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Tenant unable to confirm moving out date

  • 12-09-2019 11:57am
    #1
    notahappycamper
    Registered Users Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭


    Hi,

    I have tenants who have told me they are buying their own property and will be moving out.

    They haven’t signed contracts yet and the property is nearly finished.

    Given the length of time they have been renting they are required to give me 84 days notice.

    I am obviously trying to arrange viewings and am unable to give any prospective tenants a date they can move in.

    I don’t want a situation to arise where they say the builder wants to close in 3 weeks time and no one is lined up to take over the property or they leave on very short notice.

    What is the best way to deal with this situation?


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Comments

  • #2
    Lux23
    Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    I suppose you could enforce the terms, and ask that they give you 84 days notice. I think that's the fairest thing for you.


  • #3
    Star Lord
    Registered Users Posts: 30,123 ✭✭✭✭Star Lord


    We've been the tenants in a similar situation, and just gave the landlord a data by which we thought we'd be able to have been ready to go. Things did drag out a little, meaning we were starting to sweat over being left temporarily homeless, but thankfully will be moved in time.

    As the poster above suggested, you could ask that they give you the 84 days notice, or, if it works out for both of you, agree that they give you X notice (which could be less than the 84 days, so for example a 30/45/60 days notice), so that they'll be giving you sufficient notice for you to get new tenants in.


  • #4
    Old diesel
    Registered Users Posts: 5,781 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    Tenants are probably worried that if they give you a date and then there's a delay then they are stuck with no place to stay .


  • #5
    FishOnABike
    Registered Users Posts: 4,339 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Lux23 wrote: »
    I suppose you could enforce the terms, and ask that they give you 84 days notice. I think that's the fairest thing for you.
    Old diesel wrote: »
    Tenants are probably worried that if they give you a date and then there's a delay then they are stuck with no place to stay .
    A bit of both I'd say - The tenants don't want to give official notice until they know when they are moving into their new house but they also need to be aware of their responsibility to give the required 84 day notice.


    They can't have their cake and eat it. If they want the certainty of overlapping their tenancy with moving they may need to be prepared to pay for it. this could be anything from next to nothing up to the full rent for 84 days depending on how quickly the property can be relet.


  • #6
    tigger123
    Registered Users Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭tigger123


    FishOnABike wrote: »
    A bit of both I'd say - The tenants don't want to give official notice until they know when they are moving into their new house but they also need to be aware of their responsibility to give the required 84 day notice.


    They can't have their cake and eat it. If they want the certainty of overlapping their tenancy with moving they may need to be prepared to pay for it. this could be anything from next to nothing up to the full rent for 84 days depending on how quickly the property can be relet.

    Does this impact whether you have to give the full 84 days or not (as a tenant)?


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  • #7
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    If they've been good tenants and are keeping you in the loop cut them some slack imho. You'll rent at short notice easily enough in most urban areas, trickier if it's a hard to let place.


  • #8
    ChewBerecca
    Registered Users Posts: 301 ✭✭ChewBerecca


    We're tenants in a similar situation but have not yet given notice to our landlord. We fully intend on giving the required notice and paying rent appropriately (even if we move out early), however we don't want a situation where our house purchase falls through (we've signed but not exchanged) or is delayed again.

    I'd say your tenants might be waiting to provide official notice but it doesn't hurt to ask if they will be giving you an exit date.


  • #9
    FishOnABike
    Registered Users Posts: 4,339 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    FishOnABike wrote: »
    A bit of both I'd say - The tenants don't want to give official notice until they know when they are moving into their new house but they also need to be aware of their responsibility to give the required 84 day notice.


    They can't have their cake and eat it. If they want the certainty of overlapping their tenancy with moving they may need to be prepared to pay for it. this could be anything from next to nothing up to the full rent for 84 days depending on how quickly the property can be relet.
    tigger123 wrote: »
    Does this impact whether you have to give the full 84 days or not (as a tenant)?
    Legally the tenant has to give the required 84 days notice. If the tenant moves out with less than the required notice they are liable for the resultant loss but the LL is obliged to mitigate that loss.


    I'd agree with STC
    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    If they've been good tenants and are keeping you in the loop cut them some slack imho. You'll rent at short notice easily enough in most urban areas, trickier if it's a hard to let place.


    The LL can agree to less notice and it can be best all round if there is a bit of give and take if there is good communication between the LL and tenanat with the LL helping the tenant by accepting less notice if they are kept in the loop and the tenant facilitating viewings for a quick relet near their moving date.


  • #10
    stratowide
    Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭stratowide


    I was in this situation when buying my house.Was dealing with a letting agent and was there four years.

    She said that we will take it on a month by month basis.I pay one month in advance on rent day.it was an informal arrangement.It took about 4 months for me to sign contracts.

    Think I lost about 2 weeks rent in the overlap.couldnt be helped really.

    She was very accommodating about it.She told me afterwards that a new tenant moved in the following week.

    Everyone was happy.


  • #11
    tigger123
    Registered Users Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭tigger123


    FishOnABike wrote: »
    Legally the tenant has to give the required 84 days notice. If the tenant moves out with less than the required notice they are liable for the resultant loss but the LL is obliged to mitigate that loss.

    Cheers for the response. Is it in the legislation that the landlord is required to mitigate the loss?


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  • #12
    Old diesel
    Registered Users Posts: 5,781 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    tigger123 wrote: »
    FishOnABike wrote: »
    Legally the tenant has to give the required 84 days notice. If the tenant moves out with less than the required notice they are liable for the resultant loss but the LL is obliged to mitigate that loss.

    Cheers for the response. Is it in the legislation that the landlord is required to mitigate the loss?

    I believe there might be an established legal precedent on "obligation to mitigate loss" from a case involving a fishing boat back in the 70s.

    Edit someone leased a fishing boat out and the person they leased it to breached contract .

    However AFTER that the person who owned it let it go into desrepair.

    They took a case for the breach of contract and the boat going into desrepair.

    But the boat went into desrepair due to owner neglecting it AFTER getting it back .

    So judge made a finding that basically established a legal precedent that you are obliged to mitigate loss.

    In the Fishing boat case the owner should have taken steps to protect the boats condition.


  • #13
    FishOnABike
    Registered Users Posts: 4,339 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    tigger123 wrote: »
    Cheers for the response. Is it in the legislation that the landlord is required to mitigate the loss?
    I don't think it's anywhere in the Residential Tenancy Act. I'm not a legal professional but I understand it is a general principle that a person should try to mitigate any loss. i.e. in the above circumstances if the tenants moved out with only one months notice the landlord could not simply sit on his/her hands for another fifty-three days and expect the tenant to pay for those fifty-threee days. The LL would have to advertise and relet the property without undue delay but the tenant could be held liable for any loss of rent arising from the period of vacancy due to their inadequate notice.

    Edit: I see someone more knowledgeable than I has given an explanation of the principle / precedent of mitigating a loss


  • #14
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    If they've been good tenants and are keeping you in the loop cut them some slack imho. You'll rent at short notice easily enough in most urban areas, trickier if it's a hard to let place.

    and if she doesnt the tenant will pay any short fall in revenue ?


  • #15
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    handlemaster wrote: »
    and if she doesnt the tenant will pay any short fall in revenue ?

    It's not about extracting every possible cent from people it's about doing the decent thing. Otherwise we're no better and possibly worse than the REITs.


  • #16
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    handlemaster wrote: »
    and if she doesnt the tenant will pay any short fall in revenue ?

    in theory yes, up-to the end of the notice statutory notice period.

    Wasn't that already posted?


  • #17
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    It's not about extracting every possible cent from people it's about doing the decent thing. Otherwise we're no better and possibly worse than the REITs.

    Whos talking about getting the last cent. Whats owed is owed.


  • #18
    JJJackal
    Registered Users Posts: 1,016 ✭✭✭JJJackal


    I think 30 days notice should be adequate if they allow viewings during that time. Keep the tenant landlord relationship good.


  • #19
    JJJackal
    Registered Users Posts: 1,016 ✭✭✭JJJackal


    handlemaster wrote: »
    and if she doesnt the tenant will pay any short fall in revenue ?

    Even if they give 84 days noitce, they dont have to allow viewings so what are the chances of having a tenant lined up?


  • #20
    antix80
    Registered Users Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭antix80


    Op, this is their problem and not yours. They are literally spending hundreds of thousands of euro on a new home. You can't advertise it until you know when they're moving out. If you waive their notice period , you stand to lose thousands.
    They could, i suppose, continue to rent from you and rent out their new home short-term if money is a problem.

    The fairest solution is to promise to try to rent out your house as soon as they move, in which case you will not charge them rent from the date the new tenant moves in. This will encourage them to permit viewings.

    But don't promise to waive the notice period and don't attempt to find a new tenant until you receive notice because you'll be wasting time.


  • #21
    antix80
    Registered Users Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭antix80


    stratowide wrote: »
    She said that we will take it on a month by month basis.I pay one month in advance on rent day.it was an informal arrangement.It took about 4 months for me to sign contracts.

    Now the tenant has long-term tenancy rights, and the landlord has only 1 month's notice required... This is not a good arrangement!

    It's formal for the tenant but informal for the landlord, and its no way to do business.

    Never waive your rights. You can still treat people well, and the LL doesn't have to leave the house vacant 3 mths while charging the old tenant. But they shouldn't be out of pocket if they can't find a new tenant at short notice.


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  • #22
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    JJJackal wrote: »
    Even if they give 84 days noitce, they dont have to allow viewings so what are the chances of having a tenant lined up?

    so your saying they can be dicks if the landlord doesnt be very flexible with the possibility with that of not renting the property for a period of time


  • #23
    JJJackal
    Registered Users Posts: 1,016 ✭✭✭JJJackal


    handlemaster wrote: »
    so your saying they can be dicks if the landlord doesnt be very flexible with the possibility with that of not renting the property for a period of time

    If the landlord is not flexible why should the tenants be.

    As i said a rolling 30 day lease with the opportunity for viewing in the last month would be ideal - then everyone is flexible reasonable and no one is out of pocket


  • #24
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    JJJackal wrote: »
    If the landlord is not flexible why should the tenants be.

    As i said a rolling 30 day lease with the opportunity for viewing in the last month would be ideal - then everyone is flexible reasonable and no one is out of pocket

    I think its the tenants who is not be realistic and not been fair , they want to leave then they must give a date.


  • #25
    Lux23
    Registered Users Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    handlemaster wrote: »
    I think its the tenants who is not be realistic and not been fair , they want to leave then they must give a date.

    At the same time though, they will never need a landlord's reference again, so they could just tell him tough tittie once they get their move in date. Must happen a lot.


  • #26
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Lux23 wrote: »
    At the same time though, they will never need a landlord's reference again, so they could just tell him tough tittie once they get their move in date. Must happen a lot.

    It's a tenants market . The law is all for the tenant. Even if the tenant is wrong the landlord has no way to enforce without Hugh cost. Even then there is no clean way to collect.


  • #27
    murphaph
    Registered Users Posts: 19,017 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    I had the same last year. I agreed 1 month's notice (84 days were legally required) with my tenants if they facilitated viewings. The house is in Dublin so one viewing was enough in the end.


  • #28
    Old diesel
    Registered Users Posts: 5,781 ✭✭✭Old diesel


    handlemaster wrote: »
    JJJackal wrote: »
    If the landlord is not flexible why should the tenants be.

    As i said a rolling 30 day lease with the opportunity for viewing in the last month would be ideal - then everyone is flexible reasonable and no one is out of pocket

    I think its the tenants who is not be realistic and not been fair , they want to leave then they must give a date.

    The tenants have not YET been unfair.

    All they've done to date is to say they are sorting a new house for themselves etc and will be looking to move out.

    The unfairness if any is how the process of leaving plays out.

    Cant really give a date when they don't know the exact date the new house is ready.


  • #29
    handlemaster
    Registered Users Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Old diesel wrote: »
    The tenants have not YET been unfair.

    All they've done to date is to say they are sorting a new house for themselves etc and will be looking to move out.

    The unfairness if any is how the process of leaving plays out.

    Cant really give a date when they don't know the exact date the new house is ready.

    No issue if they give the required notice period. Will they ? Or will they like other irish tenants not give a hoot and leave the landlord on the hook


  • #30
    charlietheminxx
    Registered Users Posts: 2,579 ✭✭✭charlietheminxx


    I'm on the other side of a similar situation. Myself and my partner are renting, we put a deposit down on a house in February and told our landlord straight away. We've kept him in the loop along the way, but there have been a lot of delays (more frustrating for us than for anyone else!).

    He's been pretty flexible with us, but goes away for the winter every year. What we ended up agreeing was that if there are any further delays to the date we have now, and he wasn't able to find a new tenant before he goes, that we would pay the rent for the time he is away. I think it is pretty unlikely he won't find a tenant anyway - it's a bit far out from town but it's a nice location, bus stop right outside, rent isn't mad.

    It's going to be a serious strain on our finances if it comes down to it, but he has been so flexible with us and we aren't going to leave him stuck.


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  • #31
    Salary Negotiator
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,148 ✭✭✭Salary Negotiator


    charlietheminxx wrote: »
    I'm on the other side of a similar situation. Myself and my partner are renting, we put a deposit down on a house in February and told our landlord straight away. We've kept him in the loop along the way, but there have been a lot of delays (more frustrating for us than for anyone else!).

    He's been pretty flexible with us, but goes away for the winter every year. What we ended up agreeing was that if there are any further delays to the date we have now, and he wasn't able to find a new tenant before he goes, that we would pay the rent for the time he is away. I think it is pretty unlikely he won't find a tenant anyway - it's a bit far out from town but it's a nice location, bus stop right outside, rent isn't mad.

    It's going to be a serious strain on our finances if it comes down to it, but he has been so flexible with us and we aren't going to leave him stuck.

    Be cheaper to pay for his flights back from where ever he goes for the winter.

    If I was you, and wanted to be fair to him, I'd only be paying out my notice period and not any longer.


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