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Incapacitated Child Tax Credit

  • 03-10-2019 11:56am
    #1
    captainneutron
    Registered Users Posts: 193 ✭✭


    Hey guys,

    Looking for a bit of info on this subject if possible.

    Currently applying for incapacitated child tax credit for my son who was diganosed autistic few months ago. GP signed the form and advised it was present since birth. As he is only 8 years old who knows what way he is going to develop into an adult.

    My question really is if I get granted this credit and it turns out he is able to work or be somewhat dependant could this come back to bite me?

    To reiterate the GP has signed off he is incapacitated and I am in the process of applying.

    Thanks in advance


Comments

  • #2
    gogo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭gogo


    captainneutron wrote: »
    Hey guys,

    Looking for a bit of info on this subject if possible.

    Currently applying for incapacitated child tax credit for my son who was diganosed autistic few months ago. GP signed the form and advised it was present since birth. As he is only 8 years old who knows what way he is going to develop into an adult.

    My question really is if I get granted this credit and it turns out he is able to work or be somewhat dependant could this come back to bite me?

    To reiterate the GP has signed off he is incapacitated and I am in the process of applying.

    Thanks in advance

    Short answer is no, it can’t come back to bite you, if your child had the same issues at 18 that he does now would he be able to maintain himself? That’s the question that you are really answering. If he improves over time with therapy and you feel he will be able to maintain himself then remove the tax credit at that time. But at this point in time if you and your doctor feel he wouldn’t be able to maintain himself then you are fine. Remove it down the road if you feel things have changed.

    You don’t have a crystal ball, who knows what he will be like in 10 years time (hopefully great) so once your doctor was happy to fill it in, you are fine.
    Hope this helps, best of luck to your son


  • #3
    captainneutron
    Registered Users Posts: 193 ✭✭captainneutron


    Thank you so much for that reply. Really appreciate it. Really has helped. Yes that was my thinking too that no one knows what way things will change down the road.


  • #4
    AckwelFoley
    Registered Users Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    The answer is absolutely not.

    As long as the information is accurate and honest youre fine.

    Think of it this way, it is your aim and the aim of the state to provide your child with the best resources possible. The ultimate endgame is to maximize their potential, and if that is living a "normal" life, your child wins, you win and the state wins.


  • #5
    marizpan
    Registered Users Posts: 443 ✭✭marizpan


    I’m going to disagree and say yes it can bite you.

    As a tax advisor and having discussed this with Revenue.


  • #6
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    marizpan wrote: »
    I’m going to disagree and say yes it can bite you.

    As a tax advisor and having discussed this with Revenue.

    So if the parent takes advantage of the tax credit and puts the time and money into investing into their child and making sure they can compete in society the parent will be penalized for it?

    Would the doctors and the medical report authors not be liable then also?

    Not trying to be contrary but how in the hell can anyone be penalized for a medical diagnosis done in early childhood?

    I am being very bullish on this one as parents with children on the spectrum have it hard enough as is without scaremongering. That is probably not your intent but without elaborating on what you mean and explaining the point can heap on worry thats not needed.


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  • #7
    marizpan
    Registered Users Posts: 443 ✭✭marizpan


    It’s a matter of tax law and the definition of permanent incapacitation.

    When the pps number of the child is registered for employment it will raise a flag with Revenue.

    They can review prior claims and go back 7 years.
    Whether they have the appetite for this especially as funding/resources for ASD are non-existence, who knows?

    But there is that chance, hence my opinion.
    So as to answer your question, yes you could be exposed to future issues with Revenue.
    I feel it is better to be informed not shocked down the road.


  • #8
    IvoryTower
    Registered Users Posts: 3,825 ✭✭✭IvoryTower


    Doesn't make sense really, I want lose any sleep over it and I certainly wont be cancelling it on the basis that I hope my son will be capable of working. Sounds like a healthy does of scaremongering from that revenue person.


  • #9
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    marizpan wrote: »
    It’s a matter of tax law and the definition of permanent incapacitation.

    When the pps number of the child is registered for employment it will raise a flag with Revenue.

    They can review prior claims and go back 7 years.
    Whether they have the appetite for this especially as funding/resources for ASD are non-existence, who knows?

    But there is that chance, hence my opinion.
    So as to answer your question, yes you could be exposed to future issues with Revenue.
    I feel it is better to be informed not shocked down the road.

    Its like this if it does come to it where your child could work of course you should check it then. That we agree on but a blanket statement on it without clarifying is dangerous, especially as you say your a tax advisor.

    The hardship that parents go through to get services and support, id rather have fully funded services than actually receive the tax credit. That is the reality of it for allot of parents and the revenue system would find a healthy spotlight on them if it did happen.

    Final note, i appreciate your probably not trying to scare people but there are already conversations online of people afraid to apply for it as their kids may never ever work or do anything because of it.


  • #10
    marizpan
    Registered Users Posts: 443 ✭✭marizpan


    Calhoun wrote: »
    Its like this if it does come to it where your child could work of course you should check it then. That we agree on but a blanket statement on it without clarifying is dangerous, especially as you say your a tax advisor.

    The hardship that parents go through to get services and support, id rather have fully funded services than actually receive the tax credit. That is the reality of it for allot of parents and the revenue system would find a healthy spotlight on them if it did happen.

    Final note, i appreciate your probably not trying to scare people but there are already conversations online of people afraid to apply for it as their kids may never ever work or do anything because of it.

    Calhoun,
    I’m responding as a parent of an ASD child.
    Your assumption of scaremongering is unfair.
    I feel that people should be informed of the potential outcomes.


  • #11
    smelly sock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    captainneutron wrote: »
    Hey guys,

    Looking for a bit of info on this subject if possible.

    Currently applying for incapacitated child tax credit for my son who was diganosed autistic few months ago. GP signed the form and advised it was present since birth. As he is only 8 years old who knows what way he is going to develop into an adult.

    My question really is if I get granted this credit and it turns out he is able to work or be somewhat dependant could this come back to bite me?

    To reiterate the GP has signed off he is incapacitated and I am in the process of applying.

    Thanks in advance


    No. Ive been claiming it for years now. Your child is incapacitated. You sre entitled to it. Dont be worrying.


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  • #12
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    marizpan wrote: »
    Calhoun,
    I’m responding as a parent of an ASD child.
    Your assumption of scaremongering is unfair.
    I feel that people should be informed of the potential outcomes.

    You are also responding as a tax adviser, all i am saying is elaborate a little bit what scenarios you mean.

    I am not trying to be cruel in my response, i am just advising that it would help more to elaborate a bit.


  • #13
    DubCount
    Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭DubCount


    Incapacitated Child Tax Credit in relation to ASD has always been a bit unclear. Revenue guides list "acute ASD" as a basis for receiving the tax credit. I've never come across a doctor who uses the term "acute ASD". AFAIK, the issue is that the tax credit is not just for"incapacity" but specifically it is for a permanent incapacity that means the child will not be able to support themselves in the future. If your child makes sufficient progress that they may be able to support themselves in the future, then your entitlement to the tax credit goes away.

    If things improve, and your child starts work in 2020, then Revenue can rightly ask were you aware the child would become able to maintain themselves in 2019, or 2018, or 2017 etc. Tax rules don't allow them to go back asking the question more than 7 years. IMHO, the issue is when you became aware that your child would become able to maintain themselves in the future. That's the point when your entitlement to the tax credit should have gone away. Like any other tax issue, if Revenue find you were claiming a tax credit when you were not entitled to it, they will claw it back. If you were honest when you made the claim, I don't think they would have a problem.


  • #14
    Blazer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,414 ✭✭✭✭Blazer


    Don't forget you can claim for the past 4 years.
    And lets be honest here...more than likely your child will still be living with you at 18. Its probably not what you want to hear but most children who are on the spectrum will be with you for at least that length of time.
    Take the credits and don't feel one bit guilty about taking them...the government can't be bothered to provide a proper service for these children.
    I have 2 children that are approved for it but I'd much prefer if the money was invested in special needs assistance instead of tax credits. Of course its cheaper for the government to give you this rather than provide any helpful assistance.


  • #15
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    DubCount wrote: »
    Incapacitated Child Tax Credit in relation to ASD has always been a bit unclear. Revenue guides list "acute ASD" as a basis for receiving the tax credit. I've never come across a doctor who uses the term "acute ASD". AFAIK, the issue is that the tax credit is not just for"incapacity" but specifically it is for a permanent incapacity that means the child will not be able to support themselves in the future. If your child makes sufficient progress that they may be able to support themselves in the future, then your entitlement to the tax credit goes away.

    If things improve, and your child starts work in 2020, then Revenue can rightly ask were you aware the child would become able to maintain themselves in 2019, or 2018, or 2017 etc. Tax rules don't allow them to go back asking the question more than 7 years. IMHO, the issue is when you became aware that your child would become able to maintain themselves in the future. That's the point when your entitlement to the tax credit should have gone away. Like any other tax issue, if Revenue find you were claiming a tax credit when you were not entitled to it, they will claw it back. If you were honest when you made the claim, I don't think they would have a problem.

    I think they really need to clear up their own definition of it, especially around the ASD subject as it could become a PR nightmare in the future for them.

    My daughter when we applied, was non-verbal, flight risk, not toilet trained, and very limited diet. Since then two years later she has made progress in communication (a few words) but we don't know how things will turn out. I hope i actually do have this problem down the line but it could go either way.


  • #16
    DubCount
    Registered Users Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭DubCount


    Calhoun wrote: »
    I think they really need to clear up their own definition of it, especially around the ASD subject as it could become a PR nightmare in the future for them.

    My daughter when we applied, was non-verbal, flight risk, not toilet trained, and very limited diet. Since then two years later she has made progress in communication (a few words) but we don't know how things will turn out. I hope i actually do have this problem down the line but it could go either way.

    100% agree. "acute autism" is a meaningless term and their guidance is just not clear.

    I hope your daughter continues to progress in the right direction and achieves her full potential.


  • #17
    lazyman
    Registered Users Posts: 257 ✭✭lazyman


    Hi all
    We are in the process of applying for this for our four year old daughter who was diagnosed last year with autism so we will backdate the claim for the last 4 years
    Just wondering for the future is the tax credit automatically applied so my tax is reduced during the year or do you claim once a year like with medical expenses and get a lump sum refund?
    Revenue are not taking calls at the moment
    Thank you


  • #18
    fits
    Registered Users Posts: 13,208 ✭✭✭✭fits


    Its automatically applied.


  • #19
    lazyman
    Registered Users Posts: 257 ✭✭lazyman


    fits wrote: »
    Its automatically applied.

    Thank you, was hoping to get it every 12 months as a lump sum refund but not to worry, delighted to get it.


  • #20
    cartoonninja
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭cartoonninja


    Hi all just looking for some answers with the ICC forms, revenue are asking for the amount contributed by both myself and my partner. How do we work this out exactly is it just food clothing and medical costs?
    We don’t contribute to a seperate joint account for our daughter and I don’t want to give revenue incorrect information


  • #21
    fits
    Registered Users Posts: 13,208 ✭✭✭✭fits


    are you separated?
    I cant remember the form exactly but I think that section only applies if you are not married/cohabiting.


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  • #22
    cartoonninja
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭cartoonninja


    fits wrote: »
    are you separated?
    I cant remember the form exactly but I think that section only applies if you are not married/cohabiting.

    Hi thanks for your reply !
    we are co habiting not married, I just can’t figure out if they want our salary or the rough estimate of what we contribute to our daughter, no replies from revenue so far and we’re both very worried about giving them the wrong information.


  • #23
    fits
    Registered Users Posts: 13,208 ✭✭✭✭fits


    You could try giving financial wellbeing a call or an email. They specialise in this area and run workshops. I recommend them

    https://www.financialwellbeing.ie/


  • #24
    Blazer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,414 ✭✭✭✭Blazer


    cartoonninja wrote: »
    Hi thanks for your reply !
    we are co habiting not married, I just can’t figure out if they want our salary or the rough estimate of what we contribute to our daughter, no replies from revenue so far and we’re both very worried about giving them the wrong information.

    easiest for just one person to claim it.
    I did same for myself and I think I put through 15k per year or something. I included rental/mortage and everything associated with my child.
    I got no queries back on it etc as see my next comment.
    IT doesn't really matter as the credits are locked for each tax band so 1800 for lower tax band and 3600 for higher tax band.
    Also make sure to backdate to birth. You can claim upto 4 years back.


  • #25
    techdiver
    Registered Users Posts: 3,061 ✭✭✭techdiver


    Hi,

    Sorry to jump in here but I'm trying to get my head around some of the questions and the "expected" answers required for approval on the ICC 2 Form
    2.

    The questions:

    2. Is the incapacity permanent?
    3. Can this incapacity be improved by the use of any treatment,
    device, medication or therapy?
    If YES (Child aged under 18), will this treatment improve the
    incapacity to the extent that the child will be able to maintain
    themselves on reaching 18?

    How can you answer any of these accurately without a crystal ball?

    I believe if you answer Yes to any of these your claim will be denied. Can anyone clarify this?


  • #26
    fits
    Registered Users Posts: 13,208 ✭✭✭✭fits


    techdiver wrote: »
    Hi,

    Sorry to jump in here but I'm trying to get my head around some of the questions and the "expected" answers required for approval on the ICC 2 Form
    2.

    The questions:

    2. Is the incapacity permanent?
    3. Can this incapacity be improved by the use of any treatment,
    device, medication or therapy?
    If YES (Child aged under 18), will this treatment improve the
    incapacity to the extent that the child will be able to maintain
    themselves on reaching 18?

    How can you answer any of these accurately without a crystal ball?

    I believe if you answer Yes to any of these your claim will be denied. Can anyone clarify this?

    I think the doctor fills in that section?


  • #27
    techdiver
    Registered Users Posts: 3,061 ✭✭✭techdiver


    fits wrote: »
    I think the doctor fills in that section?

    Yes but if the doctor doesn't fill it in "correctly" as some people above have stated it could result in an application being denied. It's also odd that it is a gp that has to fill this out and not the psychologist who performed the diagnosis.


  • #28
    fits
    Registered Users Posts: 13,208 ✭✭✭✭fits


    techdiver wrote: »
    Yes but if the doctor doesn't fill it in "correctly" as some people above have stated it could result in an application being denied. It's also odd that it is a gp that has to fill this out and not the psychologist who performed the diagnosis.

    It’s not always a psychologist who gives diagnosis

    Anyway in our case answers were
    Yes it’s permanent
    Yes it improves with treatment
    No treatment is not likely to lead to independent living after age18. ( that’s best guess now).

    We got it without issue.


  • #29
    techdiver
    Registered Users Posts: 3,061 ✭✭✭techdiver


    fits wrote: »
    It’s not always a psychologist who gives diagnosis

    Anyway in our case answers were
    Yes it’s permanent
    Yes it improves with treatment
    No treatment is not likely to lead to independent living after age18. ( that’s best guess now).

    We got it without issue.

    Thanks for the reply.


  • #30
    lazyman
    Registered Users Posts: 257 ✭✭lazyman


    techdiver wrote: »
    Yes but if the doctor doesn't fill it in "correctly" as some people above have stated it could result in an application being denied. It's also odd that it is a gp that has to fill this out and not the psychologist who performed the diagnosis.

    Our GP filled in the form incorrectly so we contacted the Paediatrician in the hospital in fill it out instead, i don't think revenue will always accept if the Psychologist fills it out


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