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Uber

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  • Registered Users Posts: 36,023 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    P_1 wrote: »
    Trouble is for lack of a better description, theres a negative bias against a certain cohort of taxi drivers. For example I'd rather walk than take a taxi from the rank at the likes of oconnoll street.

    Furthermore we're almost back in the bad old days in terms of supply on a Friday or Saturday evening.

    Now the choices to resolve that are either increased public transport at night or increasing the supply of drivers.

    I've used uber in the UK, its handy, you can see where your taxi is and you don't need to mess about with cash. Try asking your average Dublin taxi driver if they take card and they'd look at you as if you have 2 heads

    We have Uber and MyTaxi, so all of the tech benefits are available to Irish people using taxis.

    The only aspect we don’t have is the ridesharing / gig economy aspect. And - no matter what people want - we will never have the free for all in those respects that exist elsewhere due to robust employee protections.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    We have Uber and MyTaxi, so all of the tech benefits are available to Irish people using taxis.

    The only aspect we don’t have is the ridesharing / gig economy aspect. And - no matter what people want - we will never have the free for all in those respects that exist elsewhere due to robust employee protections.

    I agree with you on that. However we need to get drivers actually using the tech benefits. Imo having the ability to accept a card should be part of the requirements to have a taxi licence. Arguably so should the GPS tracking element


  • Registered Users Posts: 36,023 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    P_1 wrote: »
    I agree with you on that. However we need to get drivers actually using the tech benefits. Imo having the ability to accept a card should be part of the requirements to have a taxi licence. Arguably so should the GPS tracking element

    The vast majority of taxis in urban areas use mytaxi / Uber which makes payment by cards possible, and GPS tracking available by default. The tech benefits are here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    The vast majority of taxis in urban areas use mytaxi / Uber which makes payment by cards possible, and GPS tracking available by default. The tech benefits are here.

    But they don't use them. Frequently taxi drivers put the aps on mute at busy times and more often than not when one feels gracious enough to stop when you flag one down you're greeted with a "cash only pal"


  • Registered Users Posts: 36,023 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    P_1 wrote: »
    But they don't use them. Frequently taxi drivers put the aps on mute at busy times and more often than not when one feels gracious enough to stop when you flag one down you're greeted with a "cash only pal"

    I haven’t had those experiences, and I was an early user of Hailo. I never use cash in Dublin for taxis anymore, and use them constantly.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    I haven’t had those experiences, and I was an early user of Hailo. I never use cash in Dublin for taxis anymore, and use them constantly.

    Ah it's only really become noticeable in the last few months since the Boom is back.

    Taxi drivers think we have short memories


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    I haven’t had those experiences, and I was an early user of Hailo. I never use cash in Dublin for taxis anymore, and use them constantly.

    I get it very regularly when I take taxis. On countless occasions (particularly busy days/evenings), taxis refuse to take card or payment through one of the apps. This often necessitates annoying stops at ATMs to take out money.

    I've had this issue before when trying to expense taxis home from Dublin airport for work, when a card payment makes the whole process a lot easier and doesn't result in me having to cover work expenses with my own cash.

    I've no problem with prohibiting gig economy approach to taxis, but the NTA need to insist on taxis being able to take card or payment through an app. It's a basic standard and not hard to do.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,276 ✭✭✭✭fullstop





    Not paid cash for a taxi in a few years, many/most take cards now.

    Not true. I often try to get a taxi to pay by card when landing at Dublin airport and often have to wait until 15 or 20 have passed through before they can find one that takes cards. And MyTaxi is not the same thing, if that’s what you were referring to. It’s also a **** app.


  • Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭Rotweiler


    Can we not be a UBER driver without a taxi licence in Dublin now?


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,098 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    No. Not ever I'd imagine


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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Rotweiler wrote: »
    Can we not be a UBER driver without a taxi licence in Dublin now?

    Sadly not now or ever. The rickshaws are the only ones 'allowed' move you around dublin with no licence.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,897 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    fullstop wrote: »
    Not true. I often try to get a taxi to pay by card when landing at Dublin airport and often have to wait until 15 or 20 have passed through before they can find one that takes cards. And MyTaxi is not the same thing, if that’s what you were referring to. It’s also a **** app.

    I thought that ALL taxis are supposed to take cards at the airport now, certainly when I was inquiring about an airport permit that was one of the conditions I had to fulfill


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,997 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i came through the airport last night.
    there's a sign up at the top of the taxi rank saying that if you intend to pay by card, to inform one of the DAA staff manning the rank.

    it's embarrassing to think that would be the first experience of many visitors, of an everyday irish service.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,682 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    Uber style scheme would put users at risk of MURDER!!

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/uber-style-scheme-would-put-users-at-risk-of-murder-907639.html

    Yeap, no scaremongering here from the The National Private Hire Taxi Association (NPHTA).
    As a nation, we are a joke sometimes with this overly emotional outlook.

    Ironically, it is well known that in Dublin criminal gangs owned and operated many Taxies as a front for money laundering and extortion. Not only that but many an ex-criminal drive taxis.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,664 ✭✭✭makeorbrake


    markodaly wrote: »
    Uber style scheme would put users at risk of MURDER!!
    What a very progressive line for them to take!

    In recent weeks, I've moved from using Uber to INdriver. INdriver puts a different twist on car pooling - with customers having the ability to offer an amount for a fare. The drivers come back in real time and either match that price or counter-offer. It's a very interesting approach and one that's going to disrupt the disrupter.

    Whilst I love the innovation that Uber has brought, their market dominance is letting them get away with murder (the only murder that's involved here!). Here, they're taking up to 30% from the driver. I don't think its reasonable for this to go above 20%.

    With INdriver, I'm getting better fares - whilst the driver is getting a better deal also. Furthermore, I get to see what car the driver has and can select a car on that basis.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,142 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    I was away for a while working, arrived in the airport at my destination, downloaded the app and set up my account there and then. It was brilliant and used it a few times daily. Not all cars were the latest and greatest but they were all clean and comfortable, most had the likes of wet wipes/tissues etc for you to use, as well as a variety of charging cables to plug into. This was in America in fairness where they have a different take on the service industry which I don't think will translate as well over there, but it's a good model.

    I was a regular user of Hailo before the rebranding and it turned to ****e.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,897 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    What a very progressive line for them to take!

    In recent weeks, I've moved from using Uber to INdriver. INdriver puts a different twist on car pooling - with customers having the ability to offer an amount for a fare. The drivers come back in real time and either match that price or counter-offer. It's a very interesting approach and one that's going to disrupt the disrupter.

    Whilst I love the innovation that Uber has brought, their market dominance is letting them get away with murder (the only murder that's involved here!). Here, they're taking up to 30% from the driver. I don't think its reasonable for this to go above 20%.

    With INdriver, I'm getting better fares - whilst the driver is getting a better deal also. Furthermore, I get to see what car the driver has and can select a car on that basis.

    Doesn't seem to be downloadable in Ireland, probably because of Ireland's metered fare policy, you pay only up to the maximum metered fare, if you bid and offer a lower than metered fare you must still run the meter and charge the agreed fare.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,664 ✭✭✭makeorbrake


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Doesn't seem to be downloadable in Ireland, probably because of Ireland's metered fare policy, you pay only up to the maximum metered fare, if you bid and offer a lower than metered fare you must still run the meter and charge the agreed fare.
    Sorry, should have clarified - I'm using this overseas. It's available for use in 18 countries.

    The difference I'm finding with inDriver is that there's more likely to be drivers that just switch it on as they happen to be driving a certain direction. A few of them have confirmed as much to me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    I used Uber extensively in the US in 2016 but in the intervening years Lyft had arrived and I found that in some cities by 2018 Lyft cars outnumbered Uber 4 to 1. So it doesn't really have a monopoly.

    I've used it extensively in NI and Britain too. As mentioned above it can be a lot easier to get an Uber than a taxi, e.g. outside Manchester Piccadilly there can be long queues for taxis. Obviously there is no queue for Uber. Cheaper too.

    Are Hackney licences still a thing? They seem to be available from doing a quick google, but I haven't seen one in years. I'd have thought they'd be compatible with UberX.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,664 ✭✭✭makeorbrake


    n97 mini wrote: »
    I used Uber extensively in the US in 2016 but in the intervening years Lyft had arrived and I found that in some cities by 2018 Lyft cars outnumbered Uber 4 to 1. So it doesn't really have a monopoly.

    I get your point but I guess it depends on the market you're in. Where I'm located these days, there's no competition...but inDriver is making ground up fast...i have not used anything else since I found it. Uber takes 30% off drivers here and also plays games on the customer end with their algorithm. I really love the innovation but I never like to see anyone market dominant and gouging.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,894 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    n97 mini wrote: »
    I used Uber extensively in the US in 2016 but in the intervening years Lyft had arrived and I found that in some cities by 2018 Lyft cars outnumbered Uber 4 to 1. So it doesn't really have a monopoly.

    I've used it extensively in NI and Britain too. As mentioned above it can be a lot easier to get an Uber than a taxi, e.g. outside Manchester Piccadilly there can be long queues for taxis. Obviously there is no queue for Uber. Cheaper too.

    Are Hackney licences still a thing? They seem to be available from doing a quick google, but I haven't seen one in years. I'd have thought they'd be compatible with UberX.

    There ares still Hackney's, yes. Rare in the cities and older metered areas as taxi plates were generally available and better for work and what passengers were used to seeing, more common in taxi-less towns and in rural areas.

    Hackneys can use ÜberX in Ireland but they and their drivers still need to be licensed as per Irish Laws and adhere to agreed fares when booked or hired.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    There ares still Hackney's, yes. Rare in the cities and older metered areas as taxi plates were generally available and better for work and what passengers were used to seeing, more common in taxi-less towns and in rural areas.

    Hackneys can use ÜberX in Ireland but they and their drivers still need to be licensed as per Irish Laws and adhere to agreed fares when booked or hired.

    So the fares could be based on what UberX estimates. That's curious. Why are the likes of Clare Co Council considering introducing and "Uber like" system when it sounds like Uber+hackneys could fill that gap.
    https://drcd.gov.ie/rural-uber-type-car-pooling-app-shows-that-clare-is-thinking-ahead-minister-ring/

    I've several rural based friends who had hackneys years ago, but now there are none. Indeed where I live in Leixlip, about 15 years ago there were three cab companies, predominantly served by hackneys. Now there's only one firm and the drivers are all taxis.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,894 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    n97 mini wrote: »
    So the fares could be based on what UberX estimates. That's curious. Why are the likes of Clare Co Council considering introducing and "Uber like" system when it sounds like Uber+hackneys could fill that gap.
    https://drcd.gov.ie/rural-uber-type-car-pooling-app-shows-that-clare-is-thinking-ahead-minister-ring/

    I've several rural based friends who had hackneys years ago, but now there are none. Indeed where I live in Leixlip, about 15 years ago there were three cab companies, predominantly served by hackneys. Now there's only one firm and the drivers are all taxis.

    Over time many hackney plate owners moved towards using taxi's for the benefit of working from a street or rank. Others got out of the business over the last decade when insurance quotes skyrocketed and cab regulations tightened up. There are places in Ireland where hackneys dominate the cab market. Often they run as 8 seater cabs or mini buses with passengers sharing the fare for a longer run, with booking taken by phone or word of mouth instead of a central despatch.

    There is a scheme for limited local hackney licences in place; perhaps this is what you have heard off in Clare?

    There is nothing to stop Uber from running a hackney service itself in Ireland once it is registered as a Despatch Operator and the cabs are licensed Hackney or Limo's and driven by licensed drivers. Bar a shortage of hackneys, that is.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,295 ✭✭✭n97 mini


    The rural licences, even though cheaper, have been a failure. Only 14 in the whole country as of mid 2016 according to the IT. Probably even less now as 18 licences were originally issued.

    I wonder what's stopping Uber registering as a dispatch operator.

    The Clare Uber thing is newer. Check the link in my post above.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,894 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    n97 mini wrote: »
    The rural licences, even though cheaper, have been a failure. Only 14 in the whole country as of mid 2016 according to the IT. Probably even less now as 18 licences were originally issued.

    I wonder what's stopping Uber registering as a dispatch operator.

    The Clare Uber thing is newer. Check the link in my post above.

    Uber are registered as a Dispatch Operator.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,997 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    interesting analysis give that uber's IPO didn't go as well as they'd hoped. note - this is from about half a year ago.

    https://twitter.com/juliangough/status/1052255901854429186


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,997 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Uber’s Path of Destruction

    https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2019/05/ubers-path-of-destruction/
    In reality, Uber’s platform does not include any technological breakthroughs, and Uber has done nothing to “disrupt” the eco­nomics of providing urban car services. What Uber has disrupted is the idea that competitive consumer and capital markets will maximize overall economic welfare by rewarding companies with superior efficiency. Its multibillion dollar subsidies completely distorted marketplace price and service signals, leading to a massive misallocation of resources. Uber’s most important innovation has been to produce staggering levels of private wealth without creating any sustainable benefits for consumers, workers, the cities they serve, or anyone else.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,664 ✭✭✭makeorbrake



    I don't agree with the suggestion that they have not disrupted. For many, the default option is to hail via app now. Yes, this aspect of things has been duplicated but they led with it.

    On the gig economy, I've seen many instances where people are empowered to go out and work for a few hours here or there as suits their needs....(not in ireland of course). I like the idea that someone can decide to simply switch on the app and work if they need to supplement income, etc.

    It should also be noted that this makes for a far more progressive economy.


    I'd imagine the law of unintended consequences also applies - i.e. that many around the world are utilising uber from the driver side on a full time basis. But that's also a failure of regulation.

    Despite them having led with this innovative approach, I'm not their biggest fan either. It's the age old problem - those that are market dominant abuse that position. That's why I use InDriver constantly for the past number of months.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,005 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    On the gig economy, I've seen many instances where people are empowered to go out and work for a few hours here or there as suits their needs....(not in ireland of course). I like the idea that someone can decide to simply switch on the app and work if they need to supplement income, etc.

    It should also be noted that this makes for a far more progressive economy.
    Except for the bit about how this completely undermines the industry, and the work that has gone on over the past decade or so to improve standards by ensuring that drivers are trained and meet required standards. It also undermines the work that has gone on to make sure taxi services are usable by everybody, including wheelchair users, people with guide dogs and assistance dogs and more.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,664 ✭✭✭makeorbrake


    Except for the bit about how this completely undermines the industry.
    I use "disrupt" rather than "undermine" - but if you've got skin in the game, I can see how you may be aggrieved.

    and the work that has gone on over the past decade or so to improve standards by ensuring that drivers are trained and meet required standards.
    If 'training' is to such a high standard, then why are people not accessing taxi services? Do you mean the training to talk absolute ****e for the duration of the trip?
    make sure taxi services are usable by everybody, including wheelchair users, people with guide dogs and assistance dogs and more.
    Is every single taxi wheelchair accessible?

    I get it but in today's world, industries are being constantly disrupted. Upskill/retrain and move on.


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