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Here comes the Judge, my 69 GTO

24567

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    you do know that this is going to turn into an epic refurb don't you?

    NO!.... you take that back.....

    The engine is going to get a nice refresh, the transmission gets cleaned & serviced & then they go back in... simples..

    Ok, maybe the engine gets warmed over a little in its refresh...

    Of course if I do that they the trans should get a rebuild just to be sure to be sure..

    The suspension rubbers & bushings do need to be replaced & now would be the obvious time to do that I guess & maybe put some upgraded bits in..

    If the engine gets warmed over then maybe the stock brakes should be upgraded.... of course if I do that maybe some retro look 17" wheels with good tyres would be a good idea...

    Hmmmm... this folks is why I can't have nice things!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    Wibbs wrote: »
    D's threads tend to Quietsailor. :D I have to say of all the builds/refurbs I've seen down the years on forums on the interwebs D's do stand out. When I get the email notification I get all giddy. :D

    Thanks man... it's good to know that the extra time I take to document in pics & then post updates is appreciated


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭quietsailor


    Daved_XB wrote: »
    NO!.... you take that back.....

    The engine is going to get a nice refresh, the transmission gets cleaned & serviced & then they go back in... simples..

    Ok, maybe the engine gets warmed over a little in its refresh...

    Of course if I do that they the trans should get a rebuild just to be sure to be sure..

    The suspension rubbers & bushings do need to be replaced & now would be the obvious time to do that I guess & maybe put some upgraded bits in..

    If the engine gets warmed over then maybe the stock brakes should be upgraded.... of course if I do that maybe some retro look 17" wheels with good tyres would be a good idea...

    Hmmmm... this folks is why I can't have nice things!

    And because you restore things properly, not just hoof in 2X horsepower and then wonder 6 months later why it is jittery on the road, is why they become epic refurbs. I'm not complaining, I think this and your other threads are fantastic, it's nice to see people restoring cars properly.

    thread spam here; I follow a UK forum called RetroRides and there is a mad scientist/engineer/tool maker fella on there called JohnnyBravo. I think the people who enjoy DaveXB's thread would enjoy this fella (and you too Dave). He builds things to restore tools to fix his RX-2 1972 Mazda RX2 - complete with Japanese tinworm infestation
    It's a lonnnnngggg read, and he has a second thread about restoring and modding an Ape three wheeler but the things he builds are interesting - recently an ultrasonic parts washer for almost nothing


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    Just a quick update on the Goat, I’ve finally gotten the quotes in from my engine builder to rebuild the engine, so that process has been kicked off.

    I’ve ordered new upgraded suspension & a big brake kit to be added as well as I don’t believe in just doubling the BHP of one of these old cars & then touching nothing else.

    The bigger brakes means that the 15” wheels won’t work so I’ve bought a set of the original style Rally II wheels but in 17” now. I went with 8” wide up front & 9” wide for the rear… tires are on order & I should have them by Friday hopefully.

    Mounted the wheels & measured up to ensure that they wouldn’t rub with the tire sizes that I’m going with.

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    Hopefully the brakes & suspension parts will arrive in the next few weeks & then I can start pulling the car apart to upgrade.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    Dropped the wheels off on Saturday to get the tyres fitted to them, final step before putting the wheels on the car is to the fit the nice red centre caps

    IMG_5018_zpsyawufu1n.jpg

    These are held on by a long threaded bolt that goes into the wheel & thru a metal disk

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    I think that they look great on the car, they fill out the arches well & the design will allow a nice view thru to the fancy brakes I’ve ordered

    IMG_7823_zps07johlep.jpg

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    That’ll be it for a while now for the GTO.. I’ve commissioned the engine build now, I have a big brake kit on order & a fancy upgrade to the suspension on its way too. Until that stuff turns up, I’ve played muscle car tetris & put the GTO off to the side of the shed out of the way till all the bits turn up.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    I have two updates on the GTO now… one positive & one less so… let’s start with the less than positive one & then we can end on a positive note..

    So I had dropped off my engine months ago & every time I went to chat with the company I picked to build it they kept telling me that things where moving slowly & I’d have the official quote soon… then the quotes was finally done as an “not to exceed” quote & again I checked in every second week to see how things where progressing. Long story short it turns out that other than dismantling the engine they did nothing else, never ordered a single part, never did anything with the block other than have it cleaned.

    This has really annoyed me as you can probably apricate as I’m now months behind where I thought I was…. So I collected all the bits last weekend & took them home

    IMG_7923_zpsz6ft7qko.jpg

    You can see that nearly all of the bearings are badly worn so a rebuild was always going to be needed…

    IMG_7924_zpsltrygtgo.jpg

    IMG_7925_zpsnbabihum.jpg

    The cam is pretty buggered too & the wear whist not being lobe wiped is definitely more that you’d want on your camshaft

    IMG_7926_zpsdngsftmy.jpg

    The bits I don’t have yet are the block, the crank & the heads… they are both at the machine shop still as they where outsourced by the guys who would have built the engine. The shop was closed when I went to collect the above bits but I’ll visit them next week to see what these bits look like & to get them to hone the block & measure it all up for me for new bearings etc… then I’ll just order all the bits myself & worry about finding someone to do the build when the bits are here… or maybe I just bite the bullet & buy the right tools & just build the thing myself


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    Now onto more positive things… the new suspension has turned up for the GTO & it looks great.. can’t wait to get the old stuff off & get this new stuff on..

    The QA1 kit came with new tubular upper & lower front suspension arms

    IMG_7905_zpslukkdofq.jpg

    Closer look at the upper, it’s a great build quality with a lot more strength that the original whilst being lighter as it’s not made of pig iron

    IMG_7906_zpssmrx0dae.jpg

    Here is top & bottom view of the new lower arm

    IMG_7907_zpssmfqrdve.jpg

    IMG_7908_zpsx2vvhyei.jpg

    These will work with the stock shocks & springs too… but I’ve gone with the coilover option

    IMG_7909_zpsew2oh4e4.jpg

    Also have rear coilovers to replace the original shocks & springs too

    IMG_7910_zpsbrizxwp7.jpg

    New upper & lower control arms for the rear too

    IMG_7911_zpsotz6ztnm.jpg

    IMG_7912_zpsqbonyoie.jpg

    New Trailing arms too

    IMG_7913_zpswaghze4d.jpg

    New thicker front & rear sway bars too

    IMG_7914_zps61ruae76.jpg

    The new big brake kit still hasn’t turned up yet… but I’m told that it should be here in a week or two now


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 59,559 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gremlinertia


    So good to see an update here though i'd be raging over the engine too. Keep it up!.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    I’m back with another small update here, well two updates really… let’s start with the brakes… so these boxes turned up from Wilwood last week…

    IMG_7948_zpshvggn2eg.jpg

    These had the front & rear calipers, you can see the main difference with the front calipers is that they are large pots & they have the integrated dust boots… not having dust boots on the front calipers is a big no-no here for road cars

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    The front rotor is a multi part bit of kit & as with most high end stuff it’s beautifully made & looks almost too good to bolt onto a car

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    The rear disk is the standard drum replacement disk setup you see for muscle cars where it looks like a top hat & the handbrake (or e-brake as the US would call it) slides into the back of the disk & acts as a drum brake

    IMG_7953_zpsggy2d6qt.jpg

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    Now I also have an engine update.. so I was in the US the other week for work & I spent a bit of time talking to the tech’s at a company called Butler Performance, these are THE guys when it comes building performance Pontiac engines, anyone in the US who races Pontiac’s seem to be running a Butler engine. They where really great to deal with on the phone & really helpful with helping me spec out a build. What I’ve ended up doing is going with a 467ci stroker kit, so that’s just over 7.6lts & should give just north of 500HP whilst still retaining drive ability. I’ve decided that I will be keeping & using my original block so that I retain the matching numbers but everything else is brand new & supplied as a complete kit by butler. It’s shipped from the US already… it shipped yesterday & FedEx seem to suggest that I’ll have it delivered to me by Thursday next week. I’m hoping that the machine shop will be able to start working on the boring out & decking the block not long after I can get the new crank & rotating assembly to them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭quietsailor


    Oh man, that's great news on the engine --- see, epic refurb!!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 18 Markaa


    I just read through the whole build thread and your attention to detail is unbelievable. Great job so far. Looking forward to more updates!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    Ok, update time again.. so all of the boxes of shiny new engine bits turned up the week before last…

    IMG_7974_zpsl6n8kgto.jpg

    I’m so impressed with Butler Performance, dealing with them was so easy & before shipping my stuff I went thru 3 separate QA exchanges with them to ensure that I was getting everything I needed & that it would all fit & work together. Including one call where they wanted to know the type & quality of fuel I was going to be using so that they could make sure the compression ratio was right. I wish all companies where as good to deal with, they even sent me two oil filters & there fave brand of high zink breakin oil.

    IMG_7979_zpsngzzadap.jpg

    Every bolt & faster that would or could be needed is also in the kit,

    IMG_7993_zpsbk8z5hig.jpg

    As usual some of this stuff looks too good to hide away in an engine but here are some pics of shiny bits for your enjoyment.

    IMG_7988_zpsbcwmylop.jpg

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    Cam & cam spec… I’ll need to get the gearbox uprated & a new torque converter based off these specs

    IMG_7982_zpspcktlhgr.jpg

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    High torque compact starter

    IMG_7980_zpspqxtazyg.jpg

    Fancy ignition bits to replace the points

    IMG_7977_zpsbsiae3q8.jpg

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    Push rods & rockers

    IMG_7981_zpstjw6adb6.jpg

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    87cc Aluminum heads, they will be port matched & flowed before they go on the engine

    IMG_7991_zps8wuknsfo.jpg

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    The build kicked off today as the block is getting honed & bored to .035” over & then once the one piston goes in for measuring the deck height then we’ll be able to deck the surface & complete the build.

    My job now is to get into the shed & get the suspension & brakes upgraded before the engine is ready to go back in…


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    I got myself a set of new Dougs headers for the GTO for when the engine is done & ready to go back in…

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    I’ve decided that I won’t be trying to reuse any of the old exhaust system as it’s fairly restrictive & won’t flow well enough for the new build, plus it’s not the prettiest of things, I reckon it was made up of several sections over time.. so off it comes

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    With that out of the way I could get a good look at the diff & all the bits I’ll be replacing, the QA1 Level 2 kit I have gives me new coilovers to replace the shocks & springs, new upper & lower control arms & a set of control arm braces & a new rear sway bar.

    IMG_8004_zpsznwvlwjh.jpg

    Now if you read thru this thread then you know that I had already replaced the lower control arms when I fitted a Hotchkiss rear sway bar when I first got the car, I’ve opted to replace these items simply as the QA1 kit is a complete kit engineered to work together & whilst I’m sure it would work fine with my existing bits it just makes sense.. I might try & sell the bits later or hang them on the wall just in case.

    First step was to remove the sway bar

    IMG_8005_zpsah7iffuq.jpg

    Then I could get my screw jacks in under the diff too take the load off the suspension so that I can remove all of the bolts

    IMG_8006_zpshuutwk0d.jpg

    Removing the again fairly new air shocks was nice & simple & then I released the screw jack to drop the diff & make the spring nice & easy to pry out

    IMG_8007_zpsq8pbwhxi.jpg

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    I then started to make a little pile of the removed bits, I suspect that I’ll just end up boxing this all up when I’m done & storing it for no real reason other than general hoarding

    IMG_8012_zpsrj7urslf.jpg

    I then spent a while looking at how I was going to tackle this, I was thinking that I would replace 1 arm at a time..

    IMG_8013_zpsbwoslptb.jpg

    Starting with the upper arms

    IMG_8014_zpswsba6mdn.jpg

    You can see the difference between the original upper arm & the new QA1 piece

    IMG_8015_zpsc02jgckk.jpg

    IMG_8016_zpskesyctib.jpg

    Once this was out I started to see just how hard it was going to be for me to remove the old pressed in bushings that are in the top of the diff housing

    IMG_8017_zpsadu2qoq4.jpg

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    The more I had a little play with this by smacking it or pressing it with a clamp I started to realize that these would be a massive pain in my arse to try & remove & replace whilst the diff was in the car… I did some looking on some forums & seems that no one trys to replace these with the diff in the car.. so change of plan… the diff is coming out.

    IMG_8020_zpsqtc5hwpz.jpg

    With the diff now resting on the jack plate I removed the other upper arm & both of the lower arms from the diff to disconnect it from the car fully…

    IMG_8026_zpsctg9vain.jpg

    With the diff free, I then disconnected the brake lines & the E brake cables to completely free the diff, lowered the hoist to match the height of the work bench so I could simply slide the diff out from under the car with little to no physical effort

    IMG_8027_zpsv5j3ojog.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    With the diff out now I can easily get to the upper arm bushings to remove them, I will also take the opportunity to clean up the diff housing & paint it before it goes back in… will probably do the rear drum to disk conversion whilst it’s on the bench too

    IMG_8028_zpsxyn9xgsn.jpg

    I’ll also take the opportunity to clean the underside of the car & coat it in a tuff undercoat

    IMG_8031_zpsgnmjdjlo.jpg

    Here you can see just how rusted into place the old bushings are & the shiny new ones that will take their place soon I hope

    IMG_8029_zpsqn7ilcyu.jpg

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    As I sadly don’t have the physical upper body strength to hold the diff up with one arm & use my other arm to operate my press I had to find a different way to get them out… I used a drill to get the rubber centers out, you do this by slowly running a drill bit around the outer edge of the rubber & as the drill bit is drawn inside between the metal case of the bushing & the rubber itself it just draws the rubber out… very efficient really

    IMG_7129_zpsug7xnnmw.jpg

    Of course it buggers the rubber & the inside of the metal bushing case

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    Once the rubber section is out then I just used a cold chisel & a hammer to remove the rest

    IMG_8035_zpsqadxosoq.jpg

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    Now once I have cleaned up & painted the diff I will then look at trying to press back in the new shiny bushings

    IMG_8036_zpslr5bc7nm.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    Bit of an update with regards to the engine build.. the crank was fitted & measured up

    IMG_7634_zpssruqt1m2.jpg

    We felt the need to clearance the block somewhat to make room for the crank counter weights

    IMG_7636_zpsgotavz0l.jpg]

    The rotating assembly was put together so we could measure how much the block needed to be decked to “zero” piston deck height

    IMG_7635_zpsfk35kznw.jpg

    The block is going back to the shop to be decked & then chemically washed & cleaned again ready to build up, we’ll get the machine shop to fit the cam bearings also whilst they have it.

    IMG_7633_zpstuv2akgv.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,428 ✭✭✭quietsailor


    Is the block reasonably flat & your just skimming it to get the pistons level with the top of the block?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    Is the block reasonably flat & your just skimming it to get the pistons level with the top of the block?

    The Block is fine, it's just the length of the new new rods & pistons need the block to be decked to make them fit


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    With the diff out I attached it degreaser & wire wheels to remove years of grim & loose surface paint etc,

    IMG_8046_zpsru55mjj6.jpg

    With that done I pulled the axles out with the drum brake backing plates, this gave me more room to swing a wirewheel & also reduced the weight of the diff to make it a bit easier for me to move it about & flip it over

    IMG_8047_zps7lnjf46y.jpg

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    The bearings & the axles seem fine, not that I was expecting anything else

    IMG_8050_zpskt0bak8j.jpg

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    With that done I was able to give the diff a good clean up & then several coats of a rust inhibiting underbody spray

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    I installed the new upper control arm bushing using the tried & tested smack them with a lump of wood method & that worked fine

    IMG_8057_zpsfubowuxl.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    The next thing was to install the new lower bracket for the coilover suspension, made sense to do that on the bench, needed to ensure that the bracket was mounted at 90 deg to the axle housing tube, I’m sure there is probably a clever tool to use for this, I don’t own one so improvised, this bracket uses the existing hole for the original lower shock mount & then requires you to drill a second hole to secure it properly.

    IMG_8058_zpsanjcudwh.jpg

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    Likewise the new upper bracket mounts to the existing upper shock mounting holes & require a 3rd hole to be drilled to secure it in place

    IMG_8060_zpsomdds2cm.jpg

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    I installed the new replacement upper control arm

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    The new replacement lower control arm

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    Also the new triangulation brace that ties the upper & lower control arm mounting points to each other

    IMG_8067_zpst6zvaskt.jpg

    With all of these installed & hanging it was time to slide the diff under again

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    The plan was pretty simple here, the reverse of how I got the diff out, chock the car frame in the air to free up my hoist jacking plate, slide the diff onto the jacking plate & then move it into place so I could attach the two lower control arms to the diff housing

    IMG_8070_zpso2jehdgs.jpg

    With them connected but not tightened up fully I jacked the diff up & tilted it back to its natural angle to allow me to connect the two upper arms too, then I measured the diff location & once it was centered I tightened everything up, but not to full torque specs yet as they say not to do that until the car is on its wheels under it’s own weight

    IMG_8072_zpsrcxntc98.jpg

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    Then it was time to admire a lot of the shiny new bits that where to go on next

    IMG_8073_zpsy7lu0xk4.jpg

    Assembled the coilovers, not sure exactly how much anti-seize you’re supposed to put on the threads but I put what I think was a fair bit

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    Took a stab in the dark guess at ride height for now

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    Then it was time to mount the new handbrake (or E-brake given this is a US car) backing plate

    IMG_8080_zpsiay89mrr.jpg

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    Then reinstall the axles into the diff housing

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    Then the new disk brake rotor & hat slide over the e-brake backing plate

    IMG_8084_zps7w4206q7.jpg

    Install the new 4 piston caliper

    IMG_8085_zpsrvdourty.jpg

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    Then put the wheels back on & drop the car to the ground & torque up all the new suspension bits to the instructed values.. not a bad ride height for my first guestimate

    IMG_8088_zpsf42edo9k.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    Last bit to be installed is the new rear swaybar which they should only be installed with the car on the ground, unlike the bar I removed that just bolted to the lower control arms this new bar attaches via these funky blocks that mean that I have some adjustment as to where the bar sits

    IMG_8089_zpsqnbhymcz.jpg

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    As I just about to bolt up the new bar I remembered that I’m replacing the fuel tank & that the bar would most likely be in the way, so I’ve now not installed the sway bar yet

    IMG_8091_zps2ucw44qi.jpg

    I used the jacking plate to take the weight of the tank so that I could undo the straps & then simply lower the tank (I think it’s got 20-30ltrs in it) down & then slide it onto the same table I used for the diff, fast becoming an indispensable member of the Skunk Works garage this table

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    I’m very happy with the boot floor & chassis rails back here, you can tell this car lived the vast majority of her 51 years in dry climates

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    Very happy with how this all looks from behind now

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    Now it’s time to tackle the front end, first step the strip down

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    All of the this needs to be removed

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    I’ll be reusing the tie-rod ends & I only replaced them a short while ago (well in driven miles terms) so care was taken to split them in such a way as to not damage them

    IMG_8101_zps982xbhc7.jpg

    The upper ball joints are split now & will never be reused so a lump hammer & a tuning fork did their work here

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    I’ve removed the lower arm & spindles in one piece, I’ll split the spindle from the lower arm on the bench, I’ll need to reuse the spindles in the new set up

    IMG_8106_zpshtrmglif.jpg

    With the front now stripped I have another collection of old front suspensions bits I’ll probably never need, I’ll box them up like I did with the stuff from the XB & the Challenger & keep them.. you know, just in case

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    I’ll give the front end a little clean up but won’t go mad & then I can start installing all the shiny bits

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    Before starting with any of the shiny clean new bits, I figured I’d break down the lower arms & spindles as I’d need to reuse the spindles & the steering rod arms

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    Used a ball joint breaker on the spindles, not that I think for a second that the old hitting it with a hammer method or using a tuning fork would damage the spindle in any way

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    With the bits apart I was able to wire brush all the years of crap & crud off of them

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    Now I’m ready for operation assemble the new QA1 front end..


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    With the F1 cancelled this morning I found myself at home with a day of leave from work & nothing to do…. So I cleaned up the front chassis rails & the crossmember

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    Once cleaned up, I painted it ready to install the new parts

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    I’ll be replacing the radiator & the A/C Condenser too so out came the rad

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    I had to remove the front grills to get to the bolts that hold the condenser in but I can’t seem to get it out thru the engine bay side as the brackets are in the way… bit of Dr Google research needed here I think as I really don’t want to have to remove the nose as I’ve been told that that is a massive pain in the rectum

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    Ok, time to put some shiny new bits on, the coilovers are designed to work with the original lower control arm if you wish & the new tubular lower control arm is designed that it could be used with the stock spring & shock set up.. so I need to remove the pin from the bottom of the coilover as it’s only for use with the original lower arm configuration

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    Then this plate gets installed into the new lower arm to fill over the hole that the stock shock would install into

    IMG_8122_zpsbb0peizp.jpg

    I love the ease of installing new shiny clean parts on a clean prepped car with all new nuts & bolts… it’s such an easy task… so lower & upper arms get installed

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    Then you install the coil spring on the shock & you can hang it from its top mounting point

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    Then I gently jacked the bottom arm up so that I can install the lower mount of the coilover into its bracket

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,211 ✭✭✭Daved_XB


    That’s the install done now…

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    I have tomorrow free now as I had planned to be at the F1, so now I’ll install the new front brakes & reconnect the steering arms instead, then I’ll have another go at removing the A/C condenser before I install the sway bar as right now I can stand up in the engine bay in front of the crossmember but the sway bar would be in my way


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