World Atheist Convention hypocrisy.

Arcus Arrow · 02-04-2011 9:12pm #1

Another little bit of hypocrisy from the folks organising the "World" Atheist Convention.
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=192538870782352&sfrm

As soon as a post popped up questioning how it was organised they deleted it. This is from the same crowd who claimed to be against the blasphemy law on the basis of freedom of speech.

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Mena · 02-04-2011 9:18pm

I'm struggling to find my care face... A comment was deleted from some FB page? Who cares?

Or is there some back story I am missing?

Dades · 02-04-2011 9:29pm

Arcus Arrow, your complaint, without details or context is pointless.

Unless there's more information provided or something else useful I'd be inclined to close this thread.
There it is.

Arcus Arrow · 02-04-2011 9:29pm

Mena wrote: »

I'm struggling to find my care face... A comment was deleted from some FB page? Who cares?

Or is there some back story I am missing?

Well it's of some interest though hardly world shattering. It does have implications. You have an organisation supposedly campaigning for an "ethical" society engaging in the same type of censorship they claimed to be against. For people thinking of spending €100 for a ticket plus expenses it means being prevented from hearing any opinion or criticism they might want to consider. It's also indicative of how atheists, when organised, can take on all the affectations of organised religion (or at least in Ireland in this case).

Arcus Arrow · 02-04-2011 9:34pm

Dades wrote: »

Arcus Arrow, your complaint, without details or context is pointless.

Unless there's more information provided or something else useful I'd be inclined to close this thread.
There it is.

The comment deleted asked whether attending would lead to anyone hearing anything new that they couldn't get on YouTube for free. It also asked how many tickets have been sold. Naturally since they censored the comment it's hardly possible to provide a link to it. That's how censorship works.

Zillah · 02-04-2011 9:54pm

Censorship is when a government uses its power to restrict freedom of speech. A private organisation has no obligation to publish opinions on a page advertising their event.

Arcus Arrow · 02-04-2011 10:04pm

Zillah wrote: »

Censorship is when a government uses its power to restrict freedom of speech. A private organisation has no obligation to publish opinions on a page advertising their event.

So is an organisation claiming to be campaigning for freedom of speech and a more ethical society being hypocritical when it engages in censorship itself?

5uspect · 02-04-2011 10:12pm

If the mods, praise be upon them, locked or sent this thread to the recycle bin would that be censorship?

Tomk1 · 02-04-2011 10:12pm

Yes there is a backstory going way way way way way wayyyy back to the formation of the group, for some unknown reason and nearly 3 years he continues to carry his own personal vendetta. Pity.

robindch · 02-04-2011 10:24pm

5uspect wrote: »

If the mods, praise be upon them, locked or sent this thread to the recycle bin would that be censorship?

More a mercy...

Pushtrak · 02-04-2011 10:28pm

Dades wrote: »

Arcus Arrow, your complaint, without details or context is pointless.

Unless there's more information provided or something else useful I'd be inclined to close this thread.
There it is.

Sh! You'll have to delete the thread. The Conspiracy demands it!

Dades · 02-04-2011 10:45pm

Arcus Arrow wrote: »

The comment deleted asked whether attending would lead to anyone hearing anything new that they couldn't get on YouTube for free...

They deleted your snarky comment and you cry censorship?

Facebook is not a discussion forum - why would they leave it there?

MagicMarker · 02-04-2011 11:22pm

Arcus Arrow wrote: »

The comment deleted asked whether attending would lead to anyone hearing anything new that they couldn't get on YouTube for free. It also asked how many tickets have been sold. Naturally since they censored the comment it's hardly possible to provide a link to it. That's how censorship works.

So basically some gobshíte was trolling their facebook page and had a comment deleted.

What makes you think we give a shít?

Zombrex · 02-04-2011 11:44pm

Arcus Arrow wrote: »

As soon as a post popped up questioning how it was organised they deleted it.

Define "questioning how it was organised"

Do you mean something like this

Hey, great conference, I was wondering if you could give me the email for the organizer as I have a question about the time and venue

or do you mean something like this

This is a terrible conference, I mean O’Callaghan Alexander Hotel, that is a ****ing stupid place to have this conference, I live in Cork as do all my friends and typical stupid Atheist Ireland have to have it in Dublin, what a shower of bastards

There seems to be plenty of people asking questions about the event, such as asking how the ticket system works, and what day each speaker is present, so I'm guessing the "questions" you are referring to were more the second variety than the first variety....

Zillah · 02-04-2011 11:59pm

Arcus Arrow wrote: »

So is an organisation claiming to be campaigning for freedom of speech and a more ethical society being hypocritical when it engages in censorship itself?

As I've already said, they have no obligation to publish everything that you feel like saying on their conference advertisement. It is not censorship to delete a post on boards, tell someone to shut up about secularism as a funeral, or to pick and choose articles for one's magazine.

You can say what you like, they don't have to publish it for you.

strobe · 03-04-2011 12:14am

Arcus Arrow wrote: »

Whoops!

Whats your deal Arcus?

I'm not into the whole AA thing. But what is your boggle?

MrPudding · 03-04-2011 12:16am

strobe wrote: »

Whats your deal Arcus?

I'm not into the whole AA thing. But what is your boggle?

He paid his money but they did not send him his badge and secret decoder ring. He can't let it go.

MrP

pH · 03-04-2011 12:37am

Arcus Arrow wrote: »

Another little bit of hypocrisy from the folks organising the "World" Atheist Convention.
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=192538870782352&sfrm

As soon as a post popped up questioning how it was organised they deleted it. This is from the same crowd who claimed to be against the blasphemy law on the basis of freedom of speech.

Look, you know better than this. If say the RCC tries to stop anyone, anywhere criticising the Pope, using the laws of the State this is censorship. This is a million miles away from expecting the Vatican to host comments like "the Pope is a paedophile" on their own website, and crying "censorship" when they delete them.

If you (or anyone) has a problem or criticisms of this organisation, then you are entirely free to publish them on any number of your own websites (or even Facebook pages). If you end up in prison, then cry "censorship".

Arcus Arrow · 04-04-2011 11:55am

pH wrote: »

Look, you know better than this. If say the RCC tries to stop anyone, anywhere criticising the Pope, using the laws of the State this is censorship. This is a million miles away from expecting the Vatican to host comments like "the Pope is a paedophile" on their own website, and crying "censorship" when they delete them.

If you (or anyone) has a problem or criticisms of this organisation, then you are entirely free to publish them on any number of your own websites (or even Facebook pages). If you end up in prison, then cry "censorship".

I don't think it's quite the same thing. The RCC talks out of both sides of it's mouth and has done for centuries. For an organisation that sets out to criticise religion to then engages in something of the same tactics is hypocritical. Campaigning (or claiming to be) for freedom of speech and then deleting anything awkward or mildly difficult to deal is also a case of talking of both sides of the same mouth whether on Facebook or anywhere else.

Dades · 04-04-2011 12:02pm

Arcus Arrow wrote: »

Campaigning (or claiming to be) for freedom of speech and then deleting anything awkward or mildly difficult to deal is also a case of talking of both sides of the same mouth whether on Facebook or anywhere else.

You keep saying this, though it's clear nobody here agrees. There's a huge difference between public forums and Facebook announcement pages.

Besides, this whole debate is pointless with knowing the text of the post that was deleted.

King Mob · 04-04-2011 12:11pm

Arcus Arrow wrote: »

I don't think it's quite the same thing. The RCC talks out of both sides of it's mouth and has done for centuries. For an organisation that sets out to criticise religion to then engages in something of the same tactics is hypocritical. Campaigning (or claiming to be) for freedom of speech and then deleting anything awkward or mildly difficult to deal is also a case of talking of both sides of the same mouth whether on Facebook or anywhere else.

Have you even read any of the responses on this thread?

Frankly if AI know who you are they probably just pre-emptively deleted your post because you've your own personal agenda against them and were looking to stir trouble or for something to bitch about and use as an example of their evil.

Seriously, what is your beef with AI?

Arcus Arrow · 04-04-2011 12:13pm

strobe wrote: »

Whats your deal Arcus?

I'm not into the whole AA thing. But what is your boggle?

I think in organising those professed atheists that do are in some ways expressing the same impulse that leads to organised religionism. I think an Irish Catholic country produces Irish Catholic Atheists. AI, at least, is to a great extent a prime example. The often automatic reactions you'll see on threads like this are another example.

As soon as something is perceived to be part of "the atheist cause or on the atheist side" it's has to be defended automatically as being above criticism.

What's involved here is a principle. I'd expect disagreement, a few missiles and criticism naturally but when that's all you've got while there's an almost complete absence of any questioning of the principle involved then you have the seeds of religion alive and well.

Atheism should be as critical of itself as it is of religion. Irish atheism, to the extent there is such a thing, doesn't appear to be.

The Mad Hatter · 04-04-2011 12:17pm

Arcus Arrow wrote: »

I think in organising those professed atheists that do are in some ways expressing the same impulse that leads to organised religionism. I think an Irish Catholic country produces Irish Catholic Atheists. AI, at least, is to a great extent a prime example. The often automatic reactions you'll see on threads like this are another example.

As soon as something is perceived to be part of "the atheist cause or on the atheist side" it's has to be defended automatically as being above criticism.

I don't think that's true. Atheist Ireland - and indeed their leader Michael Nugent, when he posts on here - certainly haven't been free from criticism on this site.

Arcus Arrow · 04-04-2011 12:17pm

Dades wrote: »

You keep saying this, though it's clear nobody here agrees. There's a huge difference between public forums and Facebook announcement pages.

Besides, this whole debate is pointless with knowing the text of the post that was deleted.

Is there a difference between a FB page announcing Johnny or Jennys birthday party and one by an organisation calling for an open society free of censorship?

04-04-2011 12:18pm

Arcus Arrow wrote: »

Another little bit of hypocrisy from the folks organising the "World" Atheist Convention.
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=192538870782352&sfrm

As soon as a post popped up questioning how it was organised they deleted it. This is from the same crowd who claimed to be against the blasphemy law on the basis of freedom of speech.

Can you post your Facebook details here and open it up so anybody can write on it? I've got some stuff I want to post, and since you're so anti-censorship, I assume you'll be leaving it there

King Mob · 04-04-2011 12:20pm

Arcus Arrow wrote: »

Atheism should be as critical of itself as it is of religion. Irish atheism, to the extent there is such a thing, doesn't appear to be.

So I take it you're ignoring the thread on here where AI was criticised about their census campaign?
And also ignoring that they took some of the criticism to heart and altered the campaign?

How very religious of you.

Now what's the real reason you dislike AI?

Arcus Arrow · 04-04-2011 12:32pm

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

I don't think that's true. Atheist Ireland - and indeed their leader Michael Nugent, when he posts on here - certainly haven't been free from criticism on this site.

It's not true of everybody naturally but is that to say you disagree that there is a tendency generally for many professed atheists to see themselves on the side of all things atheist. There is also a limit and a context to criticism where it maintains a partisan stance.

Arcus Arrow · 04-04-2011 12:34pm

28064212 wrote: »

Can you post your Facebook details here and open it up so anybody can write on it? I've got some stuff I want to post, and since you're so anti-censorship, I assume you'll be leaving it there

You can say whatever you want whenever you want. I won't be complaining to the moderators and after that it's only what general limits they choose to apply themselves.

pH · 04-04-2011 12:43pm

Arcus Arrow wrote: »

I don't think it's quite the same thing. The RCC talks out of both sides of it's mouth and has done for centuries. For an organisation that sets out to criticise religion to then engages in something of the same tactics is hypocritical. Campaigning (or claiming to be) for freedom of speech and then deleting anything awkward or mildly difficult to deal is also a case of talking of both sides of the same mouth whether on Facebook or anywhere else.

No because as you see on many internet forums, trying to get folks to stay on topic is a major hassle. If their FB post is an announcement, your "missing post" can be viewed as an attempt to derail the whole thing into some sort of flame war.

As I said, if they attempt to stop you publishing anything anywhere, then fine, cry censorship and you'll get a lot of support here.

What you can't do (and cry censorship) is ride on the coattails of their audience and use them.

04-04-2011 12:45pm

Arcus Arrow wrote: »

You can say whatever you want whenever you want. I won't be complaining to the moderators and after that it's only what general limits they choose to apply themselves.

So you're happy with someone going on to your personal Facebook page and posting in great detail (with their own bias, agenda, selective interpretation and half-truths) exactly why you're a horrible person? And you'll leave that up for anyone to see?

Zombrex · 04-04-2011 1:13pm

Arcus Arrow wrote: »

You can say whatever you want whenever you want. I won't be complaining to the moderators and after that it's only what general limits they choose to apply themselves.

Cool, please PM me your Facebook log in details. I would like to use your Facebook profile to post my messages about how you suck. :pac:

World Atheist Convention hypocrisy.

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