Avengers: Endgame [ SPOILERS FROM POST 613 ]

Foxtrol · 07-08-2019 2:27pm

Dades wrote: »

That's not really an opposite, it's a corollary!

You need to be careful of discounting opinions of those who are not "fans". Everyone has a right to review a 3+ hr movie they've watched, even if they're suffering from superhero fatigue, or couldn't make it to theatres.

Of course you will get those who are determined to crap on a movie because of the genre, and those "reviews" are pointless.

Your pedanticness aside, your post is basically repeating what I included in the rest of my post that you didn't quote.... so thanks I guess

I specicially stated that I don't automatically discount their opinions, moreso those that appear right after the dvd rip becomes available and the total sum of their review is two sentences that basically boil down to 'that was crap because I didn't like it'.

TherapyBoy · 07-08-2019 2:34pm

conorhal wrote: »

The whole debacle kicked off with a father sacrificing his daughter to, as Thano's saw it, right the universe.
I think it would have had more emotional heft and a more lyrical narrative structure if this was mirrored by Tony facing the same moral dilema to save the universe from his own perspective.

I think Tony did face the moral dilemma, & moral dilemma stared him down :pac:

Thanos wanted to wipe out half the population of the universe & was willing to sacrifice everything & anything to get it, including his daughter. Tony wanted to bring back half the population of the universe but wasn’t willing to sacrifice his daughter to do it. You could call it a weakness in Tony Stark but to me it was just a ‘good vs evil’ thing.

Foxtrol · 07-08-2019 2:41pm

brianregan09 wrote: »

But that's your opinion which your entitled , take a break from them , the comic con timeline that was showed I'm hyped for those so I'm a seal ........this is what I don't like about threads like this people have opinions but then insult others who don't share it ...

I suppose I'm also a seal, as I think the timeline they've set out is a great call and probably the best of both worlds.

Beyond the name calling, I understand why people like pixeleburp would want a break and what they've planned in some ways provides this while keeping the ball rolling. Aside from the Thor movie, they're not really pushing any other 'A-listers', instead digging into less known current characters and characters that aren't known at all by most of the public. This should allow the stakes to be lowered and things breath a little before they go back to the likes of Black Panther, Captain Marvel, Spiderman, large ensemble Avengers like movies and introduce Blade, Fantatic 4, and mutants.

For all the talk of how many people are already in superhero fatigue, which some have claimed was going to drag things down since around the days of the first Thor movie, something like 5 of the last 6 MCU movies broke $1b. Clearly Phase 4 will likely see a dip in numbers but, dispite how many will proclaim that they were 'right' about superhero fatigue, I expect momentum to build again into Phase 5.

Penn · 07-08-2019 2:43pm

brianregan09 wrote: »

But that's your opinion which your entitled , take a break from them , the comic con timeline that was showed I'm hyped for those so I'm a seal ........this is what I don't like about threads like this people have opinions but then insult others who don't share it ...

I agree. I also think Marvel have shown they're switching the slant of the movies a bit to focus on more space/cosmic/magic-type movies for the next while, with Eternals, Thor 4 and Dr.Strange 2. This will move things away from Earth a bit and allow the directors to be more creative, in the same vein as Thor Ragnarok and the GOTG movies.

Marvel's announcements at ComicCon were cheered because a) they're fans at ComicCon so of course they're more predisposed to cheer something like that, and b) most people (judging by the numbers and reception to Endgame) don't need time to rekindle the hype and desire, because it still hasn't dwindled for them. Marvel may definitely hit a post-Endgame slump as the MCU has to rebuild itself and pull things back a bit, but there's also no reason to stop or take a few years off either as people are clearly still hyped for the next phase of movies and the announcements which were made.

I think they're taking the Thor and Dr.Strange movies in interesting directions, Eternals has a decent cast and could be good (though I know nothing of the characters so it'll be the first Marvel movie I'm going in almost completely blind to), Black Widow will presumably have a darker tone than most MCU movies and it'll be great to see her backstory, and Shang Chi if they really lean into the martial arts could produce some of the best actual fight scenes in the MCU (rather than GFX and powers/abilities).

And that's not even including the likes of Blade, F4 and XMen coming further down the line, plus some of the Disney+ TV shows could be great.

If being excited about all that makes one a seal, I hope I'm a thoroughly entertained seal.

Foxtrol · 07-08-2019 2:49pm

TherapyBoy wrote: »

I think Tony did face the moral dilemma, & moral dilemma stared him down :pac:

Thanos wanted to wipe out half the population of the universe & was willing to sacrifice everything & anything to get it, including his daughter. Tony wanted to bring back half the population of the universe but wasn’t willing to sacrifice his daughter to do it. You could call it a weakness in Tony Stark but to me it was just a ‘good vs evil’ thing.

Tony sacrificed his own life to defeat Thanos, which is a pretty big sacrifice to make.

Interestingly, Captain America claimed in one of the earlier movies, in his standard Cap high horse way, that Tony would never sacrifice anything for the greater good. In the end it turned out that Tony made the ultimate sacrifice while Captain America never really sacrificed anything, by having the two most important people to him brought back into his life and living happily ever after.

Penn · 07-08-2019 2:56pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

Tony sacrificed his own life to defeat Thanos, which is a pretty big sacrifice to make.

Interestingly, Captain America claimed in one of the earlier movies, in his standard Cap high horse way, that Tony would never sacrifice anything for the greater good. In the end it turned out that Tony made the ultimate sacrifice while Captain America never really sacrificed anything, by having the two most important people to him brought back into his life and living happily ever after.

I think the whole thing about Cap claiming Tony wouldn't sacrifice himself if it came down to it payed off in Avengers 1. We all know Cap would have sacrificed himself if he needed to, and pretty much did so at the end of CA:TFA (though he survived). We already knew Cap was a hero. But up until then the enemies Tony fought in IM1&2 were small-time conflicts, and ones where the enemy was gunning specifically for him.

In The Avengers, Tony showed he would actually sacrifice his own life if it came down to it, by directing the nuke into space at the risk of his own life (though like Cap, he survived). I don't think there was any real question (to the audience or to Cap) that Tony would sacrifice his life if it meant undoing the Snap. Tony was just reluctant to join the fight at the start of Endgame because he just didn't think it was possible.

Foxtrol · 07-08-2019 3:09pm

Penn wrote: »

I think the whole thing about Cap claiming Tony wouldn't sacrifice himself if it came down to it payed off in Avengers 1. We all know Cap would have sacrificed himself if he needed to, and pretty much did so at the end of CA:TFA (though he survived). We already knew Cap was a hero. But up until then the enemies Tony fought in IM1&2 were small-time conflicts, and ones where the enemy was gunning specifically for him.

In The Avengers, Tony showed he would actually sacrifice his own life if it came down to it, by directing the nuke into space at the risk of his own life (though like Cap, he survived). I don't think there was any real question (to the audience or to Cap) that Tony would sacrifice his life if it meant undoing the Snap. Tony was just reluctant to join the fight at the start of Endgame because he just didn't think it was possible.

Agree with all of that. I'm not questioning whether Cap would have sacrificed himself, he'd do it every day of the weak and twice on Sundays, but more the fact that it is interesting in the end the most important things to Cap worked out and the guy he previously questioned ended up making the sacrifice.

Penn · 07-08-2019 3:24pm

Foxtrol wrote: »

Agree with all of that. I'm not questioning whether Cap would have sacrificed himself, he'd do it every day of the weak and twice on Sundays, but more the fact that it is interesting in the end the most important things to Cap worked out and the guy he previously questioned ended up making the sacrifice.

Aye. I think it's an interesting comparison to Cap too in that all he wanted was to be able to join the fight, ended up becoming not just a soldier but a super-soldier and was always willing to sacrifice whatever he had for the fight. In Age Of Ultron when Wanda gave him that vision, he couldn't even really imagine just being able to dance with Peggy, war was still on his mind, to the point where at the end of AOU and the new Avengers Facility, he feels more at home because there are soldiers there training.

I think by the start of Endgame, he already knows he needs to give up the fight and get a life, but he can't because the Snap is still unfinished business. Once they win, I think he realises he's just no longer a soldier any more. He doesn't want to fight any more. The man of war finally finds his peace.

ManOfMystery · 07-08-2019 4:30pm

TherapyBoy wrote: »

I think Tony did face the moral dilemma, & moral dilemma stared him down :pac:

Thanos wanted to wipe out half the population of the universe & was willing to sacrifice everything & anything to get it, including his daughter. Tony wanted to bring back half the population of the universe but wasn’t willing to sacrifice his daughter to do it. You could call it a weakness in Tony Stark but to me it was just a ‘good vs evil’ thing.

It was an interesting parallel, particularly when Thanos had the flashbacks of Gamora as a young girl similar in age to Tony's daughter.

He was willing to sacrifice others to achieve his needs. Tony wasn't, but was willing to sacrifice himself to achieve his needs. That fundamentally was the difference between them. Note that Thanos at no stage considered himself as a drain on the universe like the trillions he wiped out.

Foxtrol wrote: »

Agree with all of that. I'm not questioning whether Cap would have sacrificed himself, he'd do it every day of the weak and twice on Sundays, but more the fact that it is interesting in the end the most important things to Cap worked out and the guy he previously questioned ended up making the sacrifice.

Another parallel, and 2 character arcs which I think were very successful. Despite both being on the side of the good guys, Tony and Steve were almost always opposites - cocky, egotistical, humorous, materialistic - vs - humble, serious, valiant. In the end, Tony gives up his life for the greater good, and Steve pursues a life of his own after serving the greater good for so long. I felt it was a satisfying end for both, having for so long believed that Cap would probably die in this movie.

Kermit.de.frog · 07-08-2019 5:05pm

I understand for fans that they obviously like the movie and it is somewhat entertaining. I enjoyed it for what it is - another dumb superhero movie.

But anyone saying this is a good or great movie. It just isn't. It's the same tired old formula rehashed yet again. Even for an MCU movie I thought it was poorly executed in terms of dialogue, tone, pacing. There is nothing new, inventive or creative here.

Personally I'd like to see talent used on other movies with fresh ideas now rather than have it wasted on another 10 years of MCU movies.

Like I said though I enjoyed the movie for what it is. Dumb, entertaining and forgettable.

pixelburp · 07-08-2019 5:42pm

brianregan09 wrote: »

But that's your opinion which your entitled , take a break from them , the comic con timeline that was showed I'm hyped for those so I'm a seal ........this is what I don't like about threads like this people have opinions but then insult others who don't share it ...

Foxtrol wrote: »

I suppose I'm also a seal, as I think the timeline they've set out is a great call and probably the best of both worlds.

Beyond the name calling, I understand why people like pixeleburp would want a break and what they've planned in some ways provides this while keeping the ball rolling. Aside from the Thor movie, they're not really pushing any other 'A-listers', instead digging into less known current characters and characters that aren't known at all by most of the public. This should allow the stakes to be lowered and things breath a little before they go back to the likes of Black Panther, Captain Marvel, Spiderman, large ensemble Avengers like movies and introduce Blade, Fantatic 4, and mutants.

The name calling is for the convention attendees who clap and applaud every benign announcement, I find the hyper fandom found at those things - and I extend it out to others like E3 - unappealing. Such is the way of American crowds mind you, they tend to whoop everything, including at cinemas so *shrug*. But g',way taking insult not actually aimed at anyone here :rolleyes:

Like, I don't feel like defending my comic bona fides, but yeah, I DO feel superhero fatigue because they are literally everywhere now; The Boys on Amazon showing that we really have entered the deconstructionist phase. Everyone has their limit and I think I'm hitting it.

It's only lately, but this sense of a neverending production line, conveyed by the post Endgame timeline, doesn't make the MCU feel special, unique or exciting anymore. Just a procession of corporate necessity because this series will not stop for anything. Disney+ ramming this growing ennui home with their double header of MCU + Star Wars.

The main problem I foresee in the actual films is a sense of scale: Thanos will be a hard threat to top, and looking at the current roster I feel nothing to garner excitement. In fact, I outright hate some of the new characters ; Dr Strange, Captain Marvel, to name two, will need to perform wonders to get me to their sequels. The latter the first MCU film I really hated and thought genuinely subpar. Far From Home didn't inspire and yeah, like I said I'm hitting my limit. With Cap, Stark and Black Widow, the series feels "done".

ManOfMystery · 07-08-2019 10:54pm

pixelburp wrote: »

The name calling is for the convention attendees who clap and applaud every benign announcement, I find the hyper fandom found at those things - and I extend it out to others like E3 - unappealing. Such is the way of American crowds mind you, they tend to whoop everything, including at cinemas so *shrug*. But g',way taking insult not actually aimed at anyone here :rolleyes:

Like, I don't feel like defending my comic bona fides, but yeah, I DO feel superhero fatigue because they are literally everywhere now; The Boys on Amazon showing that we really have entered the deconstructionist phase. Everyone has their limit and I think I'm hitting it.

It's only lately, but this sense of a neverending production line, conveyed by the post Endgame timeline, doesn't make the MCU feel special, unique or exciting anymore. Just a procession of corporate necessity because this series will not stop for anything. Disney+ ramming this growing ennui home with their double header of MCU + Star Wars.

The main problem I foresee in the actual films is a sense of scale: Thanos will be a hard threat to top, and looking at the current roster I feel nothing to garner excitement. In fact, I outright hate some of the new characters ; Dr Strange, Captain Marvel, to name two, will need to perform wonders to get me to their sequels. The latter the first MCU film I really hated and thought genuinely subpar. Far From Home didn't inspire and yeah, like I said I'm hitting my limit. With Cap, Stark and Black Widow, the series feels "done".

Thanos does seem a hard threat to top at this point, but we're still very much in post Endgame times and there's a long way to go. When I sat down to watch the first IronMan film I never envisaged that anything like Infinity War & Endgame would happen, so who knows what lays ahead.

With the recent wranglings over Fantastic Four and Xmen and Marvel now having control of these characters, I wouldn't be surprised if the big bad of Phase 4 is Galactus or similar.

CastorTroy · 07-08-2019 11:05pm

Thanos didn't even appear until the end of Phase 1 in Avengers, if I remember correctly.

Penn · 08-08-2019 11:35am

ManOfMystery wrote: »

Thanos does seem a hard threat to top at this point, but we're still very much in post Endgame times and there's a long way to go. When I sat down to watch the first IronMan film I never envisaged that anything like Infinity War & Endgame would happen, so who knows what lays ahead.

With the recent wranglings over Fantastic Four and Xmen and Marvel now having control of these characters, I wouldn't be surprised if the big bad of Phase 4 is Galactus or similar.

I don't think there are any plans for an over-arching villain in Phase 4 at all. Perhaps we might see hints about possible ones but there are no real team-up movies planned for Phase 4, certainly no Avengers movies. By the time Phase 5 comes around with Cap.Marvel 2 and Black Panther 2, as well as likely F4 and possibly even XMen, then they might start ramping up towards the next big villain or universe-ending threat but one who might not even be encountered until Phase 6 or later.

The best way to top Thanos is to not try, but rather let things reset themselves a bit and then just proceed with the next big villain, and let the story dictate how big or serious the threat is.

sabat · 13-08-2019 2:43am

Shame on anyone over the age of 15 who thinks this is a good film.

nix · 13-08-2019 3:10am

sabat wrote: »

Shame on anyone over the age of 15 who thinks this is a good film.

I'm sorry, did you get on a roller coaster and expect Shakespeare? :rolleyes:

Brief_Lives · 13-08-2019 8:08am

sabat wrote: »

Shame on anyone over the age of 15 who thinks this is a good film.

:D:D:D:D:D:D

go back to your cartoons then buddy....

El Duda · 13-08-2019 8:11am

sabat wrote: »

Shame on anyone over the age of 15 who thinks this is a good film.

91%

Audience Score

User Ratings: 62,696

8.6/10
518,072

There must be a LOT of shameful people amongst those 580,000 people who bothered to give a rating.

Also, I think its worth me pointing out that I saw Endgame in a packed out Leicester square iMax on the day of release. People were whooping and cheering throughout. Several moments got a round of applause (Caps 'Hail Hydra' being the main moment). The Asian lady sat next to me cried multiple times. There were collective gasps during the portals scenes from almost everyone in the cinema.

I go to the cinema a lot and I've never seen a reaction like it. I imagine this is what it must've been like to see Star Wars in 1977. The hype is real.

Tazzimus · 13-08-2019 10:03am

sabat wrote: »

Shame on anyone over the age of 15 who thinks this is a good film.

2/10, poor effort

cdgalwegian · 13-08-2019 10:44am

sabat wrote: »

Shame on anyone over the age of 15 who thinks this is a good film.

Tazzimus wrote: »

2/10, poor effort

The film, or the post?

Tazzimus · 13-08-2019 11:17am

cdgalwegian wrote: »

The film, or the post?

Post.

I can live with my shame of enjoying the film, no bother

SuprSi · 13-08-2019 3:27pm

Like this

For the full effect watch it with sound on this link - it's well worth a listen.

TheBlock · 13-08-2019 3:29pm

SuprSi wrote: »

Like this

For the full effect watch it with sound on this link - it's well worth a listen.

It's also fake....

SuprSi · 13-08-2019 3:37pm

TheBlock wrote: »

It's also fake....

Really?!! Haha, had me fooled :P

micks_address · 14-08-2019 1:06pm

Picked up my 4k hdr uhd copy in best buy last nght. I know whats going to be on my tv over the weekend. I've actually watched it about 4 times now.. since the cinema on various mediums. I would say it stacks up pretty well to repeat viewings.. it sort of drags after thanos killing at the start for a while.. but once the time travel kicks in its a lot of fun.. ok its a cheap way to relive pretty much all the other movies from various perspectives but it works well and ive picked up few extra things each time i watch.. the falcons 'on your left' as they all re appear and tony last lines are still pretty epic.. his lines bookend perfectly with the end of iron man.. i still feel the Cap ending is a little off.. i know they had little choice with evans wanting out but Sam doesnt seem to be cap to me.. he has no super serum like cap had.. anyone with enough training and money could be batman.. but how to you substitute super strength? it might have worked with bucky but his cv was just far to shady to be cap america..

as far as black widow it would have been a lot easier to let hawkeye die.. i doubt he has nearly as much franchise potental as black widow and i feel like he could have probably died in ultron as they pretty much teased it at every turn.

ah well it sure be interesting to see where they go with it.

Calhoun · 14-08-2019 9:02pm

micks_address wrote: »

Picked up my 4k hdr uhd copy in best buy last nght. I know whats going to be on my tv over the weekend. I've actually watched it about 4 times now.. since the cinema on various mediums. I would say it stacks up pretty well to repeat viewings.. it sort of drags after thanos killing at the start for a while.. but once the time travel kicks in its a lot of fun.. ok its a cheap way to relive pretty much all the other movies from various perspectives but it works well and ive picked up few extra things each time i watch.. the falcons 'on your left' as they all re appear and tony last lines are still pretty epic.. his lines bookend perfectly with the end of iron man.. i still feel the Cap ending is a little off.. i know they had little choice with evans wanting out but Sam doesnt seem to be cap to me.. he has no super serum like cap had.. anyone with enough training and money could be batman.. but how to you substitute super strength? it might have worked with bucky but his cv was just far to shady to be cap america..

as far as black widow it would have been a lot easier to let hawkeye die.. i doubt he has nearly as much franchise potental as black widow and i feel like he could have probably died in ultron as they pretty much teased it at every turn.

ah well it sure be interesting to see where they go with it.

The thing with Sam is he doesn't really have the money he is an army vet, the only way it makes sense is they are depowering Captain America so as to free the spotlight for the next phase.

I think the whole black widow dying was not actually bad story telling and fit really well in with who Natasha had become. It also was good from perspective of putting a women into a meaningful role, probably one of the few in the film. In my mind it shat all over the female power assemble crap at the end.

CastorTroy · 15-08-2019 9:24am

Plus Jeremy Renner was probably cheaper to hire for a web series than Scarlett

El Duda · 15-08-2019 11:55am

The forthcoming Falcon and Winter Soldier mini-series is going to be based around Falcon being the next Cap. Public pushback, racial politics etc..

ManOfMystery · 15-08-2019 1:21pm

sabat wrote: »

Shame on anyone over the age of 15 who thinks this is a good film.

Quite surprised you didn't finish that post with "END OF." Just to finalise your assertive dominance over everyone, ya know.

SureYWouldntYa · 15-08-2019 2:41pm

micks_address wrote: »

i still feel the Cap ending is a little off.. i know they had little choice with evans wanting out but Sam doesnt seem to be cap to me.. he has no super serum like cap had.. anyone with enough training and money could be batman.. but how to you substitute super strength? it might have worked with bucky but his cv was just far to shady to be cap america..

For me, Sam works as the new Cap because he embodies the side of Cap that's always willing to fight for what he believes is right, he always had Caps back. He might not be worthy enough to weild Mjolnier but he's not far off

As for him not being super strong, his wings aren't a bad power to have and it'll be something different

Bucky couldn't be the new Cap because he's been fighting for too long on the wrong side albeit under control

Avengers: Endgame [** SPOILERS FROM POST 613 **]

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Avengers: Endgame [ SPOILERS FROM POST 613 ]