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Criminal records

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  • 16-09-2019 4:59pm
    #1
    Garlinge
    Registered Users Posts: 591 ✭✭✭


    By chance I found a newspaper item about a relative who was before courts in Dublin in 1913. He was remanded to appear at another courrt and had previously appeared in court. I know there are court records in NAI... big sets of books in the main reading room. How easy is it to trace a person there? I could not find any further newspaper accounts.


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    #2
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Findmypast has digitised the prison records that are in the NAI. I think Familysearch also has indexes but then leads you to FMP for images.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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    #3
    Garlinge
    Registered Users Posts: 591 ✭✭✭Garlinge


    With exact dates is it possible to see full records or were they victim of 1922 destruction?. This would have been a Dublin court 1913


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    #4
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    If the person went to prison, then there should be a record. It will give a physical description, address, next of kin, details of crime/punishment.

    These records were not stored in the Four Courts.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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    #5
    Garlinge
    Registered Users Posts: 591 ✭✭✭Garlinge


    Thanks, so off to NAI. Just wish it was open at weekend....:)


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    #6
    pinkypinky
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,616 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Be cheaper to pay for a month's subscription to Findmypast...which is always open.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



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    #7
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    Garlinge wrote: »
    With exact dates is it possible to see full records or were they victim of 1922 destruction?. This would have been a Dublin court 1913

    Prisoner records will not give you ‘records’ on the trial, just the crime and the conviction: If there was no conviction there will be no record, unless the prisoner was remanded in custody.

    Not all courts are ‘Courts of Record’ so you probably will be searching in vain for trial records Do not confuse the Petty Sessions Registers with what occurred in other courts, most of which went unrecorded. The Petty Sessions operated as the lowest level of court, providing summary justice for minor crimes equivalent to the District court in today’s system. In Dublin of 1913 the equivalent of the Petty Sessions was the Dublin Metropolitan Police Court. Those records (+/- same as Petty Session records) are in UCD and have been digitized and are free, online HERE but there are big gaps.

    Petty Sessions records are very basic, names of Complainant, Defendant, description of complaint, witnesses and the outcome. They were ruled by JPs who usually were Landlords/Ascendancy who were ‘supervised’ by Resident Magistrates although by the late 1800’s there were also stipendiary magistrates (so-called because they were paid/received a stipend).

    If a crime was serious it would be referred to the next ‘Quarter Sessions’ or the next ‘Assizes’ – these would be +/- like the Circuit and High Courts of today. There are no records for them – I’ve researched a mid-1800's murder trial at one of the Assizes and depended on newspaper reports – the NAI had a few very basic records, just enough to confirm what occurred and also (in the Chief Secretary’s Papers) had the plea for clemency and response. I also was lucky as one of the barristers gave some detail in a published memoir.

    The NAI has a guide to what they have in court records HERE


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    #8
    Garlinge
    Registered Users Posts: 591 ✭✭✭Garlinge


    Excellent summary there Pedro, many thanks.

    I have progressed a bit and have found the police and prison records on Findmypast and also that some of same are in UCD. I might get a better date from same to finetune looking at the newspaper reports.

    Interesting find and explains perhaps why he was not around for WW1 or for his only brother's wedding in 1918 where I would have expected him to have been a witness. Poignant twist to grief of his widowed mother who lost her two other sons 1915 and 1919.


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