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Now ye're talking - to a Nurse

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  • Registered Users Posts: 279 ✭✭thegetawaycar


    Do you think if the Government brought in a policy making nurses complete 3 years post college in Irish hospitals or fees would be recouped would help the staffing situation and make hospitals safer for patients?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    Is the response time here typical of the HSE?


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,211 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    amcalester wrote: »
    Is the response time here typical of the HSE?
    This thread is also covered by the remit of the strike unfortunately


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭Yer Da sells Avon


    With regard to the strike, have you had any negative reaction from people 'in real life' - particularly patients and their families (who actually witness the work you do, day in, day out), or is that sort of unpleasantness confined to a minority of malcontents on the internet, none of whom have ever expressed a nice opinion in their lives?


  • Company Representative Posts: 71 Verified rep I'm a Nurse - AMA


    Hi Everyone.

    I am sorry for the delay in answering any questions but I will get on in a couple of hours once I get home from work. Thanks for all the questions so far and I'll be back on very soon

    :)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭Afollower


    Are the INMO and PNA Nurses getting paid while on strike? I've heard rumours that they are and, if so, it is very peculiar. I have never before heard of Union members on an official strike getting paid by their employer.

    So, a straight answer would be welcome please - are the Nurses who are striking getting paid?


  • Registered Users Posts: 30,019 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Do you believe all nurses are caring/kind?
    We often hear in the media about the nurses being lovely and kind/etc and most of them are. Do you ever encounter nurses who aren't?
    I know a good few nurses my age late twenties.
    Some just wanted to go to UCC(sort of keeping up with the Joneses) and it was sort of a job for life in a way and they'd threat people quite badly in reality.
    I'd also note most of the nurses I've encountered are lovely and kind.
    Do you think some people shouldn't have become nurses? Yes/No and Why?


  • Company Representative Posts: 71 Verified rep I'm a Nurse - AMA


    Hi Everyone,

    Again I am sorry for the delay but I was in work today :o

    Thank you to Niamh and Mark for sorting out this thread also.

    Before I get to some answers I just wanted to introduce myself a little.

    I have been a nurse for 10 years, in my 30s. In those 10 years I have worked as a general nurse in a specialist medical ward, an out patients clinic for a little while as they were short staffed at the time, a bank nurse (hours as required wherever you are needed) and an Emergency Department. I then made a move to children's nursing (best decision I've ever made) and I now work in a surgical ward that also deals with medical patients.

    I have spent 7 years in University, 4 for my degree and 3 further years completing 4 different courses to further my knowledge and my professional development.

    All of this is important for me to let you all know as it may show that I do have a broad experience of acute hospitals.

    I know this thread will be dominated by all that is currently in the news with the strike and everything else and I am happy to answer what I can but please remember I, like everyone else, have my own opinions. I would love however if people would aslo ask whatever other questions they may have to better understand what a nurse does.

    Speaking of the strike, I am a member of a union and I have been picketing and although I will speak about it again I just want to say a huge thank you to every person who has shown support over the past number of months :)

    Here we go.... :cool:


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭KevRossi


    We often hear about the over staffing in middle management in the HSE. Can you give some specific examples and how this affects you and your colleagues?

    FWIW I had a lot of experiences dealing with a sick parent a few years ago. He was often in hospital. I thought ye were almost all excellent, but overworked, and excessive administration that could be made more efficient.

    But I'd like to hear more about the issues that concern overstaffing in management.

    Thanks


  • Company Representative Posts: 71 Verified rep I'm a Nurse - AMA


    ectoraige wrote: »
    First, thanks for the work that you do, I understand how demoralising it is to be understaffed and still be expected to provide the best care for your patients.

    Is there any support for the idea of living-rate allowances so that nurses working in higher-cost places such as Dublin can be paid more than their country counterparts?

    Has anybody complained to you about being called "Pet"?

    Hi Ectoraige,

    First of all thank you for acknowledging how demoralising it is as you are completely correct. The burn out associated with not being able to provide best care to patient's causes massive strain on nurses, particularly when it is due to under-staffing.

    When I first went into nursing I remember being told that you got paid more for working in Dublin.... that was untrue! It works in London so I do think it is something that should be looked into and has been discussed throughout the years, however, Where do you draw the line considering the cost of living has increased everywhere over the past number of years. I have actually moved out of Dublin as I could not afford to rent there any longer. Despite commuting costs it still works out cheaper to rent in a commuter town that it would to rent a 1 bed in Dublin.

    I personally have never ever received a complaint for calling somebody pet or other pet names, however, I did work with a nurse who a formal complaint was made about because she used a pet name for a patient. Although I would have rarely used a pet name whilst looking after adults I find it difficult to not use pet names when caring for children :o I absolutely 100% agree that patient names should be used, never ever ever called by their bed/room number or other terms.
    What is your opinion on Simon Harris?

    I personally feel he is out of his depth. He is actually a nice man to be honest which makes me sad as I felt he was making a difference compared to previous ministers.
    vandriver wrote: »
    What's your basic pay,allowances and overtime.

    My basic pay, which is available online, works out at roughly 2,400 net/month. I do not work any overtime but it is the same hourly rate as usual when you do. We get paid unsociable hours between 1800-2000 and double pay for a Sunday. I do not receive any allowances at present. I did receive allowances previous jobs due to specialist areas.
    jay0109 wrote: »
    Are restrictive working practices and Union 'rules' in our hospitals stopping any real reform of the health sector?

    I am sorry but just to clarify, do you mean at present due to strike action?


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  • Company Representative Posts: 71 Verified rep I'm a Nurse - AMA


    Bummer1234 wrote: »
    Have you ever worked abroad or ever been tempted on going abroad?

    I have not worked abroad, I stayed in Ireland. However, I have considered it many times. I have been offered a job in both London and Dubai previously. I did not accept the job in London after qualification as I was offered a specialist ward in Ireland that I felt would be very beneficial to gain experience in.

    The Dubai job came about at the same time I received an offer to complete a course so I decided to stay and complete that instead.

    I am considering going though in the next year or 2 as at present myself and my partner are broke and cannot afford to save for a mortgage so I am considering leaving for financial reasons :o


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    Are you being paid while you are on strike.

    I


  • Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 21,502 Mod ✭✭✭✭Agent Smith


    Do you have a bedside locker? Whats in your bedside locker?

    How much is membership of your union a year?


  • Company Representative Posts: 71 Verified rep I'm a Nurse - AMA


    jay0109 wrote: »
    What are the main roster arrangements that you see amongst your colleagues and what are the %'s on each of them i.e. how many are on a 3 day week on long shifts

    The main roster arrangements I see are either 3 or 4 day weeks (I wonder how many people know we work an extra day every 4-6 weeks for free:mad:) and night duty which is either a week with mixed nights and days or 7 nights on either in a row or split with 7 nights off in the middle. Nursing managers and specialists mainly work Monday to Friday however, many managers also do weekends. More senior managers also do nights. If you work a 3 or 4 day week, it is generally a 13 hour shift. Nights are 12 hours.
    jay0109 wrote: »
    Do you know of any nurses who work full time for the HSE and also supplement that with agency nursing? How widespread is it?

    I personally don't know anyone who is employed by the HSE and an agency. I do however know many nurses who will do extra bank nurse shifts either in their own hospital or in a private hospital. I know one couple who did 4 bank shifts each a month. It worked out at approx 200 extra a month.... no chance i'd offer to do 4 extra shifts a month for 200.... but that is just me!! :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭Edward M


    I have not worked abroad, I stayed in Ireland. However, I have considered it many times. I have been offered a job in both London and Dubai previously. I did not accept the job in London after qualification as I was offered a specialist ward in Ireland that I felt would be very beneficial to gain experience in.

    The Dubai job came about at the same time I received an offer to complete a course so I decided to stay and complete that instead.

    I am considering going though in the next year or 2 as at present myself and my partner are broke and cannot afford to save for a mortgage so I am considering leaving for financial reasons :o

    Fair enough, I have a two nieces who are nurses, one is heading to dubai in April for the same reason you state.
    Do you think the percentage wage increase being sought would be enough to overcome that issue though, be enough to make a difference as to getting a mortgage for a house?


  • Company Representative Posts: 71 Verified rep I'm a Nurse - AMA


    seannash wrote: »
    I gather that the salary for Nurses is well documented and laid out for all to see.
    So seeing as you had prior knowledge of the earnings potential was that a factor in your decision to become a nurse or did you not consider it.
    My mother was a nurse and I know how difficult of a job it is and I agree that they are underpaid.

    I absolutely agree that it is very easy to see what a nurses salary is, however, at 18 when filling out my choices it is not something I ever would have considered looking into! I also qualified after cuts were made so even if I had of expected one wage I would have received less by the time I qualified. It is not something I can imagine many people looking into.... however, many students have asked me over the years and been shocked when I told them how much I got an hour leading me to believe that they assumed it would be more!
    Also thank you :)
    seannash wrote: »
    Also to add my personal belief is that nurses who move abroad were always going to move abroad. They move for the experience of living abroad or make a lot more money and I don't think a raise would change this. What would be your opinion on that subject.

    I do absolutely agree with you that many people have it in them that they want to travel, however, I think many nurses get to enjoy the amount of money/potential of climbing the ladder quicker abroad and then they don't come home. I personally know at least 15-20 people who have left for the middle east in the past 6 years who were only going for a year but still have not come home :eek:

    I personally am currently looking into moving abroad to get some money to buy a house at some stage so I do also think the money aspect to moving abroad is bigger than people know!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27 marthabarry


    How can you walk outside on strike when people with cancer and others with serious life threatening illness are forced to wait and have very serious operations and appointments being cancelled due to this strike? Don't you feel embarrassed by this ? or ashamed?


    Will you admit that if other staff - not nurses- did blood pressure rounds, etc. that many nurses would be freed up and there wouldn't be a shortage??? There are many roles that don't necessarily need a fully trained nurse?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 342 ✭✭VeryTerry


    Do you find it galling that after so long in college that the likes of the lads that spent the same amount of time in the Smurfit Business School think you should be happy working for a fraction of what they hope to make?

    Just to add, up the nurses!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Will you admit that if other staff - not nurses- did blood pressure rounds, etc. that many nurses would be freed up and there wouldn't be a shortage??? There are many roles that don't necessarily need a fully trained nurse?

    You should take your insightful knowledge and suggestions to the Labour court. The first part of your comment sounds strangely like emotional blackmail, your anger is directed at the wrong quarter tbh.


  • Company Representative Posts: 71 Verified rep I'm a Nurse - AMA


    jay0109 wrote: »
    Do you acknowledge that Irish nurses are amongst the most highly paid in the world? And that is even before allowing for the pension benefits.

    I acknowledge how it looks on paper but in reality with friends nursing across the world, who have also worked here, I don't feel that this is how it is in real life. I can move abroad tomorrow and have housing paid for, gym memberships, food allowances etc. The cost of living in Ireland is much higher than many places where nurses are paid less also. Cost of living in the UK is said to be 14% less than Ireland. Nurses in London, where the cost of living is higher receive more money for working/living there.

    Nurses in Ireland are also doing jobs that are done by extra health professionals in many countries. Nurses in Ireland carry out many tasks that are only done by doctors/allied health professionals in many other countries such as the UK, America and Australia.
    seannash wrote: »
    I think you'd have to include that Ireland is one of the most expensive places to live in the world (Think we are 15th most expensive) along with that statement

    ;)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,245 ✭✭✭myshirt


    VeryTerry wrote: »
    Do you find it galling that after so long in college that the lads that spent the same amount of time in the Smurfit Business School think you should be happy working for a fraction of what they hope to make?

    You'd max out at about 23k coming out of there if Dublin, and during 2007 to 2014 it was 15-18k in some places regionally. I hired a lot of them.

    These graduates would catch up in about year 7 or 8 after college, and start beating the nurses thereafter. However not all would get there, as if you are useless you are out the door now. There is serious cost competition and those who are not productive go. If they don't, the company goes eventually.

    With the nurses it's largely hospital politics and not merit that will drive their careers. Good for those that are not competent nurses, but bad for those that are.

    Nursing is a very good salary. 30k out of college, plus allowances and premium Sunday pay. Add the pension to that, while not Gilt edged anymore, you are still talking an overall package of 40k after your degree. For disclosure I'm an accountant and ran the DCF on this before. Great career money wise, but tough profession no doubt. I've great respect for them. On Goodwill and social utility I'd pay them much much more, but on a financial analysis I'd actually cut the wages. Hard raw facts couldn't justify it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    The main roster arrangements I see are either 3 or 4 day weeks (I wonder how many people know we work an extra day every 4-6 weeks for free:mad:) and night duty which is either a week with mixed nights and days or 7 nights on either in a row or split with 7 nights off in the middle. Nursing managers and specialists mainly work Monday to Friday however, many managers also do weekends. More senior managers also do nights. If you work a 3 or 4 day week, it is generally a 13 hour shift. Nights are 12 hours.



    I personally don't know anyone who is employed by the HSE and an agency. I do however know many nurses who will do extra bank nurse shifts either in their own hospital or in a private hospital. I know one couple who did 4 bank shifts each a month. It worked out at approx 200 extra a month.... no chance i'd offer to do 4 extra shifts a month for 200.... but that is just me!! :D

    I thought you were broke though.
    Would that be two hundred extra into your hand for doing four extra shifts a month. That would be a lot of money to someone earning ten euros an hour.

    How much are carers paid, do they do the toiletting work and the changing of soiled sheets etc. Will the nurses look for them to get extra money too, what union are the Carers in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭racso1975


    Why do ye all love Coppers so much???


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭hawkelady


    tretorn wrote: »
    I thought you were broke though.
    Would that be two hundred extra into your hand for doing four extra shifts a month. That would be a lot of money to someone earning ten euros an hour.

    How much are carers paid, do they do the toiletting work and the changing of soiled sheets etc. Will the nurses look for them to get extra money too, what union are the Carers in.

    You’d do 4 shifts for €200 .. ? One shift is 12 hrs ffs .... you would in your .......!!

    Op , fair play to you .. you deserve your rise and better conditions.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    VeryTerry wrote: »
    Do you find it galling that after so long in college that the likes of the lads that spent the same amount of time in the Smurfit Business School think you should be happy working for a fraction of what they hope to make?

    Just to add, up the nurses!

    If the lads in the Smurfit Business school can make millions for whever pays them then they will be handsomely rewarded. If they dont perform then they are out on their ear.

    In the PS it doesnt matter whether you work all the hours God sends, you will get the same pay as the dosser who is on the same grade as you unless you are promoted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    hawkelady wrote: »
    You’d do 4 shifts for €200 .. ? One shift is 12 hrs ffs .... you would in your .......!!

    Op , fair play to you .. you deserve your rise and better conditions.

    No one is going to come out with fifty euros per shift if its twelve hours long.

    I know a nurse who worked one Saturday and she got 120 euros extra on top of her normal pay.

    She said Im not working Saturdays again either for 120 euros extra. If someone is genuinely struggling they would take the opportunity to get a normal days pay plus 120 euros for over time.


  • Company Representative Posts: 71 Verified rep I'm a Nurse - AMA


    jimgoose wrote: »
    Nurses in Ireland enjoy a starting salary considerably greater than the average graduate salary. Salaries also increase relatively quickly, broadly in-line with other public sector roles to and well beyond the average industrial wage. It is true that salaries are much higher in Australia, but everything is much higher in Australia because of the huge boom there at the moment, largely because of the eye-watering amount of money the Chinese are printing.

    Bottom line: I put it to you that wage increases are the Wrong Thing(TM) and won't solve the actual problems of overwork and short-staffing.

    Hi Jimgoose,

    I think what is not considered when discussing nurses pay is what a nurse actually does. The responsibility a nurse has. I think comparing graduate salaries to those in the medical field may make it easier to understand why nurses are looking for pay parity.

    I do think that a pay increase will actually change the situation to a degree. Yes nurses will still choose to travel and go abroad but I feel they would come back and I also feel not as many would leave which would in turn assist in the short staffing. If there were adequate staff then nurses would not burn out or want to leave.

    The Oz thing is interesting, they may be in a boom right now but they were still offering more money when i qualified... :o
    jay0109 wrote: »
    Dublin is expensive, Sligo and Castlebar a lot less so.

    Sydney, Melbourne and London are right up there with Dublin but a lot of nurses heading that direction still.

    The thing about Dublin is there are more college places and larger teaching hospitals. People, like myself, will still choose to train in Dublin over places closer to home. It is also the same for the other cities mentioned. Greater experience in bigger hospitals. My friends in Sydney have stayed as they are on more money there and can still afford to live where as people like myself have moved out of Dublin due to the cost of living. Hospitals in London offer massive experience but friends that have worked there said that it was much like here salary wise however, despite high rents they felt that travel, food, drink and gyms were cheaper.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    Also what do your Physio Therapists colleagues and your Dietician colleagues think about you looking to be paid the same as them.

    Are they happy about you demanding parity.


  • Registered Users Posts: 41 AudiAvant


    One question I would love to know
    How do you shut your brain off after a hard day in work?
    I mean overthinking about how your day was?
    You must see things that live long in the memory


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,672 ✭✭✭seannash


    In terms of the pay abroad it seems that the countries listed are paying well above what they are paid in Ireland in most fields. It's not exclusive to nursing.
    Construction, hairdressing, managerial roles all paying very good salaries in comparison to Ireland so I think it's more of a case that everyone is paid more abroad not just nurses so in a way every industry is facing that wage fight.

    I do think the work is very tough in Ireland in comparison to others countries but my gf would be on a similar wage to yourself after spending the same amount of time in college. It's not a fantastic salary but it is a good wage for early 30s
    I guess the frustration might be that you can't control your wage by seeking a better job in Ireland. The rate is the rate and that's it where as others can move jobs and receive and increase in pay.


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