Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

The front of buses

  • 13-08-2018 11:19pm
    #1
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,234 ✭✭✭✭


    Why is there a large black area at the front of buses, surrounding the destination 'scroll'?

    Surely it would improve visibility of the bus to have a brighter colour there? Alternatively, you could go for a bigger scroll, but that might cost a fair bit.

    458260.jpg

    458261.jpg

    458262.jpg


Comments

  • #2
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    I would think the LED stands out better on a black background rather than a blue or another colour background. I think was tried when the first dot matrix RVs were delivered but then it was changed to a black background.


  • #3
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Preference in order is 3, 1, 2.


  • #4
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,234 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    I would think the LED stands out better on a black background rather than a blue or another colour background. I think was tried when the first dot matrix RVs were delivered but then it was changed to a black background.
    Perhaps. But having a reflective black background isn't great.

    Having buses yellow is good for visibility, but having most of the front black or glass isn't great.

    I wonder how well the orange contrasts with the blue.


  • #5
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    Victor wrote: »
    Perhaps. But having a reflective black background isn't great.

    Having buses yellow is good for visibility, but having most of the front black or glass isn't great.

    I wonder how well the orange contrasts with the blue.

    The old scrolls were easier to see than the current LEDs look at how clear the scrolls are in London however scrolls have the big disadvantage of being inflexible so they can't be changed look at how clear London bus destination displays are.

    Mind you the LEDs do stand out at night. It would be good if they introduce something like Paris has here in Dublin.


  • #6
    KD345
    Registered Users Posts: 1,178 ✭✭✭KD345


    With the different designs of buses it makes sense for one size to be used. Dublin Bus mostly have a fleet of Wright Gemini’s with a similar front, but up until recently there were over 600 ALX400s in service with a totally different design. There are also over 100 Enviro 400/500 vehicles in use with a different front again. The same LED unit is in use across all types of vehicles and makes swapping them out easy if a bus is withdrawn or the unit is damaged.
    I’m guessing ordering one type of display across the whole fleet is cheaper than ordering per bus (these units are not cheap), and it keeps a consistent look for passengers.


  • Advertisement
  • #7
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    I don't think it's black, it's dark blue , part of the light and dark blue livery scheme.
    A bit like Preist's Socks I guess.


  • #8
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    The old scrolls were easier to see than the current LEDs look at how clear the scrolls are in London however scrolls have the big disadvantage of being inflexible so they can't be changed look at how clear London bus destination displays are.

    Mind you the LEDs do stand out at night. It would be good if they introduce something like Paris has here in Dublin.

    The new BCI Tri-Axle which entered service this week in London has a VERY clear hi-definition LED display....

    https://i.imgur.com/uVqgUVt.png

    This is a very innovative and interesting machine,and one which the NTA should have sought to trial in Dublin.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • #9
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 12,950 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    The new BCI Tri-Axle which entered service this week in London has a VERY clear hi-definition LED display....

    https://i.imgur.com/uVqgUVt.png

    This is a very innovative and interesting machine,and one which the NTA should have sought to trial in Dublin.

    VT's are getting on a bit and will be in need of replacement sooner or later. Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps :)


  • #10
    prinzeugen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,891 ✭✭✭prinzeugen


    IIRC there are regulations on font, font-size, font and background colour etc under the EU disability regulations for the partially sighted.

    Its caused UK rail companies big problems. There was once a small fleet of trains (SWT 485 before rebuild) unable to return to service because the PIS showed letters/numbers that were a few cm too small.


  • #11
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    a few cm? just how big do they have to be!

    Hardly surprising they had trouble fitting a display on to ex tube cars.


  • Advertisement
  • #12
    prinzeugen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,891 ✭✭✭prinzeugen


    Isambard wrote: »
    a few cm? just how big do they have to be!

    Hardly surprising they had trouble fitting a display on to ex tube cars.

    I can't remember but a good example is some of the older trains on ScotRail. The LED/LCD destination on the front used to have two lines of text. For example,

    Edinburgh
    Waverley

    The letters were too small however, so now the only way of using the correct size font is to use huge letters on a scrolling screen. Which is useless on a train coming into a station as all you can see is gh Wav before it passes you!


  • #13
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,582 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    prinzeugen wrote: »
    Its caused UK rail companies big problems. There was once a small fleet of trains (SWT 485 before rebuild) unable to return to service because the PIS showed letters/numbers that were a few cm too small.

    Class 485's never had LED displays I'm aware, they're way too old for that.

    Not sure why them being too small would stop them being returned to service, they could just turn the displays off, since a large amount of stock in the UK still has no LED or PIS systems.


  • #14
    prinzeugen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,891 ✭✭✭prinzeugen


    devnull wrote: »
    Class 485's never had LED displays I'm aware, they're way too old for that.

    Not sure why them being too small would stop them being returned to service, they could just turn the displays off, since a large amount of stock in the UK still has no LED or PIS systems.

    Old? 1998 built is new enough in railway terms. Older stuff will be gone in 2020. They have no choice if its not fully accessible.

    From Wikipedia, regarding the 458's " In July 2006, the Department for Transport refused to grant an further exemption from the Rail Vehicle Accessibility Regulations, resulting in modifications to the passenger information system being made, with new wider LEDs fitted within the existing housing"

    I have to say that as someone with perfect 20/20 vision, the destination display on the front of Dublin Buses is unreadable from more than 100yrds under most lighting/weather conditions.


  • #15
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,582 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    I'm pretty sure that you mean a different train, since Class 485s were built in 1923-31 according to Wikipedia.

    Sure, those trains with PIS systems will have to be adapted, but as far as I'm aware there is no requirement for any train without PIS systems to be fitted with one post 2020.

    There is going to be a fair few loco hauled stock that will survive past 2020 with modifications as well as a few more types of older diesel units that will hold on past then with modifications, but the pacers will be gone!

    The trend for LED's these days is white high definition displays, which are easier to read.


  • #16
    Isambard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,796 ✭✭✭Isambard


    yeah he means 458 I think


  • #17
    prinzeugen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,891 ✭✭✭prinzeugen


    devnull wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure that you mean a different train, since Class 485s were built in 1923-31 according to Wikipedia.

    Sure, those trains with PIS systems will have to be adapted, but as far as I'm aware there is no requirement for any train without PIS systems to be fitted with one post 2020.

    There is going to be a fair few loco hauled stock that will survive past 2020 with modifications as well as a few more types of older diesel units that will hold on past then with modifications, but the pacers will be gone!

    The trend for LED's these days is white high definition displays, which are easier to read.

    Sorry, didn't realise I had 485. I was on about the Alstlom class 458 for South West Trains.

    Loco hauled/HST stock can only remain in service after 2020 if they have sliding doors.

    There are exceptions such as the GWR sleeper, charter stock and any remaining Mk3 on Anglia.

    The majority of older stock that is being retained post 2020 has or is being fitted with PIS along with other disability related mods.

    White letters on a black background seems better to me anyway. The current Orange led with black is unreadable especially during the day. I recall reading something however that suggests orange on black is easier for people with poor sight.


  • #18
    p_haugh
    Registered Users Posts: 1,115 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    Losty Dublin wrote: »
    VT's are getting on a bit and will be in need of replacement sooner or later. Perhaps, perhaps, perhaps :)

    IIRC the VT's will be phased out by 2020.
    Also, its rumoured that the NTA is not planning on ordering any more tri-axle busses, which is a shame.


  • #19
    Stephen15
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭Stephen15


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    The new BCI Tri-Axle which entered service this week in London has a VERY clear hi-definition LED display....

    https://i.imgur.com/uVqgUVt.png

    This is a very innovative and interesting machine,and one which the NTA should have sought to trial in Dublin.

    I have heard they aren't meant to be good and have a number of health and safety concerns for both passengers and drivers. For example the upstairs doesn't even have handrails. This is all according to this London Bus driver.

    https://www.facebook.com/chrissrealtalk/videos/170643753854282/


  • #20
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Stephen15 wrote: »
    I have heard they aren't meant to be good and have a number of health and safety concerns for both passengers and drivers. For example the upstairs doesn't even have handrails. This is all according to this London Bus driver.

    https://www.facebook.com/chrissrealtalk/videos/170643753854282/

    It's wise to be wary of accepting "Staff Talk" as anything other than personal opinion,until the content can be independently verified.

    The current NBRU-"Official" Busconnects Information Meetings is a case in point.

    Dissing the BCI vehicles is but one example,as the issue of handrails is not specific to the model.

    Several operators,amongst them Reading Buses,now have a policy of specifying Seat Mounted Grabrails as opposed to Stanchions,for the simple reason that possibly the main contributor to saloon noise is rattling stanchions.

    Bus Bodywork is inherently flexible,a long wheelbase vehicle can flex and twist up to 55mm in each plane,so any physical connections between the structures will have to be enginered to move also...this is more difficult that might be initially thought.

    Stanchionless saloons also give a more open and airy feel to the vehicle.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



Advertisement