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Fewer L plates on view?

2

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,756 ✭✭✭Dakota Dan


    Whether or not anyone was called to trial or no reflection of Mr Clancy, that would be the fault of the Gardai or DPS.

    True, but how does the woman that hit them feel every time she sees that ad, and she is a neighbour of theirs as well?


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 1,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭MascotDec85


    Stephen15 wrote: »

    That sounds good in theory but then you'd have to throw out the L plates every time a fully qualified driver drives a car used by a learner. I know the magnetic plates do exist but the adhesive ones seem way more popular.

    There are window cling L plates. Inside the window and non-adhesive. Can be taken on and off.
    In the UK people actually take the L plates off when not driven by a learner. It’s an another example of how people can’t be bothered doing things right or coming up with any excuse under the sun as to why it’s so hard to do.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Would it not be better for said individuals to replace the L plates with N plates as that would throw the scent off more than completely removing the L plates as a young looking under 21 person with no L or N plates would look more suspicious than not having any.

    I do think now that L or N plates look are pretty ineffective as most people seem to ignore them and treat as normal motorists unless it's obvious such as driving particularly slow or cutting out a number of times.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 1,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭MascotDec85


    Dakota Dan wrote: »

    True, but how does the woman that hit them feel every time she sees that ad, and she is a neighbour of theirs as well?
    No doubt not as bad as Mr. Clancy feels most wakening moments of every day having to cope with having his wife and daughter taken from him so tragically. I know where my sympathies lie


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    There are window cling L plates. Inside the window and non-adhesive. Can be taken on and off.
    In the UK people actually take the L plates off when not driven by a learner. It’s an another example of how people can’t be bothered doing things right or coming up with any excuse under the sun as to why it’s so hard to do.

    I have those window cling ones myself as I am learner. But I'd think they would lose they're ability to cling to the window if they were constantly being taken on and off.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,756 ✭✭✭Dakota Dan


    No doubt not as bad as Mr. Clancy feels most wakening moments of every day having to cope with having his wife and daughter taken from him so tragically. I know where my sympathies lie

    True, but I know too many young people that died over someone else's fault but they didn't have to look at a tv ad to keep reminding them of their failures.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,359 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    I never put up L plates when I was on a provisional purely to stay under the radar. It’s very rarely you get asked for your license at a checkpoint normally once you have your discs in order you are just waved through but L plates re going to get you questioned without doubt.


    This is why Gardai need ANPR to identify vehicles insured for L drivers or even from the same address.


    No it shouldn’t, idiotic rule is what it would be. Cars have multiple drivers, some full, some N and some L or a mix. In my opinion it’s not feasible to keep putting up and taking down plates for different drivers. It’s also pointless, so what if a full driver has L or N plates up etc.


    What on earth use is a plate to inform people that you are inexperienced if a load of experienced people drive with them up? Putting up a plate would not take 30 secs. If this is not changed forthwith then the whole thing is obviously not serious however many hard hitting ads they put on the TV.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 1,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭MascotDec85


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    I have those window cling ones myself as I am learner. But I'd think they would lose they're ability to cling to the window if they were constantly being taken on and off.

    If they’re crumpled up and thrown on the back seat or in the glove box they will. If looked after they won’t.

    Sadly, I saw a tester out the other day with a candidate with both L and Ns up.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 1,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭MascotDec85


    Dakota Dan wrote: »

    True, but I know too many young people that died over someone else's fault but they didn't have to look at a tv ad to keep reminding them of their failures.

    I’m not being funny buts that’s 2 replies you’ve given me which started with “true” then followed up with whataboutery.

    If people actually were culpable and responsible for their own actions and did what they were supposed to do, ie. drive safely and accompanied until the state agency deemed them capable of driving alone (then continue to drive like they were taught) we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

    I’m in Ireland 18 years. I’m a driving instructor for 8.5 of those years. The excuses that get trotted out every time something is brought in to try and change the mindset of this country is unreal.
    When EDT came in I said it would take a generation to get people doing the right thing when it came to learning to drive. I think I underestimated it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,756 ✭✭✭Dakota Dan


    I’m not being funny buts that’s 2 replies you’ve given me which started with “true” then followed up with whataboutery.

    If people actually were culpable and responsible for their own actions and did what they were supposed to do, ie. drive safely and accompanied until the state agency deemed them capable of driving alone (then continue to drive like they were taught) we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

    I’m in Ireland 18 years. I’m a driving instructor for 8.5 of those years. The excuses that get trotted out every time something is brought in to try and change the mindset of this country is unreal.
    When EDT came in I said it would take a generation to get people doing the right thing when it came to learning to drive. I think I underestimated it.
    So you're in Ireland 18 years not your entire life I presume? I'm here 54 years and yes I agree you have to abide by the rules and I totally agree about being accompanied by a full licence driver as I did with my son and he didn't drive unaccompanied until he passed the test. I took him out driving every evening for practice and he passed the test first go and is accident free since, 6 years on, touch wood. But I still believe that that man is on over kill. he said that he would never forgive his neighbour which is harsh. I know a twin that accidentally killed his twin and was in bits over it and almost took his life over it but his parents managed to console him, you also have to think of the people that are living with the consequences.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Dakota Dan wrote:
    But I still believe that that man is on over kill. he said that he would never forgive his neighbour which is harsh. I know a twin that accidentally killed his twin and was in bits over it and almost took his life over it but his parents managed to console him, you also have to think of the people that are living with the consequences.


    The man lost his wife and daughter to the stupidity of another person but you think his response is overkill? Mr Clancy is living with the consequences , I don't think I would have the strength to carry on after seeing my family destroyed. If the ad saves one life its worth it.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 1,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭MascotDec85


    Dakota Dan wrote: »
    So you're in Ireland 18 years not your entire life I presume? I'm here 54 years and yes I agree you have to abide by the rules and I totally agree about being accompanied by a full licence driver as I did with my son and he didn't drive unaccompanied until he passed the test. I took him out driving every evening for practice and he passed the test first go and is accident free since, 6 years on, touch wood. But I still believe that that man is on over kill. he said that he would never forgive his neighbour which is harsh. I know a twin that accidentally killed his twin and was in bits over it and almost took his life over it but his parents managed to console him, you also have to think of the people that are living with the consequences.

    Until you’ve walked a mile in Noel Clancy’s shoes I don’t think any of us are of the position to say what he should or shouldn’t do or how he should feel or shouldn’t feel.
    The other story you tell is, without doubt, tragic but it’s totally incomparable to the one we’re discussing. Any parent would forgive their child for killing their sibling unless it was intentional and even then, some still would. That’s what unconditional love does.
    The Clancy situation is another ballpark altogether imo.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    If you have to display plates then yes if there are multiple drivers I would in no way expect them to have to be put up and taken down all the time.

    I don’t think there should be any plates though, N plates especially I have no idea of the point and L plates either I don’t see the point. I drive the same regardless if the car in front has no plates, L plates or N plates, stupid idiotic baby on board stickers etc etc.

    and yet they seem to manage it OK on the neighbouring island.

    To be honest you would be very foolish not to modify your driving with a learner driver in front of you.The problem and your thinking of course comes from the crazy situation for years when people were allowed drive on a Provisional. It took the Government far to long to get it sorted, but ,if they enforce this, they are going in the right direction now


  • Posts: 0 Sarai Some Vessel


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    That sounds good in theory but then you'd have to throw out the L plates every time a fully qualified driver drives a car used by a learner. I know the magnetic plates do exist but the adhesive ones seem way more popular.

    Other countries manage. Why not here?

    OP, one secondary school in south Tipperary banned learner drivers, both students and teachers from parking in the school car park. One student got around this by turning up on a tractor!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭ Emely Disgusting Galaxy


    Other countries manage. Why not here?

    OP, one secondary school in south Tipperary banned learner drivers, both students and teachers from parking in the school car park. One student got around this by turning up on a tractor!

    Does any directive from the Department of Education exist in relation to bringing cars/motorbikes onto school property if they are used/belong to pupils?


  • Posts: 0 Sarai Some Vessel


    Does any directive from the Department of Education exist in relation to bringing cars/motorbikes onto school property if they are used/belong to pupils?

    I don’t know. Students always parked in the same car park as teachers in this particular school.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭ Emely Disgusting Galaxy


    I don’t know. Students always parked in the same car park as teachers in this particular school.

    And I’d imagine 99% of said students don’t hold a drivers licence.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭ Emely Disgusting Galaxy


    Clancy ad now on discovery channel. First time seeing it in full. I don’t know what to make of it. Prior to this I only heard audio.


  • Posts: 0 Sarai Some Vessel


    And I’d imagine 99% of said students don’t hold a drivers licence.

    This happened about 5 years ago and students were offered a voucher that would allow them park, but they had to produce their driving license and insurance certificates. Some felt it a bit ott.




  • Dakota Dan wrote: »
    Any time I was stopped at a checkpoint over the last 4 years the first tihing a garda asks for is your licence.

    It’s so long since I was asked for my license that I can’t really remember when it was but at a guess it’s about 8 years ago since I was last asked. I reckon in almost 17 years driving cars on the road I’ve been asked for my license maybe 6 or 7 times at most ever.

    I go through checkpoints very very rarely maybe 3 a year and 95% of the ones I’ve gone through don’t even fully stop me just look at the discs as I edge up to them and then start waving me on. The only exception I can think of was where I was stopped at a MAT checkpoint about 5 years ago and breathylised but they still didn’t ask for my license.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,456 ✭✭✭SweetCaliber


    It’s so long since I was asked for my license that I can’t really remember when it was but at a guess it’s about 8 years ago since I was last asked. I reckon in almost 17 years driving cars on the road I’ve been asked for my license maybe 6 or 7 times at most ever.

    I go through checkpoints very very rarely maybe 3 a year and 95% of the ones I’ve gone through don’t even fully stop me just look at the discs as I edge up to them and then start waving me on. The only exception I can think of was where I was stopped at a MAT checkpoint about 5 years ago and breathylised but they still didn’t ask for my license.

    I've only been asked for my license at MAT checkpoints, every one of them. The tax ones though, never.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    If the ad saves one life its worth it.
    The Clancy situation is another ballpark altogether imo.

    Hard cases often make bad law. And that may well turn out to be the case here. If as I suspect learner drivers are now even more inclined to leave their L plates off, it may actually result in a greater number of accidents.

    Will Minister Ross be around to answer for this in a few years? Will the RSA have new management then? I predict they'll be well able to wash their hands of it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,744 ✭✭✭appledrop


    This is exactly my worry. I'd always be more patient + keep distanced from L driver but now we won't know who most of them are.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,519 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    The l-driver who deliberately takes off their plates is to blame here. Sorry folks if that’s not popular. They were not forced or driven to it by the law, they chose to do it in contravention of the law.

    The law is clear, you need to do your lessons, you do not drive unaccompanied and you display your plates. This makes it safe for both the learner drivers and gives other drivers the warning they need to give space & time to the learner. By removing their plates, the learner is lying to everyone around them, potentially increasing the risk to other drivers.

    I have sympathy for people who need to drive for work etc, I truly do, but we need to get rid of our old-fashioned attitude to driver training. If a learner is driving unaccompanied, then they take responsibility for that, and if they are driving someone else’s car, then that person is also accountable, unless they can prove otherwise.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,419 ✭✭✭antix80


    I was driving behind an absolute jackass a few days ago.. hesitating at junctions, breaking, slowing down ... It was only when I got right up to his bumper that I noticed he had an L plate out of view on the boot of his saloon rather than the window.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 1,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭MascotDec85


    BarryD2 wrote: »

    Hard cases often make bad law. And that may well turn out to be the case here. If as I suspect learner drivers are now even more inclined to leave their L plates off, it may actually result in a greater number of accidents.

    Will Minister Ross be around to answer for this in a few years? Will the RSA have new management then? I predict they'll be well able to wash their hands of it.

    The L plate being on or off isn’t the main issue. The main issue is learners not following the law and driving unaccompanied.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 1,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭MascotDec85


    appledrop wrote: »
    This is exactly my worry. I'd always be more patient + keep distanced from L driver but now we won't know who most of them are.

    Here’s a novel idea, it might just catch on....be patient and keep your distance with everyone, learner or otherwise.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,001 ✭✭✭ Emely Disgusting Galaxy


    Here’s a novel idea, it might just catch on....be patient and keep your distance with everyone, learner or otherwise.

    Aye, ‘‘tis called the 2 second rule in the dry 4 in the wet, not many know that though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,732 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    dudara wrote: »
    The l-driver who deliberately takes off their plates is to blame here. Sorry folks if that’s not popular.

    It's not a question of popularity. Irish people have always cast a cold eye on matters of the law, a skeptical eye. If we perceive that legislation is appropriate, then it's broadly observed. If people think any part of legislation is impractical or unnecessary, then it's more inclined to be ignored. And particularly it'll be ignored if the chances of being caught are limited.

    I understand why the RSA/ Minister Ross bring in ever tighter legislation. They subscribe to the idea that they must make continuous improvements in order to justify their remits. The danger with this approach though is that you end up disrupting the greater proportion of the population for the sake of catching the few, who often don't give a toss anyway about licences, tax, insurance or alcohol intake. The law of diminishing returns sets in and otherwise law abiding people come to consider the law an ass.

    For the record and over three decades ago, I learnt to drive completely unaccompanied, no lessons - but I did display L plates then. Got lots of experience and passed the test readily. I look at many drivers now, many of who have had the whole remit of lessons and they can't even fecking reverse park a car properly.


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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 1,924 Mod ✭✭✭✭MascotDec85


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    It's not a question of popularity. Irish people have always cast a cold eye on matters of the law, a skeptical eye. If we perceive that legislation is appropriate, then it's broadly observed. If people think any part of legislation is impractical or unnecessary, then it's more inclined to be ignored. And particularly it'll be ignored if the chances of being caught are limited.

    I understand why the RSA/ Minister Ross bring in ever tighter legislation. They subscribe to the idea that they must make continuous improvements in order to justify their remits. The danger with this approach though is that you end up disrupting the greater proportion of the population for the sake of catching the few, who often don't give a toss anyway about licences, tax, insurance or alcohol intake. The law of diminishing returns sets in and otherwise law abiding people come to consider the law an ass.

    And there in lies the problem. What makes the Irish so different to any other culture that they feel it’s ok to pick and choose which laws they should adhere to?
    When will learning to drive ever be taken seriously and all laws attached to the process be followed?
    Using the UK as an example, very few learners would dream of driving unaccompanied until they’ve passed their test, it’s just not the done thing and there are also very rural parts of the UK too so that reasoning doesn’t wash with me.

    At the end of the day, a learner only has a permit to learn how to drive, not a licence allowing them to drive freely.


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