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Collapsed Lung and flying.

  • 29-01-2003 7:57pm
    #1
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    Before christmas i suffered from 2 spontaneous pneumothoraxes (collapsed lungs). Was admitted to hospital had 2 chest drains inserted and lung finally came back up. I know a few people here have had similar experiences with their lungs.
    I have booked a holiday in june to greece and am kinda worried about flying. The change in pressure when the aircraft cabin pressurises can cause a instand reoccurance of a collapsed lung which can be fatal at 30,000 feet.
    Has anybody else flown after having a collapsed lung and had any problems. I am meeting with some cardio thoracic surgeons on friday so would like to brush up on the subject.
    Have already tried www.pneumothorax.org but got no real joy.
    Thanks in advance
    Chief.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 35,523 ✭✭✭✭Gordon


    http://www.ecureme.com/emyhealth/data/Collapsed_Lung.asp
    is a link if you like.

    Hope you make it on holiday.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,263 ✭✭✭Caesar_Bojangle


    A fellow sufferer here, i've had three in the last year. I had one in february, told me to avoid flying for three months, which i did. Went away in august and to be brutally honest i could kind of feel my lung give a slight reminder of that stabby feeling, which you should be all to aware of. Other than that the journey was fine which accumulated to about 10hrs flying time in total.

    But i had another relapse in early november, dont know if it was at all connected to my flying in august. Best bet would be to advise the airline prior to the journey in case you need oxygen whilst on board.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭Turner


    Oxygen and a needle for somebody to stab through my ribs and let the air out.
    Getting more worried as the days go on.

    Caeser how was your experience in hospital. Mine was something i'd like to forget.

    Was admitted to St Vincents with a sore chest, right around the area my heart is, so immediately tohught i was having a heart attack. Saw the triage nurse and was told to take a seat :O . 5 hours later i finally see a doctor who says by not even examining me that i have a collsaped lung. He could tell by the way i was walking. Slanted to one side. He was shocked that I had been sitting in the waiting room for 5 hours with a collapsed lung. Had an emergency chest tube inserted between my ribs and could feel relief almost instantly. Was given morphine while they inserted the tube so cant really remember much. Woke up in a ward in the worst pain ive ever experienced. Was on injection pain killers for about a week. The chest drain that was inserted was bubbling away nicely as the lung inflated slowly. Was discharged after about a week with the lung 95% inflated.
    to cut a long story short i was admitted a week later with a 30% collapse of the same lung, same thing emergency chest tube inserted through my ribs (same hole from last week) and woke up in a ward. All was going well until one morning I was leaning up in bed and the chest tube fell out. So basically i had a hole going from my ribs straight through muscle/fat/lung cavity. Like having an open stabwound. Every breath i took my was a traumatic experience, to breath and nothing to happen was very frightening. My blood oxygen dropped to 84% and heart rate doubled to 149. Eventually i was sedated with hypnoville (similar to date rape drug afaik) and tube was re-inserted.
    2 months later and all is going well although i am at high risk of having another. Especially whilest flying or scuba diving.
    No real cause except it happens to tall thin men between the age of 20 and 40 who smoke.
    Chief.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭Lex_Diamonds


    Jaysus, sounds nasty Chief.
    Ive had two in my life. Had one that I went into hospital for a week after it happened. They kept me in over night but let me leave the next day cos it was reinflating itself.

    Seven months later, I had another one. Wasnt arsed going to the hospital cos id do anything not to stay in hospital. Was in pain for a while but it fixed itself like the last. I figure that if my heart rate and breathing is stable, I dont need to admit myself.

    Now its been a year or more since my last one. Every time I fly im ****tin myself to be honest. Also, I lie to people who want to know if I have medical history cos they wont let you do anything if there is this possibility that you could have a collapse at any time (they want to cover their asses).

    BTW, I have never smoked in my life so it can happen to anyone. Its a horrible thing to have cos you always have it hanging over you, I have heard of people who still suffer from them even after corrective surgery.

    The god damn worst thing would be for it to happen while on holiday, can you imagine that, stuck in a foreign countries hospital for three months. :-/


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,469 ✭✭✭Mr_Roger_Bongos


    What caused your callapsed lungs anyway?

    I saw it on 3 kings, where your man has a needle in his chest and he has to keep releasing the air!

    Sounds pretty damn painful!


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭Turner


    It can be caused by what you saw on 3 kings by yer mano being shot. I can alos happed if air escaped from your lungs into your plural cavity.

    Got this from bbc world service online.
    In 1995 a Scottish doctor made aviation history during a flight from Hong Kong to London. Professor Angus Wallace saved, fellow passenger, Paula Dixon’s life by improvising with a metal coathanger, a bottle of water, oxygen mask and a bottle of brandy.

    When Wallace realised that Dixon had suffered a collapsed lung, which was due to an earlier motorbike accident, he used a scalpel and anaesthetic from the planes, medical kit and sterilised a coat hanger in brandy before operating and releasing pressure from the chest.

    Later that year Wallace received the Weigelt-Wallace award for ‘extraordinary dedication and sacrifice on behalf of medicine and mankind.’


  • Registered Users Posts: 35,523 ✭✭✭✭Gordon


    Chief - are you 20-40, thin and do you smoke?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,997 ✭✭✭The_Bullman


    Yeah, I remember seeing that on 999 emergency or suchlike. Pretty amazing stuff really


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭Turner


    20-40 ? -yes 22.
    thin ? - yes (I like to call it lean)
    smoke ? -never again (have smoked since i was 15)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,956 ✭✭✭layke


    tbh Chief I would ask your GP.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭Turner


    I have a meeting with some thoracic surgeons on friday so will ask all the questions then.
    Cheers for all the replies


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭Lex_Diamonds


    Yeah give us a shout with any useful info you pick up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭spod


    Had collapsed lung as a side effect of other stuff when I was 14 or 15. No relapses, in fact until reading this I wasn't aware they happened, now I'm paranoid about it.

    Anyway, I've flown a good bit since with no hassle, except a slightly funny feeling once during take off and climbing to crusing height (I had just gotten over a chest infection though which could have caused it), but to be honest the popping in my ears was more annoying.

    Anyway, good luck and I'll have to agree with everyone who said just how much they suck and how painful and uncomfortable the are.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭Turner


    Surgery in 2-3 weeks, keyhole jobby then all should be fixed.
    Chief.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,263 ✭✭✭Caesar_Bojangle


    Anyone else notice if you lie on one side in bed at night, you are slightly out of breath in the morning?

    Hospital = piss take, i'm told to come back every month or so, rest rest rest, think i'll be having the surgery too as its a persistent bastard. Apparently they see these cases four or five times a week in our particular stature, i.e tall lanky males.

    The first time it happened i swore i was having a heart attack, my whole body ached from my chest down, couldnt actually get out of bed for five hours and to make matters worse i was all alone, i kind of guessed something was up when i could hear my chest gurgle like your stomach does when you are completely famished.

    As lex mentioned it kind of puts you in the gutter as there is some stuff i'd love to do which i'm currently unable to do for fear of a reoccurrence. Bad lung bad lung


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭Turner


    Go to hospital = key hole surgery = 3 days in bed in hospital = 2 weeks in bed at home = cured for life.

    I am in 2 or 3 weeks. Will let you know how it went.


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭spod


    It was keyhole surgery I had as well. Woke up in agony with a morphine pump around my neck which I heavily abused the self medicating button on, but after a few days it wasn't so bad.

    Actually, it was alot less traumatic then when I had the first chest drain inserted. I was lying on a trolley in ICU being held down by a 300lb west cork nun who to this day I swear was a wrestler by night, with a small bit of local applied to my chest, but not enough. I could still feel some pain, just no sharp stabbing pain, when they cut in through the muscle and crap to insert the drain. To this day nothing compares to feeling and hearing my chest wall, the flesh and muscle etc., being torn apart by a surgeon and having a 1" tube being poked in and seeing this yellowy goop draining out into a big bell jar.

    Shudder.

    Compared to that the keyhole was a bit more painful but really a walk in the park in comparison.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭Turner


    Yes my highlights were

    (1) Morphine, --->>> On a bed trolley on the way to the ward and saying "Doctor this taxi is goin too slow, im getting out and flying"

    (2) Hypnoville, --->> kinda like the daterape drug rohypnol, As the radiographer was x-raying me I was appologising to all present for being so drunk in a hospital. (it was the effect of the drug), could not remember anything of this the next day, heard it all off nurses/doctors that were present. IVE B33n DAT3Rap3d!!!

    (3) Looking as stiches were inserted (under local anaestethic, (lydacane) ) was kinda freaky.

    One memory was the doctor trying to shove the tube between my ribs and nearly pushing me off the trolly, also while she did make the hole betwnne my ribs, sticking her finger in while she prepared the chest tube.

    Any males tall and thin between the ages of 20-40 stop smoking now and put on some weight.

    Dont have the experience of a spontaneous pneumothorax.

    Chief.


  • Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭spod


    (1) Morphine, --->>> On a bed trolley on the way to the ward and saying "Doctor this taxi is goin too slow, im getting out and flying"

    I think my favourite morphine highlights were:

    1) Giving out to visitors for visiting me because they had visited me earlier that day and brought me oompa loompas or something, at least I was convinced they had.

    2) Freaking out and screaming at nurses because of the giant evil green nurse who tried to inject me with a 3ft long needle earlier.

    ah, the memories, or rather fuzzy lack of them.

    On the chest drain insertion I'll never forget the sound of my chest wall being ripped apart with sharp scalpels and the sickening woosh just before the tube was inserted. Shudder.

    I too heartily recommend avoiding a collapsed lung if at all possible.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭The Clown Man


    OK, I haven't had a collaped lung yet but I'm in the same catogory as chief here. I will admit to fainting when I saw the blood and water gurgling out of him. A horrible sight I'll tell you. And him telling me exactly what was going on inside that tube didn't help. I warned you chief!

    Anyway, after the keyhole surgery and all is well I will be the one sheeting the brick getting on the plane to go to Crete. Cheers Chief. I'll buy you a drink when I make it alive. :(

    But seriously, I will not preach but I'll tell any smokers under the age of 16 to give it up. Especially if you are tall and thin. I am glad I have never gone through a collaped lung but I will make sure I quit before I do. It is a scary experience for everyone else nevermind you yourself. Don't do it. Seriously. Not worth it. Trust me.

    Anyway, Ill be carrying a coathanger onboard just for you Chief and a bottle of brandy just for me if I'm going to do anything! Sterilisation my ass!

    Anyway, I'm not going to discourage advise so please keep it coming. It all helps settle the mind. Advise for a guy with a coathanger in a plane with a best mate having a spontaneous pneumothorax would be nice too! :p


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,196 ✭✭✭Tazz T


    That sounds horrible. I wish you the best of luck Chef with the op.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭Lex_Diamonds


    Just dont think about it too much. If its gonna happen its gonna happen.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,263 ✭✭✭Caesar_Bojangle


    I’m resurrecting an old thread as i couldn’t be arsed to make a new one, and this one seems kind of related.

    It's long but if you love me, you'd read it in its entirety.

    The last time my lung collapsed was November, some 6 months back. I was advised to steer clear of anything that would cause heavy exertion for a few months.

    Before i had my first of three spontaneous pneumothoraxes in December of 2001(i think it was), i was an ardent fitness freak. I went to the gym 3 or 4 times a week, played football all of which i was forced to give up due to the three collapses, or for fear of another collapse.

    Now skip forward to the present, i want to get back to the gym, perhaps even play football again and put back on the two stone of muscle i've lost since. But i have a fear once i start running on the treadmill, even lifting a fraction of the weight i used to lift, it'll be enough to cause it to go down again. Ultimately screwing me up for the whole summer before i start college, i.e. rendering me unable to work, go out or on a holiday to Amsterdam with the mates to celebrate leaving cert results.

    I have reasons to suspect this. Now and again, say if i have to run to catch the bus. My chest would feel like its not completely right and would take a few minutes to settle afterwards, even though i ran for a mere 15 seconds. Bear in mind before all this happened i could outpace Thierry Henry on speed, and probably for longer too. I get the odd sensation in my back and chest out of the blue, but the doctors and x-rays say its fully healed and inflated.

    Last summer i went back to the gym for a day. I did 10% of what i'd normally have done in my heyday, but felt like a morbidly obese man of 90 trying to walk up the stairs with stark pains in my chest and a thumping lung. So i just gave up and went home, even though i was told by the doctors i should be fully able to go, then 4 months later my long collapsed for the third time. Since last November i've done no fitness or even put exertion on my chest in anyway. But i still manage to get those minute peculiar feelings in my chest regardless of how healthy the doctors say i am.

    So basically all i want to know, to any of the guys who have had a collapsed long at sometime in their lifetime. How do you fair now? Like do you get the odd pain? Are you able to carry out a thorough fitness routine now?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,468 ✭✭✭Lex_Diamonds


    The worst thing about sp. pneumothoraxes is that there seems to be little consensus in the medical community about effective advice/treatment. Its a condition that quite a few people suffer from yet it isn't studied in any progressive way.

    For example, you could get an operation to "fix" your collapses, but several people have reported that they come back after such an operation, and i've heard of people suffering nerve damage as a result of the various invasive procedures designed to treat the condition.

    There are a number of possible treatments available, id go to www.pneumothorax.org and take time out to read the site (especially the forums), its very educational. It may help with any decisions you take regarding the problem.

    Speaking for myself, i found the anxiety relating to the condition a huge contributing factor towards my physical symptoms. Once I forgot about this illness which strikes randomly anyway, I found the pain/perceived shortness of breath disappeared. However, that could just be me. Everyone is different.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,099 ✭✭✭✭WhiteWashMan


    guys, its all well and good swapping horror stories, but for your own peace of mind, and so that boards.ie is not at fault here, ask your doctor.
    just because someone elses docter said they could fly after 3 months does not mean that you can. you may have slightly different problems, i dont know, im not a doctor. :)

    ask you GP.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭Turner


    WWM Generally gp's know very little about collapsed lungs. They will know what it is and how it should be treated, but if you really want to know about them you need to talk to a casualty doctor or surgeon.

    Ceaser, I had 4 or 5 cases of a collapsed lung and eventually underwent an open pleurectomy in St Vincents. That was in feb and since then I havent really tried any major exercise or weights. Although I am perfectly able to do them its the anxiety of triggering another collapse is the problem. I will soon have to pass a physical competence test for a job so i will eventually havce to start again.

    The operation I had is to scar the lung from top to bottom so it sticks to the inside of your abdomen. When my doctor was removing one of the chest tubes alot of air went inside my chest which normally would have caused a massive collapse, but because the lung was stuck it collapsed by only about half an inch. It was gladly "Stuck".

    I would say start doing whatever you want to do as regards the gym/running. If your lung collapses again im sure your doctor will refer you to some cardio thoracic surgeons. The operation is quite effective and you get some super drugs too while in hospital. (morphine/pethadine/hypnovill)

    Any other questions about the op feel free to ask or pm me.

    Chief.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,099 ✭✭✭✭WhiteWashMan


    dont get me wrong, feel free to discuss, just make sure that the advice you take, is that from someone who knows. as you say in this case its a surgeon or an ER doc.

    my only point was that no matter how similar cases may appear here, i dont think its wise to look to anyones experience in cases like this (well, life and death tbh) as a guide line to whether or not you can fly etc.

    hell, i hope yoiu get fit enough to fly to the other side of the planet, but i wont stop you posting unfortunately ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,263 ✭✭✭Caesar_Bojangle


    Chief and Lex thanks for your opinions(not that of boards, WWM;) )

    WWM, to put your mind at ease. I'm not looking for advice on how to carry out the operation on myself. I was just wondering whether anybody who has had a collapsed lung are at the same level of health/fitness that they were at before it all occured, and can they carry out normal duties without the constant annoyance of hospital visits more so than the actual fear of another relapse.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 565 ✭✭✭commuterised


    I read this thread yesterday and found it fascinating, but then last night I dreamt I had a collapsed lung. very vivid.
    Good luck to you all with your surgery, and good health!


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭Turner


    It rarely happens to females.

    Normally its tall thin men who smoke. Also it happens to alot of rugby/American football players. If they run into somebody while holding their breath, it can cause a massive collapse.

    CHief.


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