I've Joined a Cult

JC 3.14159 · 11-07-2013 8:47am

I'm another paleo fan/cyclist. I started with a 30-day blitz, as recommended by most paleo books and websites.

It's worth a try. I found that it completely changed how I felt about food. For example, previously dinner might have been a pile of noodles or pasta or rice with some chicken and some veg. Nutritionally, the white carb stuff adds nothing to the meal. A better alternative is to double the amount of chicken and fill the plate with veggies. You might think that you'd miss the noodles, but why? They don't taste like anything, and the texture is horrible and gluey (I only noticed this when I tried them after the 30 days). You can cut way back on seasoning or sauces too because all the ingredients have a taste already. Ok, the dinner costs abit more, but if you're gonna spend on anything, food is one place that's worth it. If you accept the 'animal fat is good' argument (I do) then you can buy the cheaper cuts that other people are scared of. A slow cooker is a big help toi.

An added bonus with paleo is that you become instantly immune to all food marketing/food pyramid nonsense. Danone Actimel, piss off! You only need to visit 2 sections of the supermarket.

Lumen · 11-07-2013 10:40am

smacl wrote: »

Everything seems to either cause cancer, or is the new miracle cure for cancer. IMHO, stressing about cancer causes cancer. What causes cancer today seems to be the cure for cancer tomorrow

Today's news is that fish oils both cause and cure cancer. Brilliant!

AstraMonti · 11-07-2013 10:53am

Maybe I missed it, but do you eat any fruits? Any deserts?

Ole Rodrigo · 11-07-2013 11:56am

AstraMonti wrote: »

Maybe I missed it, but do you eat any fruits? Any deserts?

Fruits are fine - the sugar is relatively low. Unless you're trying to lose weight, then a small amount of low sugar fruits like berries would be best. You cant go wrong with plant foods as a general rule I would say, but more vegetables and less fruit would be best.

The problem with desserts is that they are mostly preprocessed, to a certain degree at least ( ice cream, pastries, etc ). Processed essentially means de-natured ( stripped of any original nutrients) high in sugar, bad fats . You could buy an ice cream maker and make ice cream from soy or almond milk though. Freshly made almond milk btw, sweetend with dates is really delicious. You could also make pancakes from rice flour and almond milk too. Although maple syrup and honey are strictly paleo/ primal ( because they are close to their original state ) small amounts is key because they still raise your blood sugar.

Edit - Strictly speaking that should be ground almond instead of Rice flour ( but Rice flour is gluten free )

Seaneh · 11-07-2013 12:15pm

Really decent pealo pancake recipe.

2 egg, 2 bananas.

Mash up your banana until it's smooth, beat your eggs, mix them and then fry a few dollops at a time in a coconut oil.

tis yummers.

Can add ground almond or something it give more texture.

petethedrummer · 11-07-2013 12:30pm

Lumen wrote: »

Today's news is that fish oils both cause and cure cancer. Brilliant!

Yeah I heard that alright. You'll eventually die of something, maybe a bit later but maybe a bit earlier depending on what you eat.

My diet change was for quality of life reasons. If that means a shorter but better life, then so be it.

NamelessPhil · 11-07-2013 1:02pm

There's a good blog called Science-based Medicine that takes a scientific look at some of the claims made by advocates of the paleo diet. http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/its-a-part-of-my-paleo-fantasy-its-a-part-of-my-paleo-dream/

Some of the claims that paleolithic peoples didn't suffer from heart disease or cancer don't seem to be supported.

Ole Rodrigo · 11-07-2013 1:05pm

NamelessPhil wrote: »

There's a good blog called Science-based Medicine that takes a scientific look at some of the claims made by advocates of the paleo diet. http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/its-a-part-of-my-paleo-fantasy-its-a-part-of-my-paleo-dream/

Some of the claims that paleolithic peoples didn't suffer from heart disease or cancer don't seem to be supported.

Thats right. There is good evidence suggesting too much animal products cause problems.

Once its balanced with lots of plant foods though, paleo/primal seems to be a good bet.

Edit - its also worth pointing out the science involved with human nutrition is by no means as rigorous as, say, the science involved with establishing a new particle.

Lumen · 11-07-2013 3:09pm

ror_74 wrote: »

Thats right. There is good evidence suggesting too much animal products cause problems.

Once its balanced with lots of plant foods though, paleo/primal seems to be a good bet.

If one was concerned with health, why not just go paleo-vegan or whatever it's called?

petethedrummer · 11-07-2013 3:32pm

Lumen wrote: »

why not just go paleo-vegan or whatever it's called?

This is why. She was Spurlock's GF during Supersize Me.

http://alexandrajamieson.com/im-not-vegan-anymore/

http://youtu.be/evcNPfZlrZs?t=1h35m56s

Ole Rodrigo · 11-07-2013 4:06pm

Lumen wrote: »

If one was concerned with health, why not just go paleo-vegan or whatever it's called?

Agreed. In fact, I suspect its the vegan/ yoga folk who might fare best in the long run.

Whats also interesting is rise of medical clinics that treat various conditions with nutrition, and they all emphasise a lot of raw vegetables, fruit, nuts and seeds, with some lightly cooked vegetables and little or no animal foods. Not that that necessarily means anything for anyone else, but as a benchmark it could be useful. Its plant foods that get the thumbs up from every side of the debate, time and time again. Vitamin B12 is the only deficiency in a varied properly executed plant only diet. The body stores up to 3 years worth when its fully nourished. But..a good vegan diet is not very convenient and takes more commitment than a paleo one.

I also suspect many paleo sites put too much emphasis on animal fat because thats what people want to hear, that its ok to eat a lot of animal foods. This is what drives traffic to their sites. You can also design a high fat plant diet for example - nuts, coconut, avocado..but we don't hear much of that. And we should, they are equally ' paleo ' food types after all. Another thing is the clear problems associated with too much protein in a diet. Its hard to design a diet high in animal fats that isn't high in protein too. Just sayin ..!

Ole Rodrigo · 11-07-2013 4:19pm

petethedrummer wrote: »

This is why. She was Spurlock's GF during Supersize Me.

http://alexandrajamieson.com/im-not-vegan-anymore/

http://youtu.be/evcNPfZlrZs?t=1h35m56s

As a criticism of her site, I suspect the market she is aiming herself at is lifestyle vegans, those who for not very well thought out reasons - say college age idealists who think they are saving the planet - decided to go vegan and ended up malnourished.

Lumen · 11-07-2013 5:02pm

petethedrummer wrote: »

This is why. She was Spurlock's GF during Supersize Me.

http://alexandrajamieson.com/im-not-vegan-anymore/

At least she didn't overthink it. :pac:

petethedrummer · 11-07-2013 5:44pm

Lumen wrote: »

At least she didn't overthink it. :pac:

In interest of full disclosure. I broke my low carb diet yesterday. I had cheese cake. I'm sorry to all my supporters. I am crying as I write this.

TinyExplosions · 11-07-2013 5:59pm

petethedrummer wrote: »

In interest of full disclosure. I broke my low carb diet yesterday. I had cheese cake. I'm sorry to all my supporters. I am crying as I write this.

And you were my hero ;(

(I had a couple butlers chocolates today that I got given by work, so I'm as bad)

Ole Rodrigo · 11-07-2013 6:23pm

petethedrummer wrote: »

In interest of full disclosure. I broke my low carb diet yesterday. I had cheese cake. I'm sorry to all my supporters. I am crying as I write this.

Tut tut...its cancer for you so.

petethedrummer · 12-07-2013 4:32pm

ror_74 wrote: »

Tut tut...its cancer for you so.

It's cancer one way or the other. Unless Burzynski gets his way, then we'll all be grand.

ROK ON · 12-07-2013 4:53pm

petethedrummer wrote: »

In interest of full disclosure. I broke my low carb diet yesterday. I had cheese cake. I'm sorry to all my supporters. I am crying as I write this.

Pete

An essential part of cult membership is to sin and then confess and plead for forgiveness from fellow cultists. This is the path to reverence in the cult world.
Ive seen them do it on some US religious tb channels. I mean these guys attract thousands of people tontheir cermonies so must be onto something.

niceonetom · 12-07-2013 8:43pm

I think it might be my turn in the Circle of Shame.

God I love biscuits.

Ole Rodrigo · 12-07-2013 9:37pm

Pastries. Even the Aldi ones that look the same after 2 weeks in the cupboard.

CramCycle · 12-07-2013 10:01pm

ror_74 wrote: »

Pastries. Even the Aldi ones that look the same after 2 weeks in the cupboard.

Delicious?

I have tried cutting down on my carbs. 27 years of type 1 diabetes, being told that carbs were the only thing you need. It is tough to even cut down a small bit. I would have been eating about 600grams of carbs per day minimum. So I have started to cut down after reading through some of the articles linked to here and to others I have found myself looking at type 1 diabetes. After the initial cravings, I don't think I will ever go down to the levels in some of the links but after a few days I am down to about 250grams without being uncomfortable. Already my insulin requirements have dropped dramatically, my basal is the same but my short acting is just under half what it was. No sudden weight loss but that isn't a concern for me, I just want to see what it will do for my glucose control, which so far seems to have improved but it is too short a time span to comment on wether it is me looking at it closer or actually the reduction in carbs. I have noticed though that I am now more sensitive as well, in the past if I ate a small unexpected treat it wouldn't really affect me but only after a few days it will spike my sugars severely.

Ole Rodrigo · 13-07-2013 5:59pm

Well, the fresh ones yep - the idea of the Aldi ones is usually better than the reality. They still end up in my basket though.

smacl · 15-07-2013 1:26pm

Loving this thread!

NamelessPhil wrote: »

There's a good blog called Science-based Medicine that takes a scientific look at some of the claims made by advocates of the paleo diet. http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/its-a-part-of-my-paleo-fantasy-its-a-part-of-my-paleo-dream/

Some of the claims that paleolithic peoples didn't suffer from heart disease or cancer don't seem to be supported.

Great article, and sums up much of what I'd think about paleo. Not that it is necessarily a bad diet, but the reasons why have little to do with the diet of our ancestors. It's also worth looking at the new paleo dieters previous diet. While the paleo diet would be far from my idea of a perfect diet, it's often a huge improvement on what many people are eating.

While I'm all for lots of raw foods, personally I'd miss the grain. Starting the day with porridge or muesli leaves me feeling healthy and energised, the odd beer feels good so must be good, and having a single malt with the old man (now 85) doesn't seem to shorten the life any. YMMV.

petethedrummer · 15-07-2013 3:07pm

smacl wrote: »

Not that it is necessarily a bad diet, but the reasons why have little to do with the diet of our ancestors.

So you're actually telling me that Superquinn Sausages were not around in Paleolithic times. Unbelievable.

Lumen · 15-07-2013 3:36pm

Haterz be hatin.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=why-paleo-diet-half-baked-how-hunter-gatherer-really-eat

(sorry if this was posted already)

smacl · 15-07-2013 3:40pm

petethedrummer wrote: »

So you're actually telling me that Superquinn Sausages were not around in Paleolithic times. Unbelievable.

Nope, though the very pink looking ones have an expiry date that suggests that if they had been around they'd be as edible today as they were then. I seem to remember watching a program a while back following on from a landslide near a cemetery in the states where a number of corpses had been unearthed. While the wooden caskets had rotted away, the bodies were well preserved which the program put down the the amount of preservatives that had been consumed over a life time. I don't know about our paleo guy, but the Egyptians would have loved those pink sausages!

petethedrummer · 15-07-2013 4:14pm

smacl wrote: »

While I'm all for lots of raw foods, personally I'd miss the grain. Starting the day with porridge or muesli leaves me feeling healthy and energised, the odd beer feels good so must be good, and having a single malt with the old man (now 85) doesn't seem to shorten the life any. YMMV.

This differing response to food is why I started this thread. And to show that there are many schools of thought on what constitutes a healthy diet. You thrive on grain, IIRC Ror_74 is fine with a relatively high carb in take. I am better with a low carb low grain intake.

None of these is a one size fits all solution and that is certainly not what I am proposing. It's finding the balance that works for the individual to thrive that is important.

I have eliminated my tiredness and run-down issues by going down this path. Weight maintenance while not a great problem for me is now an absolute doddle and something I do not have to contemplate. I also feel a better mental wellness. My symptoms of asthma have been enormously reduced with out the need for a preventative inhaler. I have not touched the brown or blue inhaler since starting this. I hadn't mentioned that in the thread so far as I cannot put my finger on what exactly caused the reduction in asthma. I believe it is a combination of a few things.

None of these issues may effect you or any reader and I would therefore not encourage anyone to go down this route. I would also encourage anyone to study as much as they can on nutrition before changing anything significantly. I only went down this route as I heard Noakes had reduced and eliminated some health issues we shared.

petethedrummer · 15-07-2013 4:25pm

smacl wrote: »

Nope, though the very pink looking ones have an expiry date that suggests that if they had been around they'd be as edible today as they were then. I seem to remember watching a program a while back following on from a landslide near a cemetery in the states where a number of corpses had been unearthed. While the wooden caskets had rotted away, the bodies were well preserved which the program put down the the amount of preservatives that had been consumed over a life time. I don't know about our paleo guy, but the Egyptians would have loved those pink sausages!

The paleo sites tell you to eat grass fed organic meat as much as possible. Something I strive to do. But I'll have the odd supermarket sausage.

I am against calling myself a paleo. As I have read similar articles on why modern paleo is not paleo-paleo. I do use paleo websites though as they have all the best recipes and some good discussions on nutrition. Go to any paleo forum and you will see them argue over what constitutes paleo. And debates on whether it is healthy or not.

But like your dismissal of the cholesterol books earlier in the thread, you seem quick to dismiss on the name alone without examining the content.

smacl · 15-07-2013 5:27pm

petethedrummer wrote: »

But like your dismissal of the cholesterol books earlier in the thread, you seem quick to dismiss on the name alone without examining the content.

I've no problem at all with the paleo diet per se, and have friends who are far healthier than I am thrive on it. Where I'm taking a mild dig is at the evangelical paleo dogma, Grok, and all that goes with it. Picking the parts that work for you, skipping those that don't, and adjusting as necessary seems like a very pragmatic approach.

As for dismissing material quickly, for most papers linked in a discussion forum like this, I read the precis first and then decide whether to skim, study or ignore. Simply too much information to digest and too little time. Apologies if I come across as trollish, and best of luck with the diet.

ROK ON · 15-07-2013 6:09pm

First time under 90 kilos for me in a long time.

Not watching my weight but have cut way back on carbs and sugar.

Now to be fair I have had an ice cream a day for the past four days, but it is hitting 30 degrees.

Lots of fish (particulalry trout), meat, salads etcs.
It is unenjooyable for me to kill carbs from my diet, but it is not unachievable for me to cut way back.

This thread has been one of the best on this site for a long time. Its hard to say whether this is all bunkum or not, but the thread and added reading/watching material is stimulating and gives me a lot to ponder.

Thanks all.

I've Joined a Cult

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