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Anti-vaxxers

13567…199

Comments

  • #62
    Academic
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Academic


    LirW wrote: »
    Well if I can avoid a disgusting infection and it's free, I gladly take it. I'd prefer a vaccine over the use of antibiotics really, which you need when you catch it.

    I hope that everyone understands that antibiotics have no effect on flu. Influenza is a virus.


  • #63
    LirW
    Registered Users Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭LirW


    Jaysus, my bad with the antibiotics, I'm in the middle of moving with my brain.
    I have to admit I missed many flu jabs (I think it was '09 or '10) but I caught it once and it was a very very nasty affair.
    Influenza is unfortunately a virus that mutates like crazy therefore if you get one jab in the beginning of the flu season it would be pointless at the end of it because you could easily catch another strain. You could permanently get shots, that's the only way to really be save but I see where medical professionals come from. It can be so horrible and cause some nasty aftermath.


  • #64
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    Academic wrote: »
    I hope that everyone understands that antibiotics have no effect on flu. Influenza is a virus.

    The people that think vaccines are bad often think they cause autism.

    Do you really think they know that influenza is a virus? :pac:


  • #65
    Hercule Poirot
    Registered Users Posts: 4,231 ✭✭✭Hercule Poirot


    20090325.jpg


  • #66
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,087 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    boneyarsebogman wrote: »
    The people that think vaccines are bad often think they cause autism.

    Do you really think they know that influenza is a virus? :pac:

    Tbf most people who shun all vaccines are probably of the 'colloidal silver cures everything' mindset and would also reject antibiotics in favour of the 'natural' option


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  • #67
    LirW
    Registered Users Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭LirW


    Honestly I love the people drinking bleach for detoxing their bodies even more. Work mate of my stepdad is one of them, absolute nutter.


  • #68
    Hercule Poirot
    Registered Users Posts: 4,231 ✭✭✭Hercule Poirot


    LirW wrote: »
    Honestly I love the people drinking bleach for detoxing their bodies even more. Work mate of my stepdad is one of them, absolute nutter.

    Remember that "drink your urine" craze from a while back?

    The problem is, and has been for quite a while, that people are taking advice from famous people who have zero medical background, i.e., Gwennie's macrobiotic diet, the urine drinking, etc. It's like: oh, if Beyonce does it it must be good! Utter crap the lot of it


  • #69
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,102 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Hercule Poirot wrote: »
    Remember that "drink your urine" craze from a while back?

    The problem is, and has been for quite a while, that people are taking advice from famous people who have zero medical background, i.e., Gwennie's macrobiotic diet, the urine drinking, etc. It's like: oh, if Beyonce does it it must be good! Utter crap the lot of it

    WHAT!! you mean it doesnt work???


  • #70
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    I thought we were pro choice, no?
    If an adult doesn't want a vaccination, that's fine. But for children I think we should assume that they don't want to risk blindness or death from measles or paralysis from Polio.
    xzanti wrote: »
    They appear to acknowledge that some are susceptible to allergic reaction. But how are we to know if we're going to have a "life threatening reaction" to a vaccine, if you've never had it before?

    I would akin it to handing out peanuts to a class full of kids, who've never had peanuts, without some sort of patch test first.
    That's why a GP will have you hang on in their office for a little while after being vaccinated; so that if you do have a reaction you're in the best place to get help.
    arayess wrote: »
    it is interesting how the consent is thrown out the window in this matter.
    I thought consent was an all important concept.

    how is forcing a vaccinate on somebody - injecting it into their body any different from other forms of bodily consent.

    I know...cos the boards elite says so...we all have freedom of choice once its the choice the mob agree with
    Because making a decision that just effects you is one thing. Making a decision that can kill or permanently injure another person is totally different. I didn't have chicken pox when I was a child (there was no vaccine then either), being infected with chicken pox from an unvaccinated child now, as an adult, could kill me. Never mind the fact that there's a reason we vaccinate: these diseases are not 'the sniffles', they can cause paralysis, brain damage, blindness, and death.
    ceadaoin. wrote: »
    My daughter is up to date on her vaccines. Her school did ask for a list from her doctor of everything she'd had but I don't know if she would have been denied entry to the school of I didn't provide it. something like the hpv one I would research more before allowing her to get it. It's relatively new and as far as I remember it has been associated with some negative side effects such as girls developing narcolepsy?
    According to the Narcolepsy Network, narcolepsy usually first manifests after the age of 10: roughly when girls would be getting the HPV vaccine. It is probably the same false correlation as people see with MMR and autism: it's not that the vaccine causes the disorder, it's that the disorder manifests around the time that the vaccine is administered.


  • #71
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    Any anti- vaxxer I've bothered listening to - "I did a lot a lot of research and I decided not to vaccinate them"

    Me - "You went to med school, got your degree, did your internship and qualified as a Doctor?"

    Them - "no, I checked it up on Google and blah blah blah"

    Me - "we'll change the topic"

    There is no point.


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  • #72
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    This is the person that some people relied on for medical decisions.
    http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/06/27/your-friday-dose-of-woo-generation-woo/


  • #73
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    It is bad enough that anti-vaxxers put their own children's health at risk, but putting other peoples children at risk is unforgivable.


  • #74
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users Posts: 40,102 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Ipso wrote: »
    This is the person that some people relied on for medical decisions.
    http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2008/06/27/your-friday-dose-of-woo-generation-woo/


    *blinks* wtf!


  • #75
    Outlaw Pete
    Registered Users Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    Some people want safe drinking water, free of pollutants, contaminants and toxins.

    They want the relevant science to be thorough in that regard also.

    Yet I've never heard such people being referred to as Anti-Water!


  • #76
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    Some people want safe drinking water, free of pollutants, contaminants and toxins.

    They want the relevant science to be thorough in that regard also.

    Yet I've never heard such people being referred to as Anti-Water!

    Anti homeopaths?


  • #77
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    Outlaw Pete wrote: »
    Some people want safe drinking water, free of pollutants, contaminants and toxins.

    They want the relevant science to be thorough in that regard also.

    Yet I've never heard such people being referred to as Anti-Water!

    If they refused to drink water then maybe they might!


  • #78
    Academic
    Registered Users Posts: 445 ✭✭Academic


    boneyarsebogman wrote: »
    The people that think vaccines are bad often think they cause autism.

    Do you really think they know that influenza is a virus? :pac:

    True. I should have said I hope everyone here knows. I'm just speaking to thread contributors, not the rest of the world. :)

    And of course every time a physician gives into a patient's demand for antibiotics they contribute to the creation of antibiotic resistant bacteria.


  • #79
    arayess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,707 ✭✭✭arayess


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Any anti- vaxxer I've bothered listening to - "I did a lot a lot of research and I decided not to vaccinate them"

    Me - "You went to med school, got your degree, did your internship and qualified as a Doctor?"

    Them - "no, I checked it up on Google and blah blah blah"

    Me - "we'll change the topic"

    There is no point.

    you do know that doctors themselves (as in the standard GP) have done sweet fa research on the topic.
    They just lash of the official medical guidelines , they may understand the topic better than the average punter but please don't claim they know whether a vaccine is safe any better than anybody else.


    It's kinda worrying that you think that....further worrying is your implication that the average person can;'t challenge medical opinion because they don't have the degree etc..
    medical opinion isn't infallible at all.


  • #80
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    In fairness doctors have contributed to anti-biotic resistance via the over prescription of antibiotics.


  • #81
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,065 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    In defence of GP's, they're all trained under a system which was designed for a time when people suffered and died from much simpler ailments such as industrial accidents, car crashes and heart attacks. Obviously these are still prevalent but the fact is that we're safer and will on the whole live much longer than our parents' generation. Disease demographics are undergoing a serious transition with personalised medicine like gene editing and immunotherapies on course to play ever increasing roles in treating diseases like Dementia, Cancer and Autoimmunity.

    Every year, there is more and more research done. That means more data which needs to be correctly generated and analysed and then published. It's frankly impossible for GP's to keep up to date with all this. There are market innovations on the way which should help like devices which monitor people's BP and such but the system means GP's start behind and simply fall further and further behind as time goes on.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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  • #82
    pc7
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 13,981 Mod ✭✭✭✭pc7


    My kids creche I had to supply their vaccine passports to show they were up to date. They wouldn't have taken them if they weren't.


  • #83
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    In defence of GP's, they're all trained under a system which was designed for a time when people suffered and died from much simpler ailments such as industrial accidents, car crashes and heart attacks. Obviously these are still prevalent but the fact is that we're safer and will on the whole live much longer than our parents' generation. Disease demographics are undergoing a serious transition with personalised medicine like gene editing and immunotherapies on course to play ever increasing roles in treating diseases like Dementia, Cancer and Autoimmunity.

    Every year, there is more and more research done. That means more data which needs to be correctly generated and analysed and then published. It's frankly impossible for GP's to keep up to date with all this. There are market innovations on the way which should help like devices which monitor people's BP and such but the system means GP's start behind and simply fall further and further behind as time goes on.

    In fairness A that was years ago. We know for a fact a large part of antibiotics are prescribed for the wrong bacteria. They should keep up with relevant science. It's not some cutting edge science that dictates how antibiotics are effective.


  • #84
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,065 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    In fairness A that was years ago. We know for a fact a large part of antibiotics are prescribed for the wrong bacteria. They should keep up with relevant science. It's not some cutting edge science that dictates how antibiotics are effective.

    If they're seeing patients all day, how are they supposed to find time to read and appraise papers. The logical answer is that the HSE should update its guidelines. I don't know why that hasn't happened.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • #85
    SpannerMonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 2,106 ✭✭✭SpannerMonkey


    Hercule Poirot wrote: »
    20090325.jpg

    tenor.gif


  • #86
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    arayess wrote: »
    you do know that doctors themselves (as in the standard GP) have done sweet fa research on the topic.
    They just lash of the official medical guidelines , they may understand the topic better than the average punter but please don't claim they know whether a vaccine is safe any better than anybody else.


    It's kinda worrying that you think that....further worrying is your implication that the average person can;'t challenge medical opinion because they don't have the degree etc..
    medical opinion isn't infallible at all.

    Ah come on, they are in a far better position to process and understand the information about the research and implications than the average Google expert.

    It's kinda worrying that you don't appreciate that. Further worrying is that you equate the abilities of both. Expertise acquire by Google with no ability to really understand the information is incredibly fallible.


  • #87
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 40,764 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Ah come on, they are in a far better position to process and understand the information about the research and implications than the average Google expert.

    It's kinda worrying that you don't appreciate that. Further worrying is that you equate the abilities of both. Expertise acquire by Google with no ability to really understand the information is incredibly fallible.

    Not even that but google gives you all the conspiracy thory crap and doesnt weed out the actual scientific data

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #88
    mezzz
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 119 ✭✭mezzz


    i was anti-vaxxer myself,

    but when my daughter was born i decided to trust the hospital,
    worked out well so far but if knew then what i know now i would have stuck with anti-vax


  • #89
    LirW
    Registered Users Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭LirW


    mezzz wrote: »
    i was anti-vaxxer myself,

    but when my daughter was born i decided to trust the hospital,
    worked out well so far but if knew then what i know now i would have stuck with anti-vax

    What do you know now?


  • #90
    Mena
    Registered Users Posts: 3,180 ✭✭✭Mena


    mezzz wrote: »
    i was anti-vaxxer myself,

    but when my daughter was born i decided to trust the hospital,
    worked out well so far but if knew then what i know now i would have stuck with anti-vax

    I'd say your daughter will be eternally greatful you had a, albeit brief, moment of lucidity.


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  • #91
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    If they're seeing patients all day, how are they supposed to find time to read and appraise papers. The logical answer is that the HSE should update its guidelines. I don't know why that hasn't happened.

    It's not a matter of reading papers. There's certainly medics who knowingly prescribe useless antibiotics.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/11042482/Nearly-half-of-GPs-admit-prescribing-useless-antibiotics.html


This discussion has been closed.
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