TV's with DVB-T2 (DTT) AND Satellite Tuners

I also think it is better to get a DBV-T2 boxes as even the transmission is not just ready for T2, whenever it will change over to DVB-T2 format, the boxes are already there so the viewer does not need to go out and buy another kit.

Stacker De-Stacker Switch

Sam Russell wrote: »

Look, they have it all working now.

Yea at the network end. But the whole company formation, channel line-up negotiations with broadcasters will take at least a month or two. Set top boxes will take longer, to have sufficient quantity available from a variety of manufacturers (DVb-T1) MPEG4 boxes and TVs are only becoming more widely available here with DVB-T2 boxes on a few months behind given the UK market is skipping our intermediate spec and feeds the ROI TV market.

Sam Russell wrote: »

They just need to tell everyone, including those in the TV trade.

And how do you do that? I agree there are cheap ways to do this, such as news programmes like Prime Time etc. use of libraries, colleges with posters, Newspaper free CD explanation. But ultimately rather than just informing, as in the case of FTA DTT, you have to have a marketing campaign to attract subscribers to the pay DTT end, simple as. You have to set your stall and sell. Even Freeview do a little of that. That takes afew months from inviting pitches to selecting one, to booking airtime. You also have to put in place customer service teams etc... for the marketing and stb ends.

All that will simply take at least 3 months and maybe more. That's not to say it can't be done. But its alot of rushing. That's not to say they can't achieve launch by June. It just means rushing. So yes its possible, but of course if OneVision don't sign then you're definitely talking Christmas or Paddy's Day 2011.

I just have a feeling that One Vision may go with T2 boxes & seek transmitters upgrade to T2. Of course they mighn't & who knows they may not have been in a rush, striking for the best deal they could get, also aware of the T2 situation stb timeline before now, also seeking direction from their new parent towards DTT. Now its an option for them pre-launch. I think if the security bond is overcome & I think it might be, then you'll have launch. You could even see RTÉ NL invited to place a nominal shareholding in the project.

Sam Russell wrote: »

Tell everyone that the analogue goes off in 1st Jan 2011, and switch off the analogue one channel at a time. There is no quicker way of changing over than sitching off the old one. When my telly broke down, I went out and bought a new one, that day. If it has to be, the it has to be. People currently pay $ky and UPC upto €65 euros a month, the STB would be less than that as a single payment.

I agree as most know, like the Euro changeover, that the quickest way to increase subcribers to One Vision and save costs on broadcasting simultaneous analogue and digital is brief switchover. But this is a 'political decision' (Broadcating Act 2009), Minister has power here, ultimately and the Government will want to be seen to give people time to switchover. Ultimately it makes sense for us to co-time switchover with NI. That is something I think the BBC will be keen for. They're also keen for us to adopt DVB-T2 from their input in my dissertation about that as it simplifies matters.

One could switchover on dates according to transmitter over the 2 years, mirroring the UK set-up. That would be expensive method, as would rely on local papers which some don't read and be prolonged advertising, potential for confusion as to where you get signals from.

The big bang is cheaper, to inform just turn them off first at Donnybrook, then decomission the analogue setup.

The thing is that the Analogue Switchover Group was only recently formed presumably once negotiations were at an advanced sate in the BAI licensee signed off. RTÉ being in the 3rd consortium would obviously speed things up.

At which point then stakeholders will be invited. At the moment, its only to advise the Minister internal department group, its not a stakeholders panel which probably explains http://www.tvaccess.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=88:dttprogress&catid=45:digital-terrestrial-television-articles&Itemid=65

One Vision not to have clarity about approach from the Government beyond 'sometime in 2012'. I suspect that once there's a DTT sign-off that that will start in earnest.

I suspect they'll go with a big bang similar to NI. Ideally if we could get NI to bring forward to switchover to the same time as us, it would be great and that means that January 1st 2012 is do-able. 1 year is enough. You have to give people time.

Sam Russell wrote: »

The ESB could distribute the new STBs if they were cheap enough, they used to do cookers. Or maybe Eircom could leave them on the doorsteps like they do with the Yellow Pages.:D

I think yer being humourous there hahahaha...ESB are out of that a few years now, with no appetite presumably to get back into it. As ror Eircom, I think they'll look to sell the set top box through retailers rather than offer them for free to every household with their Eircom Phonebook. BTW, Yellowpages is owned by Truvo I think, not Eircom I think,anymore see: http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/836427m-profit-for-golden-pages-producer-1727852.html

Sam Russell wrote: »

There is no money for a big campaign, but word of mouth, and telling people through the tranmitters that it will soon be switched off is cheaper and more effective.

You'll find that there is money for a campaign. Any company launching a commercial product has to have one.

The problem about telling people through the transmitters could scare the bejasus out of some people. That solution is more suited to ASO, which is used in UK. I've advocated word of mouth to as in Town Hall type meetings I call them travelling roadshows in universities, chambers of commerce, etc with demos and information on nearest retailer. Definitely and internet are the cost effective methods. But Newspapers and TV and probably radio have to be used aswell. But it doesn't need to be a big campaign. More a sustained one. And its not a complicated proposition.

For example: UK is going digital as is Europe, satellite has gone digital, cable is undergoing digital presently.
terrestrial (transmission to aerial) in RO Ireland is finally going digital

Why? More radiowave capacity=more channel capacity 4*8 or 10 but less radiowave required needed
More services available and integration with internet
Better viewing expericence
Greater choice
Home regulated service, Irish jobs, more channels from Irish broadcasters
3rd Force competition for Pay TV- One Vision

Simple enough!

Well that's what I was meaning. That's it, no doubt RTÉ & TV3 helping out. But they have to watch this one or they'll have UPC and Sky on their back crying fowl unless they charge for ads, which they would. But also Sound & Vision Fund can be used for this aswell. Prime Time would do alot of explaining, followed up by a check uptake every month just to keep it in the public eye.

RF cable is usually an option on stb's. The main job will be picking up the tab for those on social welfare or pensioners. This is the part the Government could do without, but they'll have to pick up part or all of that cost.

I know what you're saying, the dept can go the cheap way. But is that informing people properly? On a TV ad will do that. I suspect they'll have to pay for airtime etc as they did with Change.ie promoting the website, basic explanation like i said. I suggest Séana Squirrel as the digital Mascot!!

With competitors. In my view One Vision should consider offering the monthly and weekly Top-Up options which would be more expensive than annual subscriptions. I'll say it again, USB sticks, and also offer the channels from One Vision's website via online aswell. My One Vision broadband TV! as Boxer Sweden have started doing over the last year, cos TV is heading towards broadband!

Well ya know how things are done here lol. Easy going, informally, oh...we better do something, quick, a news conference, that'll do hehehe.

I know its not funny but that's the way we often do things. Well I looked at how the UK & others did it and did dissertation on it and that's with them gratis.


The point is that TV is considered bigger business than TV. Prime Time would be more prominent than the News. A programme devoted to it across all TV channels would be the way to go including Sky.

I think you'll see One Vision as the main ones pushing it. I'll be interested to see how much the Dept put into it there at, just at the start for a few days and then towards the ASO end.

It can be very quick, along lines points I suggested, and the website

http://www.digitaltelevision.ie.

I think to show balance they're going to have to add links to Sky and UPC aswell or they'll get criticism for promoting one platform over others.

I think really that website will need to be jigged up about all providers.

No, its not totally all about getting people to have FTA TV. If it was RTÉ would have been given an earlier launch date.

Instead it has been Dept policy over the last few years that it would be combination of both that is best for DTT. That makes sense and what the UK doesn't. But then a Top-up TV type service didn't succeed in getting the license which was lost to Freeview TV. It arrived 2 years later.

.With that in mind, of getting best return on investment Having FTA DTT go ahead of Pay DTT as we see in the UK undermines the potential of pay DTT. If you look at the answer of the Minister to TV Access he takes advice from RTÉ on the matter. RTÉ has to run as much as business as it can to not lose money. See: http://www.tvaccess.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=88:dttprogress&catid=45:digital-terrestrial-television-articles&Itemid=65

For DTT to pay its investment back to RTÉ, it needs Pay DTT rental payments to pay back its sunk investment. That's the reality. RTÉ hasn't got any Rupert Murdoch behind it.

Otherwise RTÉ might be aswell throwing its lot in with broadband providers and just switching of the ATT network full stop insisting on cable and satellite and broadband.

That's the reason that has been stated and restated by RTÉ on a few occasions over the last year. And I understand that. Its business versus enthusiast. Its a business. RTÉ NL are part of Easy TV so they may well see that as their next option and would be in a position having gone through 2 consortia already what is needed. RTÉ have to launch anyways commercially so why not doing it with UPC. And if not with UPC, I suspect Sky would be more than happy to step in in UPC's place and see can it expand its subscriber base, driving a hard bargain with the BAI as the remaining hope for DTT!

So I think this is happening with Pay DTT, simply because RTÉ require it to make back the suck investment in DTT.

What you're talking about is a Freeview model and of course it could be done on the cheap but newspapers isn't enough and one programme on TV. It has to be advertised.

Also Freeview would depend on getting enough Free to Air channels on DTT. That might be possible with UK Channels joining. Would they pay to join and make it back in advertising? I don't know, and with cable it works the other way.

I suspect launch will be in Summer/Autumn if One Vision sign and Paddy's Day if they don't and giving people 6 months is abit tight. People need a year, from early adopters to slow coaches. I know what you're saying, it could be done in 6months, it probably could. And there'd be benefits in that but really ideally its better to co-time with NI on it though we could witch ourselves too.

But, indications are good from One Vision's recent shareholding changes if you also read:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...261300612.html bodes well for DTT, doesn't it! No surprise about the increased stake. Makes sign-off quite likely now.

John Collins writes in Irish Times: 'SINGAPORE-BASED STT has indicated to the Communications Regulator that it will invest in Eircom’s network infrastructure when it acquires the business and that it intends to stay in Ireland for the long term....“From our discussions with them they are looking at Eircom like it’s a telco and not an ATM,” said John Doherty, chairman of ComReg told The Irish Times '

It seems its prepared to invest money. So I think indications are good. Am just surprised Sky aren't taking a stake in the operation. But hey, they may be happy enough not to create more competition for themselves. Anyways, pay DTT is win win for Sky whether or not they're directly involved. More advertising reach and for sub channels wholesale royalty payment per subscriber to them.

Eh Sam, no I totally get what you're saying. The problem is, it doesn't help RTÉ to launch at a seperate time and make the pay DTT business more difficult by people having to swap stb for the pay one etc. Its cheaper to advertise FTA and Pay DTT at the same time, in the one ad. Also its easier to sign people up when they already have a pay DTT compliant box. No swapping involved, no wastage of equipment. RTÉ have to think of the Pay DTT side because if things don't work out for that operation, RTÉ are left with 3 muxes doing nothing and no way to make back their investment.

Its not about so much that what they've spent already. Its the ability to make back that investment. That's why they have to wait until all options are exhausted before going that direction.

I can understand that. I understand they could do Freeview TV promotion cheaply but the problem with that is that alot of people aren't technical, don't know about it, won't bother going into a TV store cos they know little about it and could be liable to being told all sorts of lies as you know regarding the switchover. Word of mouth works to a point, but is liable to wrong information without a proper info campaign.

That's why you need advertising to tell them. And pay DTT can do that for you for smaller cost. You just pool your contribution with theirs.

Launching early won't help RTÉ to make back its investment. Waiting makes more economic sense and pooling promotion with Pay DTT does. I get your impatience, we all feel it.

7 months with Boxer and 7 months again. I think Boxer shouldn't have been let go on so long.

But this was the 1st license negotiation for the BAI of DTT. Also there was an economic crisis happening and it was changing the business case for them so I can understand the BAI giving them time. Boxer i guess made the assessment on the economic environment primarily.

Also the BAI was undergoing new legislation affecting them and they had to prepare for what was in that, digest it.

They're over that so they can give full concentration this time. And unlike with Boxer, they have cracked the whip by saying publicly they need decisions now, recently. I think Boxer talked alot of bluster about their plans being recession proof. But it turned out, that they were not, they cited it as one of their reasons. The security bond was the other. Boxer Sweden in the end got cold feet. Communicorp had more interest but on their own, they hadn't the interest to put so much dosh into it.

For Eircom its a different proposition, its also about complimenting its existing services. Its about broadband drivers. I've tried to push Amigo TV because I think it could encourage broadband for TV via this 'exciting service', you have avatar sales from it and so forth. But its up to TV3 now to seek that be included, who I emailed.

So from the economic point of view waiting is better, though I too am impatient, I accept waiting is best. But I think something is going to happen and a launch will in 2011 for sure. Easy TV can decide quick enough if One Vision don't and if not for UPC, I suspect Sky would be interested. And if not Sky, well I still think RTÉ would do it themselves and do Pay DTT. Freeview TV just doesn't make economic sense for RTÉ. Its different in the UK and I think they should have not branded seperately to Top UP TV. They should go in with that operation and make afew bob, its not best use of the platform in the UK.

I know what yer saying Sam about the stb. But unfortunately it has to be the moterway closed without the toll because once you launch a thing its hard to come after and get subscribers on board. RTÉ have to factor in pay DTT in order to help their return on investment. That's the delay their side. They've done well spending to this point which they could have held up waiting for the pay operator. That we have a service is credit to them. It also makes things very attractive for the pay operator that alot of the country at launch will be covered. Very good really for them.

I do think the BAI went on too long. The good thing now is we have DVB-T2 as an option that wouldn't have been there had things happened sooner. Also Eircom has a new owner. So yea, its gone on a long time but I guess that's done. So I'd be patient with RTÉ on it cos we wouldn't have DTT to watch in tests if RTÉ had delayed their roll out.

But basically they aren't finished testing anyways. People can watch the tests. But they don't want to have too many fta boxes out there because you have to go swapping.Also you're talking about branding and testing. Its cheaper for RTÉ to tie in with One Vision on box certification. Now if people insist on buying FTA boxes from the UK, well they can't stop people. But at least the idea would be if people buy a pay DTT compliant box, they can still use it for FTA DTT, but the point is that subscribing to pay DTT becomes very easy. And that's better for RTÉ return on DTT investment if its good for the one that's paying rental costs. I guess I'm sympathetic to RTÉ trying to be as cost effective as possible on this and delaying. I feel TV stars are overpaid but I guess they're doing that to avoid having them go across the water to England. But still I think there would always be takers here more than happy to fill their places. So I think they are paid too much.

Again they'd have to advertise the fact in some way. Its cheaper to promote at same time as pay DTT. Goes back to what I side. Cheaper to launch at same time on pay DTT box. Yes encryption adds cost to viewer but their primary concern is to make back the DTT investment. After that cost of stb and government comes in there also.

Until DAB coverage is extended I don't expect them to promote it. I suspect they want to get DTT going first, then with the rental on that they can expand DAB. I'd guess that's the thinking.

DAB won't gain traction til it is promoted properly. You can see that. How many people know about it? DAB stations on DTT will be a big help there to advertise the fact. I suspect they'll combine Digital Radio and DTT in the ads with One Vision campaign.

Also analogue radio needs a switch-off in order to drag commercial radio onto it here. Commercial radio has concerns about too many competitors savaging each other on the more spacious DAB network. That's where I think BAI will have to set a limit on number of stations given that we have more spectrum than population can sustain for radio. I guess if the BAI are too allow more then they need to reduce license costs or else limit the number of stations. One or the other. They have to be sympathetic to the business also.

Also I feel radio can grow its base by radio stations getting into DTT aswell as simulcast radio-tv stations. A TV camera in the radio studios like Morning Ireland do on RTÉ1. You could even offer basic TV ads simulcast on radio shown full screen on the TV. Of course more spectrum would be required on DTT. That's the difficulty, the cost, they'd need a TV broadcasting license then, which would argue the return on investment. However that's the way I see Local TV starting, simulcasting radio and TV bar afew TV programmes.

Another option is a TV channel that shows 1 show from a programme from each radio station in the country. You could call in Local TV. Local stations broadcasting nationally on DTT could be very popular. Also DAB could allow local stations to broadcast nationally too.

I think if you see local stations on DAB broadcasting nationally, that it will give the national TV stations a kick up the bum. National stations don't cover enough local issues, and cover too much Dublin centric national stuff. County Councils for instance when water is cut off due to reservoir shortages should be contacting national stations and TV and it should get aired.

DTT as great potential in this area to inform via teletext.

T-Square wrote: »

This should be enough to get the free to air terresterial stuff?

• Integrated freesat tuner – watch free-to-air HD and SD satellite broadcasts without the need for an additional set top box
• Watch digital TV with the integrated standard definition digital terrestrial tuner (MPEG-2, also receives analogue)
• Watch cable TV with the integrated digital cable tuner (subject to country and with supported operators only

I was thinking of going to Maplins, to buy something discreet, has anyone bought something they would recommend from them?

Apogee wrote: »

Your Sony TV should be capable of displaying the Irish terrestrial stuff and you should not need an extra box. What type of aerial do you currently use to receive TV3 and TG4 on analogue?

Just viewing what is on freesat at the moment.
Not getting TV3 and TG4 at the moment, but my wife has been asking about them, looking for them.
I have a (encrypted) NTL feed near the TV, if I got the correct coax cable/connector, would I get something from it?
We were hoping to get some Bulgarian stuff from the free sat but am getting nothing, the dish was previously used by the sky box. Does it need re pointing?

It looks like DVB-T2 MPEG4 TVs will be released sooner than some posters were betting when they said later in the year 2nd half of 2010. This is more good news for Irish DTT, because it will mean that future-proof compatible Irish DTT ready TVs will be available ahead of Irish DTT launch and that this Freeview incompatibility will soon go away.

Of course the flip side, is that it may discourage some folks from buying the One Vision STB and instead buy a Irish DTT compatibly TV that provides the FTA DTT channcels. No doubt, there should be CI slot for subscription services. There probably will be some folks that will stick with their current TV. I wonder what has been done by broadcasters regarding the UK Channels, what the view of One Vision is as to whether UK terrestrial channels will be available free-to-air. The likelihood is they will be part of the basic I suppose. But of course, those within the Freeview HD area in Dublin and later NI, when the power is turned up in 2012/13 are likely to not subscribe to these as they will be available free.

See: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/technology/2010/01/06/lg-prepping-tons-of-freeview-hd-tvs-115875-21947711/

LG says that with a summer chock full of sport, from Wimbledon to the World Cup, it’s planning on loading up 50 per cent of all its TVs with Freeview HD. That means you won’t need to pay a penny extra to see England crash out in pathetic fashion in South Africa or Andy Murray slink out of the All England Championships early doors.

Freeview HD: Everything you need to know

LG says Freeview HD will land in its LE 8900, LE 7900 and LE 5900 LED TVs, with the LCD LD 790 and LD 690 also playing nice. Plasma fans can grab the PK 590, PK 790 or PK 950. All models will be available in April.

scath wrote: »

It looks like DVB-T2 MPEG4 TVs will be released sooner than some posters were betting when they said later in the year 2nd half of 2010. This is more good news for Irish DTT, because it will mean that future-proof compatible Irish DTT ready TVs will be available ahead of Irish DTT launch and that this Freeview incompatibility will soon go away.

Of course the flip side, is that it may discourage some folks from buying the One Vision STB and instead buy a Irish DTT compatibly TV that provides the FTA DTT channcels. No doubt, there should be CI slot for subscription services. There probably will be some folks that will stick with their current TV. I wonder what has been done by broadcasters regarding the UK Channels, what the view of One Vision is as to whether UK terrestrial channels will be available free-to-air. The likelihood is they will be part of the basic I suppose. But of course, those within the Freeview HD area in Dublin and later NI, when the power is turned up in 2012/13 are likely to not subscribe to these as they will be available free.

See: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/technology/2010/01/06/lg-prepping-tons-of-freeview-hd-tvs-115875-21947711/

LG says that with a summer chock full of sport, from Wimbledon to the World Cup, it’s planning on loading up 50 per cent of all its TVs with Freeview HD. That means you won’t need to pay a penny extra to see England crash out in pathetic fashion in South Africa or Andy Murray slink out of the All England Championships early doors.

Freeview HD: Everything you need to know

LG says Freeview HD will land in its LE 8900, LE 7900 and LE 5900 LED TVs, with the LCD LD 790 and LD 690 also playing nice. Plasma fans can grab the PK 590, PK 790 or PK 950. All models will be available in April.

I dont think anybody has suggested that DVB-T2 equipment wont become available quickly. The point I was making was that manufacturers are not going to instantly switch over to DVB-T2 on all new models. That will take some time. Also likely that the DVB-T2 models will be the higher end models and therefore more expensive. In any case DVb-T2 is irrelevant for most of the country. As long as its DVb-T/MPEG4 as a minimum that will do the mojority of people.

That said the more MPEG4 TVs out there the better for Irish DTT.