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Increasing Rent

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Comments

  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭sasta le


    tvjunki wrote: »
    If they moved in 7years then they went through one 4 year cycle. Now into 3 years of another part 4 cycle. After this year they are into 6 years right to stay.

    Do not give a lease in writing. Go from one rolling month to another. If you do give a lease and you need to sell you will have to sell with a sitting tenant. House is now devalued as only landlords with cash would be able to buy. Banks will not give mortgages without vacant possession.

    If you give a lease put in on the second page a break clause that the landlord can give notice under the residential tenancies act. Very important to put in.
    Once you have prepared the notice and completed the calculation go to citizens information to check. They are brilliant and are impartial.

    Just bare in mind the government might bring down the line that you cannot evict your tenant on the sale of a house.

    No lease thats sounds very underhanded


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭sasta le


    Fol20 wrote: »
    Honestly OP if market rate is between 16-1700 per month. I would consider doing substantial work to the property to get it up to market rate. In the past I wouldn’t have increased rent for long term tenants if they were hassle free knowing that I could charge whatever I want after they leave. The fact the government are constantly changing rules, the last thing you want is to be snookered when they eventually do leave. After talking to some ea. This RPZ directly affects resale value as well so protect your own interests.

    Even if you increased to 1200. That’s an opportunity cost of an extra 6k per annum. That’s some serious cash that can’t be ignored. If you did work. With that difference. You could easily recoup it.

    I’d say there’s zero checking of rent increases


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    sasta le wrote: »
    No lease thats sounds very underhanded

    Nothing underhanded about a landlord not giving a lease.

    A lease really only benefits the tenant so why would a landlord agree to giving additional rights over and above those given by statute.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,325 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    Anthonylfc wrote:
    i mean if he doesnt like my increase can't i just serve him with notice to end tenancy and then re-let to him at diff price etc ??


    Only if you undertake substantial work that would require him to move out and you to increase the rate to market value.


  • Registered Users Posts: 36,023 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    This is really simple:

    Option A)

    - Register the tenancy
    - draw up a lease
    - get a valid notice of rent increase drawn up for the max amount as per the calculator
    - every year up the rent 4%

    This seems to be the least hassle and most mutually beneficial option. You get more money, everything is above board, you retain a tenant who looks after the place and will some day take it off you. An easy life, slightly more profitable now and each year going forward.

    Option B)

    - Register the tenancy
    - Decide you want to get rid of him and re let at a significantly higher rate
    - Plan and outlay money for substantial renovation
    - Submit notice (which will be significant in this case, 28 weeks or 196 days as they have been there 7 years)
    - Do the renovation work
    - Go to re let at a higher rate

    This is expensive, is hassle, brings variables into play. And for what? An extra 2 - 3k a year rent (that you only start to see after maybe six - eight months by the time you get things in order, serve notice, have notice period expire, get possession, do renovation, get new tenants) that you're going to close the gap on anyway with a big increase now and 4% every subsequent year.

    Your choice, but it's option A all the way for me. Good luck whatever you decide.

    Probably good to take a nose through the information contained here:

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/


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  • Registered Users Posts: 263 ✭✭stinkbomb


    tvjunki wrote: »
    Do not give a contract...if you do they have more rights and if you need to sell they are allowed to stay and you have a sitting tenant. Leave as is. You will be devaluing your property as when you go to sell only those with cash will be able to afford it as banks want vacant possession.

    If you do decide to give a contract make sure there is a breakout clause that the landlord can use the residential tenancies act notices to leave. Put in a page with the part 4 notices as on the rtb website.

    They are still in a part4 cycle with a year left.


    So much wrong with this daft post. They have all their legal rights whether you have a contract or not, if anything they will have more since you're doing everything wrong. They don't get to stay if you're selling, you can evict on those grounds. Clauses don't matter: legislation does.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    stinkbomb wrote: »
    So much wrong with this daft post. They have all their legal rights whether you have a contract or not, if anything they will have more since you're doing everything wrong. They don't get to stay if you're selling, you can evict on those grounds. Clauses don't matter: legislation does.

    If the OP gives the tenant a fixed term lease, that conveys additional rights to the tenant.

    So unless that lease contains a clause allowing the OP to evict in order to sell, then he can't evict when/if he wants to sell. This will limit the number of interested buyers, less buyers = lower value property.


  • Registered Users Posts: 263 ✭✭stinkbomb


    pp didn't say fixed term lease, they said contract.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    A lease is a contract.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,382 ✭✭✭1874


    Anthonylfc wrote: »
    from day one he said he wanted to eventually buy the house

    i mean if he doesnt like my increase can't i just serve him with notice to end tenancy and then re-let to him at diff price etc ??

    ( i'm not and wouldn't do that to the chap ) just seeing if that would be allowed or prohibited etc


    Really from day 1 you should have charged him the going rate, sounds like he is playing some kind of long game, where he goes along with you but was getting a good deal in return, sounds like it suited you for one reason or another, but really you dont have a good situation here as far as I can see, best thing is try keep the tenant onside as much as possible, you might be limited in the value you can get for your property if this tenant stays, and you want to or have to sell, worst of all, why should you be limited to one buyer, depending on the location, you might get a much better deal off someone else and be completely legit.
    if you ask them to leave, they may throw a strop and try screw you over based on what they know of your dealings. Sound slike you are being brow beaten into submission.
    Personally, I think even though they are a good tenant, you probably need to get rid of them, if you cant afford to refurbish substantially or plan on selling soon after and think you wont recover the investment

    Then I think see the advice of the previous posters and get advice yourself.
    Honestly, being nice is not worth the hassle, new regulations/laws have seen to that, best to remain completely impartial and neutral in dealings, so civil but matter of fact.

    Anthonylfc wrote: »
    yep , just want the value to match what i owe and i'll cut the noose around my neck , im not an invester hoping to make money from rent
    my circumstances changed when i lived in it so i decided to rent it out and pay for itself


    Youre still entitled to get market value from a buyer and you might be limited if that buyer is your tenant, or if they are still in situ.
    The only positive things about this are, if you get valuations, do it professionally, you dont know, but a property may fetch more than the asking, if the tenant gives you what you want then it could be worthwhile
    and
    You are still within an existing tenancy, get advice quick just so you know on what the timescale is on giving notice and what would happen if you allowed the tenant a new tenancy, ie what additional rights may they have.
    If the current market value is not what you need to cover costs, then the tenant likely wont pay that either, Id suggest registering with the rtb (even as its late) and pay any fees related to that than have the tenant have you over a barrel, although they are entitled to their rights under the law also, it sounds like they have had a good deal.
    I dont envy your situation, I know someone else that let for under market value, they must still be and could now be further stuck with problems related to not being able to achieve market value for their property.
    I see one property for sale in my are, significantly under value, has tenants, so they clearly cant move them, and the the current rent stated in the sale ad also appears low.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 263 ✭✭stinkbomb


    amcalester wrote: »
    A lease is a contract.

    well duh but not every contract is a lease, and the point is that no one said fixed term lease.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    stinkbomb wrote: »
    well duh but not every contract is a lease, and the point is that no one said fixed term lease.

    Pretty much every property rental contract is though, what other type of contract would we be talking about?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭Fol20


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    This is really simple:

    Option A)

    - Register the tenancy
    - draw up a lease
    - get a valid notice of rent increase drawn up for the max amount as per the calculator
    - every year up the rent 4%

    This seems to be the least hassle and most mutually beneficial option. You get more money, everything is above board, you retain a tenant who looks after the place and will some day take it off you. An easy life, slightly more profitable now and each year going forward.

    Option B)

    - Register the tenancy
    - Decide you want to get rid of him and re let at a significantly higher rate
    - Plan and outlay money for substantial renovation
    - Submit notice (which will be significant in this case, 28 weeks or 196 days as they have been there 7 years)
    - Do the renovation work
    - Go to re let at a higher rate

    This is expensive, is hassle, brings variables into play. And for what? An extra 2 - 3k a year rent (that you only start to see after maybe six - eight months by the time you get things in order, serve notice, have notice period expire, get possession, do renovation, get new tenants) that you're going to close the gap on anyway with a big increase now and 4% every subsequent year.

    Your choice, but it's option A all the way for me. Good luck whatever you decide.

    Probably good to take a nose through the information contained here:

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/

    Its 6k a year. and if you recouped the costs in say 2 years. you will have a better standard property. Earning more per year and the property is worth more money overall. If they are decent tenants, you can offer them the place back to them at the more expensive price.

    If the tenants are going to cause hassle, they will cause it now or a few years down the line, so with option A your just kicking the can down the line. In the mean time, you may as well try and make as much money as possible. You have already been good to the tenant if its been years since the rent has increased, if the tenant doesnt see that and does something vindictive or financially hurts you, it speaks realms of what the tenant is really like.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 282 ✭✭Anthonylfc


    sasta le wrote: »
    No lease thats sounds very underhanded

    why you talking pony ???

    what's underhanded about my tenant of 7 years getting his rent about 700 a month less than market value ?? yeah i sound like i'm out to screw him over

    i just want a bit more as i am entitled to it , won't be ramping it up and have already agreed a raise with the tenant , was getting 1050 now its 1350 and he is actually over the moon with that , as he knows anywhere else he's paying alot more

    job done


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    Anthonylfc wrote: »
    why you talking pony ???

    what's underhanded about my tenant of 7 years getting his rent about 700 a month less than market value ?? yeah i sound like i'm out to screw him over

    i just want a bit more as i am entitled to it , won't be ramping it up and have already agreed a raise with the tenant , was getting 1050 now its 1350 and he is actually over the moon with that , as he knows anywhere else he's paying alot more

    job done

    Now that is underhanded.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 282 ✭✭Anthonylfc


    Only if you undertake substantial work that would require him to move out and you to increase the rate to market value.

    work ???

    the house is only a 10 year old house , it's spotless and has all mod cons


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 282 ✭✭Anthonylfc


    amcalester wrote: »
    Now that is underhanded.

    don't see how

    i've been extremely good to him the past 7 years , house inspection once a year , leave him be , he pays rent

    there is a 3 bed opposite side of the road for €1650 so he has a 4 bed and €300 less than the 3 bed and another bedroom


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    Anthonylfc wrote: »
    don't see how

    i've been extremely good to him the past 7 years , house inspection once a year , leave him be , he pays rent

    there is a 3 bed opposite side of the road for €1650 so he has a 4 bed and €300 less than the 3 bed and another bedroom

    Have a read of this thread, it helpfully explains everything.

    Increasing Rent


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 13,937 Mod ✭✭✭✭pc7


    anthonylfc be very careful, you have broken the rules in an RPZ in terms of rent increase, while the tenant is your 'friend' now and agreeing to it there is nothing to stop them taking a case against you down the line for this. In the eyes of the RTB you have left yourself open to hassle.


  • Registered Users Posts: 36,023 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Well all the information was posted here. One more time:

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/

    I'd like to think that if LL and tenant have shook hands on a new deal and are both happy with it that would be that.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 282 ✭✭Anthonylfc


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Well all the information was posted here. One more time:

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/

    I'd like to think that if LL and tenant have shook hands on a new deal and are both happy with it that would be that.

    exactly

    he knows full well if he went elsewhere he would be out of pocket by alot more

    he actually sighed in relief as he thought i was gonna ask full market value etc

    he's completely cool and first payment in feb


  • Registered Users Posts: 293 ✭✭Subutai


    Anthonylfc wrote: »
    exactly

    he knows full well if he went elsewhere he would be out of pocket by alot more

    he actually sighed in relief as he thought i was gonna ask full market value etc

    he's completely cool and first payment in feb

    Or, and this is what any well advised tenant would do, he agrees the increase knowing that he can dispute it at his leisure later and have you pay the difference back.

    That way he avoids any potential of you deciding to do, as some have suggested, significant refurbishments in order to kick him out. If he has any sense he'll wait until he's into his next Part 4, raise a dispute looking for the difference back, and in doing so also insulate himself from any eviction threat via intention to sell or refurbish through the protections under s 14 of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004.

    All you're doing is holding some savings for him.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 282 ✭✭Anthonylfc


    Subutai wrote: »
    Or, and this is what any well advised tenant would do, he agrees the increase knowing that he can dispute it at his leisure later and have you pay the difference back.

    That way he avoids any potential of you deciding to do, as some have suggested, significant refurbishments in order to kick him out. If he has any sense he'll wait until he's into his next Part 4, raise a dispute looking for the difference back, and in doing so also insulate himself from any eviction threat via intention to sell or refurbish through the protections under s 14 of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004.

    All you're doing is holding some savings for him.

    not everybody is as negative as you

    cheer up


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭Fol20


    Anthonylfc wrote: »
    not everybody is as negative as you

    cheer up

    Well, if you want to be in the business for the long game and not get badly burned you need to think of every eventuality that can happen and everything he described is very possible. Its about mitigating risk, not creating it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 293 ✭✭Subutai


    Anthonylfc wrote: »
    not everybody is as negative as you

    cheer up

    It's not about being negative or positive, it's about running a business in a way that won't leave you open to owing someone a lot of money in a year's time and being unable to evict following that.

    You shouldn't assume that just because you're ignorant of the rules governing your business that your tenant is too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,731 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    pc7 wrote: »
    anthonylfc be very careful, you have broken the rules in an RPZ in terms of rent increase, while the tenant is your 'friend' now and agreeing to it there is nothing to stop them taking a case against you down the line for this. In the eyes of the RTB you have left yourself open to hassle.

    does a dispute about a rent increase have to be made within 28 days?

    Do you mean the new rent can be paid for months and then be disputed?

    What's the 28 day period mentioned in the RTB rent increase template about??:confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭tvjunki


    does a dispute about a rent increase have to be made within 28 days?

    Do you mean the new rent can be paid for months and then be disputed?

    What's the 28 day period mentioned in the RTB rent increase template about??:confused:

    At anytime a tenant can challenge the rent increase. When they have moved to another place they can contact rtb and say they did not understand their rights.

    Law implies Landlords know the law as they are in business and the tenant does not know their rights.


  • Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭tvjunki


    Fol20 wrote: »
    Well, if you want to be in the business for the long game and not get badly burned you need to think of every eventuality that can happen and everything he described is very possible. Its about mitigating risk, not creating it.

    Op You have to cover yourself as the tenant will get back the over payment in the future plus compensation when you decide to sell or your relationship with your tenant goes pearshaped. The tenant can go to rtb anytime. The law assumes you as a landlord know the law..you don't want to get badly stung in the future.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Mod Note

    Thread closed pending mod review.


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