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Trump/Russia Collusion Insanity

  • 16-11-2019 9:45pm
    #1
    wildeside
    Registered Users Posts: 171 ✭✭


    This whole Trump/Russia collusion story is and always has been not just a distraction but also a massive lie. A lie on the scale of "Iraq has weapons of mass destruction" kind of lie.

    It's ridiculous the amount of time and energy that has gone into it already and it's still going on. It's tin foil hat conspiracy theory stuff that only Alex Jones would be proud of.

    Take this 'reputable' journalist from a 'reputable' news outlet The Guardian newspaper having his theory of collusion being torn to shreds by another (independent) journalist. He basically hangs up the call when he realises the interviewer is on to his BS and calls him out on it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJDo0OSAg9s

    Basically what it comes down to is Hillary lost the election and she has to blame someone (not herself or the democratic party, no, no, no) so the Russians did it! It's the Red Scare all over again.

    Jesus wept, people are so easily manipulated by main-stream media propaganda. That's not a criticism of people per-se, I mean what chance do people have if all they watch/read/listen to is the MSM? The same MSM that convinced how many people Saddam's missiles were only 45 mins away?

    Disclaimer: I hate Trump. He's a giant A-hole. But I hate lies more than Trump.
    Tagged:


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Comments

  • #2
    paleoperson
    Registered Users Posts: 3,522 ✭✭✭paleoperson


    It's the dems' big excuse for losing to Trump. "Russian collusion!", "the Russians hacked the election!", "Putin's evil plans!"... who could honestly believe any of that **** anymore? The continuous carrot on a stick. The threats about Russia. The biggest threat to world stability by far is Clinton and anyone with anything to do with that administration including democrats in general.

    Telling the public they have to keep the evidence under wraps until the investigation is over - three years in and nothing substantial at all. Jumping from one investigation to another with nothing of merit coming from any of them. Carrot on a stick. By the Trump impeachment enquiry I have to ask - could anyone still believe in the democrats? And more importantly does anyone even care any more?! Even if they find something, if they had to go that far out of their way then it's more like testament that Trump has been clean as a whistle or they should have found it sooner. Presidents conduct a lot of business, they might have misjudgements once in a blue moon, I'm sure plenty of presidents could be found to have closets in their closet if you searched hard enough for them.

    For many years it was seeming like the GOP was becoming a bit of a joke. But after Trump it's now the dems that have overtaken them in stupidity and are a joke.


  • #3
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,542 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    You have to wonder about accounts that are dormant for a decade and then resurface to spread the gospel of conspiracy theorists.


  • #4
    Salary Negotiator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭Salary Negotiator


    osarusan wrote: »
    You have to wonder about accounts that are dormant for a decade and then resurface to spread the gospel of conspiracy theorists.

    Maybe the OP immigrated back to Ireland. From Russia maybe.


  • #5
    wildeside
    Registered Users Posts: 171 ✭✭wildeside


    osarusan wrote: »
    You have to wonder about accounts that are dormant for a decade and then resurface to spread the gospel of conspiracy theorists.

    What are you wondering exactly? That I might be a Russian troll/bot? Or something else?


  • #6
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,542 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    wildeside wrote: »
    What are you wondering exactly? That I might be a Russian troll/bot? Or something else?


    That you might be a conspiracy theorist loon.


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  • #7
    paleoperson
    Registered Users Posts: 3,522 ✭✭✭paleoperson


    osarusan wrote: »
    That you might be a conspiracy theorist loon.

    It's a conspiracy theory to say the "Russian collusion" claim is hocus pocus? Are you having a laugh?

    The Russia-collusion theory is a conspiracy theory by definition. It's about the incumbent government committing a clear crime, that's a conspiracy theory. By all means test it, see if it's true, a tiny fraction of conspiracy theories are quite believeable or have turned out to be true. But don't act like it's not a conspiracy theory.

    You realize that the word "conspiracy theory" means something? It's not just some idea you don't like?


  • #8
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,542 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    paleoperson wrote: »
    It's a conspiracy theory to say the "Russian collusion" claim is hocus pocus? Are you having a laugh?

    The Russia-collusion theory is a conspiracy theory by definition. It's about the incumbent government committing a clear crime, that's a conspiracy theory. By all means test it, see if it's true, a tiny fraction of conspiracy theories are quite believeable or have turned out to be true. But don't act like it's not a conspiracy theory.

    You realize that the word "conspiracy theory" means something? It's not just some idea you don't like?
    Have a look at the history of the character behind the youtube channel linked in the OP and see what you think.


  • #9
    paleoperson
    Registered Users Posts: 3,522 ✭✭✭paleoperson


    osarusan wrote: »
    Have a look at the history of the character behind the youtube channel linked in the OP and see what you think.

    I have no interest in watching political youtubers, except very occasionally Dave Cullen or Mark Dice.


  • #10
    wildeside
    Registered Users Posts: 171 ✭✭wildeside


    osarusan wrote: »
    Have a look at the history of the character behind the youtube channel linked in the OP and see what you think.

    Ah what history would that be exactly? This is all quite straight forward. Trump is charged with colluding with the Russian government to fix the result of the 2016 presidential election in his favour.

    Evidence? None. Do you have information the rest of us aren't privy to? Please share it and put this matter to bed once and for all.


  • #11
    sameoldname
    Registered Users Posts: 897 ✭✭✭sameoldname


    wildeside wrote: »
    Ah what history would that be exactly? This is all quite straight forward. Trump is charged with colluding with the Russian government to fix the result of the 2016 presidential election in his favour.

    Evidence? None. Do you have information the rest of us aren't privy to? Please share it and put this matter to bed once and for all.

    Jesus.. I know this is pointless and all but here goes...

    Trump hasn't been charged with anything, let alone "fixing" an election. You would think you would know that seeing as you started a thread on it.

    However, various members of Trumps campaign have been charged with, and found guilty of various crimes in the lead up to and also after the election.
    Notably, Roger Stone was just recently found guilty of lying to congress about his relationship with Wikileaks. Wikileaks just happened to release thousands of emails hacked from the Democratic Party's servers just before the election. And where were those responsible for the hack from? You guessed it... Russia.


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  • #12
    wildeside
    Registered Users Posts: 171 ✭✭wildeside


    sameoldname wrote: »
    Jesus.. I know this is pointless and all but here goes...

    Trump hasn't been charged with anything, let alone "fixing" an election. You would think you would know that seeing as you started a thread on it.

    However, various members of Trumps campaign have been charged with, and found guilty of various crimes in the lead up to and also after the election.
    Notably, Roger Stone was just recently found guilty of lying to congress about his relationship with Wikileaks. Wikileaks just happened to release thousands of emails hacked from the Democratic Party's servers just before the election. And where were those responsible for the hack from? You guessed it... Russia.

    The only thing you've pointed out which is fact is that some people close to Trump are corrupt. That is true. And Trump himself is corrupt. As are the Republican Party, as are the Democratic Party and as are the media.

    None of which has anything to do with the initial charge of Trump/Russia collusion which started this whole sorry witch hunt distraction saga.

    Even the highly ideologically charge Young Turks will allow a journalist on to debunk this narrative

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlgrOhcajDY

    I have no interest in picking sides or winning arguments. I'm only interested finding out the truth.


  • #13
    SJW Lover
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 322 ✭✭SJW Lover


    sameoldname wrote: »
    Jesus.. I know this is pointless and all but here goes...

    Trump hasn't been charged with anything, let alone "fixing" an election. You would think you would know that seeing as you started a thread on it.

    However, various members of Trumps campaign have been charged with, and found guilty of various crimes in the lead up to and also after the election.
    Notably, Roger Stone was just recently found guilty of lying to congress about his relationship with Wikileaks. Wikileaks just happened to release thousands of emails hacked from the Democratic Party's servers just before the election. And where were those responsible for the hack from? You guessed it... Russia.


    Roger Stone didnt have a relationship with Wikileaks. The information he passed to Trump about Wikileaks had been circulated in the media a few days before. It was (relatively) common knowledge.


  • #14
    sameoldname
    Registered Users Posts: 897 ✭✭✭sameoldname


    As I said, pointless...
    wildeside wrote: »
    None of which has anything to do with the initial charge of Trump/Russia collusion which started this whole sorry witch hunt distraction saga.

    There was no such charge, I've already pointed that out to you. The investigation was looking into foreign interference in the presidential election 2016. Trump was never charged with anything, do I have to say it again?

    But hey, I get it. It's important to stay on message.


  • #15
    sameoldname
    Registered Users Posts: 897 ✭✭✭sameoldname


    SJW Lover wrote: »
    Roger Stone didnt have a relationship with Wikileaks. The information he passed to Trump about Wikileaks had been circulated in the media a few days before. It was (relatively) common knowledge.

    Really? Are you sure?


  • #16
    wildeside
    Registered Users Posts: 171 ✭✭wildeside


    sameoldname wrote: »
    As I said, pointless...



    There was no such charge, I've already pointed that out to you. The investigation was looking into foreign interference in the presidential election 2016. Trump was never charged with anything, do I have to say it again?

    But hey, I get it. It's important to stay on message.

    Jesus Christ. You're pointing out he wasn't charged, as in was not found guilty, of a crime he was accused of

    https://theintercept.com/2019/03/25/watch-a-contentious-constructive-debate-on-the-media-and-political-humiliation-from-the-mueller-report/

    What part of all of this did you miss exactly?


  • #17
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭nthclare


    This reminds me of the time that the Americans couldn't come up with a pen that worked in space, so NASA tried all kinds of ways to invent a pen that could write in zero gravity..

    A Russian cosmonaut suggested that they use a pencil its more practical and theoretical..

    What I'm saying is the Russians had **** all to do with the American election, if you believe that you're thick.

    The people voted with their own conscious, I know people in America who were going to vote Hillary and at the last second they said **** this I'm not voting for her.

    I suppose the Russians told them to do it with some kind of mind frequency....

    lol


  • #18
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,547 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    SJW Lover wrote: »
    Roger Stone didnt have a relationship with Wikileaks. The information he passed to Trump about Wikileaks had been circulated in the media a few days before. It was (relatively) common knowledge.

    I’m not sure that’s what his conviction papers say


  • #19
    sameoldname
    Registered Users Posts: 897 ✭✭✭sameoldname


    wildeside wrote: »
    Jesus Christ. You're pointing out he wasn't charged, as in was not found guilty, of a crime he was accused of

    https://theintercept.com/2019/03/25/watch-a-contentious-constructive-debate-on-the-media-and-political-humiliation-from-the-mueller-report/

    What part of all of this did you miss exactly?

    What government department had charged him with anything? Do you understand what the word charged means in this context, because you've used it twice now. And just so you know, when somebody is charged with a crime, it means the government is accusing them of a crime. When they are found not guilty, the word is acquitted. But he was never charged, so he was never acquitted. Get it now?


  • #20
    wildeside
    Registered Users Posts: 171 ✭✭wildeside


    sameoldname wrote: »
    What government department had charged him with anything? Do you understand what the word charged means in this context, because you've used it twice now. And just so you know, when somebody is charged with a crime, it means the government is accusing them of a crime. When they are found not guilty, the word is acquitted. But he was never charged, so he was never acquitted. Get it now?

    You're playing a semantic game to avoid the issue. Trump was accused of wrong-doing which, had it turned out to be true, would have resulted in him being charged with a crime.

    And the media establishment went on a massive conspiracy theory, tin-foil hat wearing witch hunt for several years over this

    https://theintercept.com/2019/03/25/watch-a-contentious-constructive-debate-on-the-media-and-political-humiliation-from-the-mueller-report/

    Are you really ok with this just because it was all directed at Trump?


  • #21
    Overheal
    Registered Users Posts: 81,547 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    wildeside wrote: »
    You're playing a semantic game to avoid the issue. Trump was accused of wrong-doing which, had it turned out to be true, would have resulted in him being charged with a crime.

    And the media establishment went on a massive conspiracy theory, tin-foil hat wearing witch hunt for several years over this

    https://theintercept.com/2019/03/25/watch-a-contentious-constructive-debate-on-the-media-and-political-humiliation-from-the-mueller-report/

    Are you really ok with this just because it was all directed at Trump?

    What does “OLC” mean to you?


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  • #22
    Jesus effing Christ
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34 ✭Jesus effing Christ


    wildeside wrote: »

    It's ridiculous the amount of time and energy that has gone into it already and it's still going on.

    I'd agree on the amount of spin and focus. Trump is the birther guy so most what's said about him by the mainstream and in comment sections,tweets etc doesn't need to be said.
    He won the election I think it's important he is voted out.
    Did they ever actually put the focus on why trump ! No cos that would bring conversation back around to something they don't wanna talk about...
    Isn't it funny with all the things you could throw at trump they keep bounding the one drum that suggests that their expert analysis/correct outlook is not wrong.


  • #23
    sameoldname
    Registered Users Posts: 897 ✭✭✭sameoldname


    wildeside wrote: »
    You're playing a semantic game to avoid the issue. Trump was accused of wrong-doing which, had it turned out to be true, would have resulted in him being charged with a crime.

    And the media establishment went on a massive conspiracy theory, tin-foil hat wearing witch hunt for several years over this

    https://theintercept.com/2019/03/25/watch-a-contentious-constructive-debate-on-the-media-and-political-humiliation-from-the-mueller-report/

    Are you really ok with this just because it was all directed at Trump?

    I'm ok with it because 9 people and counting ended up in jail due to that "witch hunt".

    Surely, as a person seeking the truth you must be delighted that all of that came to light?


  • #24
    sameoldname
    Registered Users Posts: 897 ✭✭✭sameoldname


    wildeside wrote: »
    You're playing a semantic game...

    And just on this point, the words you've been using have very specific meanings when it comes to legal matters. You complain about media and political spin but then you use words that have real meanings and bandy them around in whatever way you feel like to make whatever point you feel like pushing. You're as guilty of spin as any journalist or politician.


  • #25
    wildeside
    Registered Users Posts: 171 ✭✭wildeside


    sameoldname wrote: »
    I'm ok with it because 9 people and counting ended up in jail due to that "witch hunt".

    Surely, as a person seeking the truth you must be delighted that all of that came to light?

    Yes I absolutely am delighted that corrupt individuals were exposed for their crimes. And I hope Trump goes to jail too if he can be found guilty of crimes. I hate the man.

    But the ends do not justify the means. The crime the media committed in all this will go unpunished. Lies corrupt a society, little ones in small ways and big ones in ways that can end up with hundreds of thousands of people dead (Iraq WMD anyone?)

    The truth matters.


  • #26
    wildeside
    Registered Users Posts: 171 ✭✭wildeside


    sameoldname wrote: »
    And just on this point, the words you've been using have very specific meanings when it comes to legal matters. You complain about media and political spin but then you use words that have real meanings and bandy them around in whatever way you feel like to make whatever point you feel like pushing. You're as guilty of spin as any journalist or politician.

    I'm not trying to "spin" anything. I'm not a lawyer. Accusations were made against Trump that turned out not to be true. Which were knowingly not true as it turns out. It was a circus and a deliberate one. That's all I'm trying to point out as well as the seriousness of how the media establishment behaved in all this. It was Iraq WMD all over again except luckily this time thousands of people didn't die as a result.


  • #27
    sameoldname
    Registered Users Posts: 897 ✭✭✭sameoldname


    wildeside wrote: »
    I'm not trying to "spin" anything. I'm not a lawyer. Accusations were made against Trump that turned out not to be true. Which were knowingly not true as it turns out. It was a circus and a deliberate one. That's all I'm trying to point out as well as the seriousness of how the media establishment behaved in all this. It was Iraq WMD all over again except luckily this time thousands of people didn't die as a result.

    Ok, so you've gone from:

    1) Don't trust the media, they lie. I don't like Trump but they lied about Trump.
    2) Trump was charged over Russian collusion.
    3) Trump was charged over Russian collusion and was found not guilty.
    4) Ok, Trump wasn't actually charged over Russian collusion or found not guilty.
    5) Don't trust the media, they lie. I don't like Trump but they lied about Trump.

    Do you see where I might have got the impression of spin?


  • #28
    paleoperson
    Registered Users Posts: 3,522 ✭✭✭paleoperson


    sameoldname wrote: »
    Ok, so you've gone from:

    1) Don't trust the media, they lie. I don't like Trump but they lied about Trump.
    2) Trump was charged over Russian collusion.
    3) Trump was charged over Russian collusion and was found not guilty.
    4) Ok, Trump wasn't actually charged over Russian collusion or found not guilty.
    5) Don't trust the media, they lie. I don't like Trump but they lied about Trump.

    Do you see where I might have got the impression of spin?

    c518ac7bbec3b5061660cec0c38d785be26c0ff6de8b4d82835718bd9b199610.jpg

    Sorry what the hell are you talking about? None of that happened at all. The only thing that happened was he used the word "charged" inaccurately in terms of a legal sense at first, then when you pointed it out he corrected his error.

    If he wished he could easily argue with you that he was using the word "charged" in a different context (which he effectively was) if he was also a pedant but he did not bother. He took it back straightaway, so I can't understand what your continuing issue with it is. Are you really so happy you observed a small mistake?

    An intelligent person who had actual points to make wouldn't bother with such pedantry or might just make a small note of it. You went from:

    1. Pointing out he used the word charged wrong.
    2. Pointing out words matter.
    3. Pointing out his mistake was really bad.
    4. Putting up a bunch of steps supposedly made in error.

    Jesus the mileage you're trying to get out of one slight error of using the word "charge" is beyond parody. Cop onto yourself.


  • #29
    KWAG2019
    Closed Accounts Posts: 834 ✭✭✭KWAG2019


    osarusan wrote: »
    You have to wonder about accounts that are dormant for a decade and then resurface to spread the gospel of conspiracy theorists.

    Putin gave this sleeper agent a boot up the arse in the troll factory.


  • #30
    sameoldname
    Registered Users Posts: 897 ✭✭✭sameoldname


    paleoperson wrote: »
    Jesus the mileage you're trying to get out of one slight error of using the word "charge" is beyond parody. Cop onto yourself.

    No, I'm pointing out that the guy comes on here who claims to "seek the truth" but asks no questions. Then proceeds to soapbox on about the media spinning lies while he himself uses terms that imply that something happened which never actually happened. He also tries to conflate media and political spin in the case of Trump with government propaganda used to justify the war in Iraq.

    I find it pitiful that people would believe any of that to be honest discourse.


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  • #31
    rossie1977
    Registered Users Posts: 11,341 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    And yet the Republican led Senate committee came to the conclusion the Russians interfered in 2016 to benefit Trump https://techcrunch.com/2019/10/08/senate-report-says-russian-election-interference-invariably-supported-trump-recommends-national-psa/

    It wasn't Hillary Clinton or even a Democrat that started the original investigation, it was a Republican Rod Rosenstein, Trump's own hand-picked DA. The lead investigator was a lifelong Republican who publicly admitted he didn't even talk to Trump let alone question him and still admitted Trump was guilty and he hadn't authority to charge him.


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