More problems with work and Principal ...

teachinggal123 · 14-09-2019 5:10pm #1

I'll try to explain this as simply as I can. I was suffering from stress/depression last year and missed a lot of time between Jan 2019 and April 2019. Every day off was covered by a sick cert, and I got back and I worked all of May 2019. I worked very, very hard all over the summer to get myself healthy. I worked on my med's and getting them right. I did a lot of counselling and mindfulness. I tried my best to get better.

I wasn't looking forward to going back at the end of Aug, but I did and (amazingly!) I was really enjoying the first 2 weeks back. Then something very serious happened to a family member. I was missing on the Friday this happened, and ended up with stress/depression the following week where my doctor told me to DEFINITELY not go to work that week, as if I did he though there would be a good chance of a relapse of my conditions and I might end up missing a lot of time.

I informed my principle of this and he was not happy. I sent him the sick cert which covered all of last week. He has been texting me (we don't have email systems) and phoning me while I've been certified off sick. He has now told me he wants me to come in early on Monday morning for a meeting. He has already said one of my exam classes have expressed their their unhappiness with missing my classes.

I have spoken to the union and friends about this and I have received advice that this is not my fault (entirely at least) and that the S+S system should kick in when I'm certified sick. A number of people also expressed surprise when I told them I'm being texted/called when I'm officially certified as sick.

I'm not sure what to do. I know all the blame for this is being shifted on to me, but I don't feel like I deserve it. I definitely don't want to be suffering and off sick ... but that is not my choice nor my fault. Any school related issues should be dealt with by the school systems, S+S, right? If I'm off longer they should get a replacement ... "their problem, not mine" is what I've been told.

I know I'm simplifying this, but I'm really upset and feeling like a confrontation on Monday morning might tip me over the edge again and I'll end up very sick and off for a long time. I've already told the principle about my health issues but he doesn't seem to care much either way. He was drafted into this job which was seen as a "problem" school a few years ago. The general impression is that he's ruling with an iron fist in order to clean us all up and get career progression (one of the most ambitions people I've met).

Any advice/opinions very welcome.

Gloomtastic! · 14-09-2019 5:34pm

Principal!

aristotle25 · 14-09-2019 5:43pm

Stand up for yourself and stand up to this person. Don’t go in early for a meeting, that’s your own time.

Tell this person not to be texting you and ringing you frequently.

Deal with him professionally and civilly but make sure you stand up for yourself.

teachinggal123 · 14-09-2019 5:47pm

aristotle25 wrote: »

Stand up for yourself and stand up to this person. Don’t go in early for a meeting, that’s your own time.

Tell this person not to be texting you and ringing you frequently.

Deal with him professionally and civilly but make sure you stand up for yourself.

Yes that’s good advice. I did lay down a bit in May because I was so battered and low.

The problem is that he is clever. He knows how to bully without being a bully (if that makes sense). He knows how to make my life miserable.

But I will stand up strong on Monday.

Treppen · 14-09-2019 5:52pm

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Principal!

Can't believe morons would actually thanks this.

But anyway op your principal sounds like an idiot. I have a feeling if certain other teachers were out he wouldn't be putting it on them about letting their students down. Like what the f does he expect you to do. If he can't deal with employees being sick then he ain't a boss.

Whatever happens don't ever agree to a meeting without someone present and an indication as to what it's about beforehand. If you have to meet some At the very least record the meeting on your phone and take notes.

Sometimes you might be better off with legal advice or a solicitors letter if he keeps harassing you rather than waiting for union help. But your solicitor will ask you for evidence like a diary or emails etc.

GarIT · 14-09-2019 6:04pm

Treppen wrote: »

Can't believe morons would actually thanks this.

Why? I wouldn't want someone like that teaching my kids.

teachinggal123 · 14-09-2019 6:12pm

GarIT wrote: »

Why? I wouldn't want someone like that teaching my kids.

When you are stressed and suffering from depression you do the silliest things.

Hopefully that won’t ever happen to you.

bobbyss · 14-09-2019 6:14pm

The only thing that really matters here is your health. It is unfortunate that your students may be concerned about exams and so on but that is of secondary importance. The idea of the Principal contacting you when you are out is not professional. Perhaps an odd communication but nothing more. (Am presuming part of this communication has been to enquire on your health and how you are doing?)

I wouldn't necessarily be put out by an early meeting. We all do things out of hours. Let it be known you are aware of your rights. Don't apologise for being sick.

Do take the spelling advice.

spurious · 14-09-2019 8:29pm

Mod: This forum is not a spelling test. Neither is it a place where people are called 'morons'. Let's rein it in.

OP, involve your union. This will not be the first example of his management style.
If you are sick, you are sick. He has no business ringing you. He also has no business knowing the nature of your illness, but if I read you correctly he already knows?

teachinggal123 · 14-09-2019 8:45pm

spurious wrote: »

Mod: This forum is not a spelling test. Neither is it a place where people are called 'morons'. Let's rein it in.

OP, involve your union. This will not be the first example of his management style.
If you are sick, you are sick. He has no business ringing you. He also has no business knowing the nature of your illness, but if I read you correctly he already knows?

Yes he knows. I discussed this at length with him last year in an effort to keep him informed and be as honest as possible. Looks like that was a mistake as this has been used against me.

am_zarathustra · 14-09-2019 8:46pm

Firstly, this is a terrible situation and no one should be treated in this manner when they are sick, be the ailment physical or mental.

Secondly, if I was in this situation I would be wary about going to a meeting alone. You have mentioned you are feeling fragile and a principal/principle (don't mind the spelling Nazis) may be aggressive if you are alone given their form. Would you have someone on staff you trust you could ask to sit in, ideally the union rep?

Lastly, if the meeting doesn't go well you should really consider the union. Sometimes the only way to deal with a bully is head on. Unfortunately people don't always choose to use their power as carefully as they should.

Again I'm sorry you are going through this and I hope you feel better! Mind yourself

punisher5112 · 14-09-2019 8:49pm

As above contact your union...

Do not go alone.....

2011abc · 14-09-2019 10:03pm

Not the first time I’ve heard of a story like this .Some principals really are beneath contempt .

teachinggal123 · 14-09-2019 10:11pm

I’m reluctant to involve the union to be honest. That would be a red rag to a bull and would definitely escalate things to the next level. This means I would have EVERYTHING possible used against me. There have already been references to this where he has referred to me being discussed by the SMT in my ETB.
This was in relation to a few mistakes I made with student corrections and assessment last May after getting back to work. I (very stupidly) corrected work when I was out sick after he asked me to and made some minor enough mistakes that were picked up in IV. I’ll be hammered with this if I go “official”.

Another thing to mention is that all of this is very intimidating and difficult to battle against when I’m in such a fragile mental state. In the past I just agreed with everything he said to me ... I just wanted the meeting to be over as quickly as possible so that I could go and cry in my car or the nearest quiet corner (I'm serious btw).

punisher5112 · 14-09-2019 10:27pm

Believe me, do not go alone... You are already telling us you see red flags.....

You need to use the union that's what they're there for.

bobbyss · 14-09-2019 10:34pm

If you are accompanied at the meeting and the meeting is early next Monday morning(?) it gives no chance to inform Principal, out of respect, that you willl not be alone. He in turn will certainly want someone to accompany him as his witness. (In stressful situations your memory of what was said plays tricks) And if it's early the person he wants may not be around. Maybe he'll postpone it then. Gives you time to think.

punisher5112 · 14-09-2019 10:38pm

bobbyss wrote: »

If you are accompanied at the meeting and the meeting is early next Monday morning(?) it gives no chance to inform Principal, out of respect, that you willl not be alone. He in turn will certainly want someone to accompany him as his witness. (In stressful situations your memory of what was said plays tricks) And if it's early the person he wants may not be around. Maybe he'll postpone it then. Gives you time to think.

Well it's funny how I had exact this without warning by the other side, guy ended up in managemebt after taking notes for the other gobsheen.... Made up some amount of sh1te

deiseindublin · 14-09-2019 11:14pm

teachinggal123 wrote: »

This was in relation to a few mistakes I made with student corrections and assessment last May after getting back to work. I (very stupidly) corrected work when I was out sick after he asked me to and made some minor enough mistakes that were picked up in IV. I’ll be hammered with this if I go “official”.

Please don't think like this, the whole point of the IV process is to find mistakes and act on them. Every centre has stuff that's uncovered and rectified before results are finalised. He can't hammer you on them.

Maybe look at IV and EV reports for your centre going back a few sessions. I bet it will reassure you that we all make mistakes, and when the EV comes in, they are happy with the standard.

Mind yourself, and maybe if you don't want to bring a union rep, bring a reliable staff member or friend in as a witness, to help you remember exactly what was discussed and decided.

spurious · 14-09-2019 11:17pm

It doesn't have to be a union rep you bring in with you, but bring a witness and take notes.

Once it goes beyond the initial stage of a grievance, you do not have to be present for discussions. The union, or your representative(s) handle it for you.

If the Principal pressurised you to do work when you were ill and you made mistakes doing it, that is HIS fault. A medical professional had certified you as not fit to be working and then when he made you do some work, you made errors. Absolutely not an issue and he can stop his not very veiled threats about discussing you with anyone in the ETB too.

TheDriver · 15-09-2019 10:12am

teachinggal123 wrote: »

I'll try to explain this as simply as I can. I was suffering from stress/depression last year and missed a lot of time between Jan 2019 and April 2019. Every day off was covered by a sick cert, and I got back and I worked all of May 2019. I worked very, very hard all over the summer to get myself healthy. I worked on my med's and getting them right. I did a lot of counselling and mindfulness. I tried my best to get better.

I wasn't looking forward to going back at the end of Aug, but I did and (amazingly!) I was really enjoying the first 2 weeks back. Then something very serious happened to a family member. I was missing on the Friday this happened, and ended up with stress/depression the following week where my doctor told me to DEFINITELY not go to work that week, as if I did he though there would be a good chance of a relapse of my conditions and I might end up missing a lot of time.

I informed my principle of this and he was not happy. I sent him the sick cert which covered all of last week. He has been texting me (we don't have email systems) and phoning me while I've been certified off sick. He has now told me he wants me to come in early on Monday morning for a meeting. He has already said one of my exam classes have expressed their their unhappiness with missing my classes.

I have spoken to the union and friends about this and I have received advice that this is not my fault (entirely at least) and that the S+S system should kick in when I'm certified sick. A number of people also expressed surprise when I told them I'm being texted/called when I'm officially certified as sick.

I'm not sure what to do. I know all the blame for this is being shifted on to me, but I don't feel like I deserve it. I definitely don't want to be suffering and off sick ... but that is not my choice nor my fault. Any school related issues should be dealt with by the school systems, S+S, right? If I'm off longer they should get a replacement ... "their problem, not mine" is what I've been told.

I know I'm simplifying this, but I'm really upset and feeling like a confrontation on Monday morning might tip me over the edge again and I'll end up very sick and off for a long time. I've already told the principle about my health issues but he doesn't seem to care much either way. He was drafted into this job which was seen as a "problem" school a few years ago. The general impression is that he's ruling with an iron fist in order to clean us all up and get career progression (one of the most ambitions people I've met).

Any advice/opinions very welcome.

A few points to clarify
a) I assume you're secondary?
b) s&s would not kick in but rather getting a substitute teacher. There isn't a great availability at present which leads me to c)
c) if you have exam classes, it can be difficult if the teacher is out sick frequently. They may be looking for clarification and make changes to the timetable to minisimise effect on students
d) I have contacted staff whilst out sick for many reasons as you need to plan and ascertain when they'll be back. But you wouldn't be rude or question unnecessarily.

P2C · 15-09-2019 10:57am

You should read your sick policy for the ETB or school. Everything should be laid out in relation to your non attendance and the rules in relation to same. Once you have adhered to that policy I would not worry. I would be armed with that knowledge for the meeting and if things are getting out of hand I would revert to the policy.

I would take a screenshot of any texts or communication received (call log) from the principal while out on sick. They are entitled to contact within reason.

I would go to the meeting and I would take a listening approach. I wouldn’t overly engage and if pushed for a response say you need time to think. For all you know the principal could be there to support you in the morning. It is only speculation about what could happen.

The best thing that could happen is he breaches the schools own policy and then and only then would I get a third party involved. It is my experience that lots of employers make silly mistakes in relation to disciplining staff that will come back to haunt them. In other words they breach there own policies. My wife is a teacher and she worked under some horrendous principals before securing a CID in a lovely school

Aquals · 17-09-2019 12:58pm

I wish you the best of luck with this OP - it sounds horrendous to have to deal with! I have seen situations like this before and I would echo what others have said here. You should involve the union, or at least the union shop steward in your school.

Bobtheman · 19-09-2019 3:44pm

teachinggal123 wrote: »

I’m reluctant to involve the union to be honest. That would be a red rag to a bull and would definitely escalate things to the next level. This means I would have EVERYTHING possible used against me. There have already been references to this where he has referred to me being discussed by the SMT in my ETB.
This was in relation to a few mistakes I made with student corrections and assessment last May after getting back to work. I (very stupidly) corrected work when I was out sick after he asked me to and made some minor enough mistakes that were picked up in IV. I’ll be hammered with this if I go “official”.

Another thing to mention is that all of this is very intimidating and difficult to battle against when I’m in such a fragile mental state. In the past I just agreed with everything he said to me ... I just wanted the meeting to be over as quickly as possible so that I could go and cry in my car or the nearest quiet corner (I'm serious btw).

You can ask a colleague to go in with you. Doesnt have to be a union rep.
Thats straightforward enough. Follow union advice.
Create a paper trail-e mail your Principal and ask him not to contact you while you are out.
If he ha health concerns about you-suggest he send you to Occupational health service(Med mark)
Go to a counselor and chart a way forward.
I would delay the meeting until you have a colleague ready to go in with you.

SligoBrewer · 19-09-2019 11:11pm

OP, talk to your union. This is why you pay your dues.

More problems with work and Principal ...

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