I completely agree, but the problem here is (and it's been like this for decades) that we have extremely poor choices when it comes to political parties and candidates.

    You have FG headed by a social media obsessed spin master, more concerned with optics and his personal profile (says it all in that regard when his twitter handle, as Taoiseach, is "campaignforLeo"). Alongside him you have the likes of Coveney who is wholly beholden to the EU and Zappone who has been able to leverage her personal agenda and Americanised ideology since she agreed to prop up FG (Thank you Enda Kenny and his crusade to make "records" for himself at the expense of the country).

    Then you have FF who have largely stagnated in the last 8 years and still untouchable for many voters as too many of their last government are still lingering around, and Micheal Martin can't seem to even contest with the aforementioned FG spinmaster.

    SF are equally unpalatable because of their legacy and belief that voters in the Republic really consider a united Ireland as a key issue (they don't.. At least not beyond a "sure, be great yea" notion - certainty not if they were asked to pay to support it through higher taxes, and the security issues that would likely follow). Then there's the point that SF have no idea how to run a FDI dependent country of course.

    Labour are as unpalatable as FF as they're seen as having sold out to become FG-lite in the last Government. Renua and the Greens are also going nowhere (the latter still associated with the last FF administration).

    What's left?. .. Independents who are in many cases just cast-offs from the Big 2, or one issue crusaders. Then there's the alphabet soup of left wingers whose only useful purpose has been to hold FG to some sort of account.

    But we can't entirely blame the parties and the politicians for all this. After all, they are merely the product of the electorate.... An electorate that in most cases is disinterested, deeply parochial and divided (look how easy it is to start an "us vs them" argument on anything), and who still admire greatly the "cute hoor" (how else could some of our TD's continue to be elected) and secretly admit that they would do exactly the same things that they profess outrage over whenever the latest scandal comes to light.

    A change in political parties and personalities is badly needed yes, but first we need to change in how we engage with politics ourselves.

    Great post. We need a legitimate alternative - an actual workers party.

    The pro Catholicism anti abortion stance of Renua is not palatable to many on the "right" in this country.

    I think Casey's inability to string a couple of coherent sentences together hurt him. He is not the person to lead a new party but a new way of thinking is badly needed. It's only a matter of time.

    Varadkar will be viewed with as much distain as Bertie. The biggest sellout of the lot.


  • #2261
    political analyst
    Registered Users Posts: 4,418 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Clytus wrote: »
    Do we have Mad Vic back on board? From what I've seen on Twitter she has bit of a hard on for Nicky!


    Who's Mad Vic?


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  • #2262
    political analyst
    Registered Users Posts: 4,418 ✭✭✭political analyst


    Is there any word on whether Fox and the Keogh siblings will be appealing their convictions?


  • #2263
    Commanchie
    Registered Users Posts: 548 ✭✭✭Commanchie


    political analyst wrote: »
    Is there any word on whether Fox and the Keogh siblings will be appealing their convictions?

    Appeals were lodged.


  • #2264
    Commanchie
    Registered Users Posts: 548 ✭✭✭Commanchie


    political analyst wrote: »
    Who's Mad Vic?

    Victoria andeenkova. Absolute nutball


  • #2265
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    assuming for a second this is true, does that make the people who committed that murder any less guilty?

    From my reading of the case, the issue here seems to be the identification of the people who committed the murder. Since this issue with Detective Fox is seemingly intertwined with whether Patrick Hutch was fairly identified from the photographs of the night, it seems to me that the issue here is whether or not certain members of AGS may have pulled an Ian Bailey on it and just decided to use the case as an excuse to go after Patrick Hutch because he was someone they didn't like and it seemed a convenient frame-up.

    I'm not in any way saying that this did happen, merely that that's what seems to me to be the allegation being made. Reading between the lines, the most likely reason that Colm Fox's death and the notes he wrote is being used as a potential defense by Hutch's team is that (a) the Gardaí decided "f*ck it, we hate this guy and he has an interest in going after the Kinahans after what happened to his cousin, so let's just claim we've identified him from the CCTV footage even if we have no idea who we're actually looking at", and (b) that Mr. Fox ultimately couldn't live with the guilt of participating in such a stitch-up.

    I have nothing to base this on other than the chain of events here, which is as follows:

    1: The defense raises questions over whether Hutch was reasonably identified from CCTV footage, or whether there was collusion / pre-suggestion among the Gardai to name him before anyone actually saw the photograph (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circumstances-of-identification-of-patrick-hutch-were-sullied-and-tainted-court-told-1.3364392 and https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/criminal-court/identification-of-patrick-hutch-unfair-regency-trial-hears-1.3365623)

    2: Det. Fox is found dead of a self-inflicted gunshot wound roughly two weeks later (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/regency-shooting-court-pays-tribute-to-lead-investigating-garda-1.3391049)

    3: The case is adjourned four days later on the basis of "unprecedented conundrums" and complications arising from his death and the notes which he wrote prior to it (https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/regency-trial-adjourned-due-to-unprecedented-conundrums-1.3397520 and https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/regency-trial-adjourned-after-late-investigating-detective-s-notes-handed-in-1.3401701)

    4: Possibly grandstanding / attention seeking, but interesting nonetheless - Gemma O'Doherty, journalist of recent presidential bid infamy, posts the following tweets:

    https://twitter.com/gemmaod1/status/966808880683671552

    and

    https://twitter.com/gemmaod1/status/967036387022254081?lang=en

    Piecing all of this together, my theory is that there may have been an Ian Bailey reminiscent conspiracy to say "F*ck it, it's as likely to have been him as anyone else and he's a pain in the hole, so let's just agree a line that he did it and stick to that". Det. Fox, by all accounts a good, honest and hardworking policeman, may have found himself in the position of having to either go along with this or risk being alienated and ostracised in the manner of Sgt. McCabe, and ultimately couldn't live with the pressure or guilt.

    We won't know for sure until the trial concludes and all of the evidence is (hopefully!) explained to the public, but if I had to guess, that'd be my #1 theory. Some of the other theories flying around, that he was actually in someone's pocket or in league with "Jaws" Byrne don't seem to gel with what initially caused a ruckus in the case just days before his death, which was whether or not Hutch was fairly recognised in the photo or whether people were "prompted" to say "oh yeah, it's him".


  • #2266
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    political analyst wrote: »
    Who's Mad Vic?

    She was in love with Gareth Hutch and Graham Dwyer. She's a very level headed individual whose theories about state agencies are completely legitimate.


  • #2267
    Commanchie
    Registered Users Posts: 548 ✭✭✭Commanchie


    Omackeral wrote: »
    She was in love with Gareth Hutch and Graham Dwyer. She's a very level headed individual whose theories about state agencies are completely legitimate.

    Had she a hard on for Gareth Hutcj too hahah


  • #2268
    Collie D
    Registered Users Posts: 11,295 ✭✭✭✭Collie D


    Commanchie wrote: »
    Have you heard that defence in his case?
    Have I said that will be applied?
    Am i referring to Paddy Hutch

    No
    No
    No

    Want to tell us what you're talking about then?


  • #2269
    Commanchie
    Registered Users Posts: 548 ✭✭✭Commanchie


    Collie D wrote: »
    Want to tell us what you're talking about then?

    According to people involved in the case (Which im not) on the eve afer the shooting in the regency allegedly Colm fox handed over CCTV footage of 5 people changing from cars after the shooting identifying to them who was involved.

    On the day of the trial he then handed over a USB of him being blackmailed by said gangster and said his explanation of the identifcation process was flawed.


  • #2270
    paw patrol
    Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭paw patrol


    Commanchie wrote: »
    According to people involved in the case (Which im not) on the eve afer the shooting in the regency allegedly Colm fox handed over CCTV footage of 5 people changing from cars after the shooting identifying to them who was involved.

    On the day of the trial he then handed over a USB of him being blackmailed by said gangster and said his explanation of the identifcation process was flawed.

    how did you come across this information? I'm genuinely curious.

    Certainly there are suspicions galore about the gardai but this info is pretty detailed.


  • #2271
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Commanchie wrote: »
    According to people involved in the case (Which im not) on the eve afer the shooting in the regency allegedly Colm fox handed over CCTV footage of 5 people changing from cars after the shooting identifying to them who was involved.

    On the day of the trial he then handed over a USB of him being blackmailed by said gangster and said his explanation of the identifcation process was flawed.

    Wait, who did he allegedly hand the CCTV to?


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  • #2272
    Commanchie
    Registered Users Posts: 548 ✭✭✭Commanchie


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Wait, who did he allegedly hand the CCTV to?

    Best just wait to see how this plans out will be all in the open soon.


  • #2273
    Tricky Dicky Ireland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 45 ✭Tricky Dicky Ireland


    Commanchie wrote: »
    According to people involved in the case (Which im not) on the eve afer the shooting in the regency allegedly Colm fox handed over CCTV footage of 5 people changing from cars after the shooting identifying to them who was involved.

    On the day of the trial he then handed over a USB of him being blackmailed by said gangster and said his explanation of the identifcation process was flawed.

    You talk some unbelievable amount of unsubstantiated ****e


  • #2274
    Commanchie
    Registered Users Posts: 548 ✭✭✭Commanchie


    Tricky Dicky Ireland wrote: »
    You talk some unbelievable amount of unsubstantiated ****e

    Goooood


  • #2275
    Commanchie
    Registered Users Posts: 548 ✭✭✭Commanchie


    Tricky Dicky Ireland wrote: »
    You talk some unbelievable amount of unsubstantiated ****e

    Quick scan of your posts. Is viktoria a friend of yours?


  • #2276
    Tricky Dicky Ireland
    Closed Accounts Posts: 45 ✭Tricky Dicky Ireland


    Commanchie wrote: »
    Quick scan of your posts. Is viktoria a friend of yours?

    As I said, you talk absolute and utter ****e..


  • #2277
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users Posts: 7,793 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    paw patrol wrote: »
    how did you come across this information? I'm genuinely curious.

    Certainly there are suspicions galore about the gardai but this info is pretty detailed.

    You expect to be told where this info came from?

    Seriously?

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • #2278
    paw patrol
    Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭paw patrol


    Rows Grower wrote: »
    You expect to be told where this info came from?

    Seriously?

    yeah I do
    an anonymous handle on a message board makes a claim without actually naming his source he can say where he heard it .
    Its' not that hard to do without betraying his source, it really isn't...

    "my mate in the garda told me" sounds better than the probable truth of "I heard it off a drunk at closing time".


  • #2279
    Jeff2
    Registered Users Posts: 6,972 ✭✭✭Jeff2


    All that info was in the press or on the news for a few days and then stopped.
    I'd guess by either a judge or guards.


  • #2280
    Rows Grower
    Registered Users Posts: 7,793 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    paw patrol wrote: »
    yeah I do
    an anonymous handle on a message board makes a claim without actually naming his source he can say where he heard it .
    Its' not that hard to do without betraying his source, it really isn't...

    "my mate in the garda told me" sounds better than the probable truth of "I heard it off a drunk at closing time".

    Okeydokey, let us know if you get any updates.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



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  • #2281
    paw patrol
    Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭paw patrol


    Rows Grower wrote: »
    Okeydokey, let us know if you get any updates.

    I don't think you read my reply properly.
    that's ok, carry on. keep liking any comment made by your other account.


This discussion has been closed.
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