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Now Ye're Talking - To A Man With 2 Mothers

  • 20-01-2015 3:47pm
    #1
    Dav
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,840 ✭✭✭


    It's a topical one this week folks, and I realise the title might seem silly. I'd like you to meet Sonics2k who's a man in his 30s who was raised by 2 mammies :) His parents are 2 ladies in a relationship for years - I don't know how long, I'm sure he'll be able to answer that himself if he chooses to. Our minister for health has, as I'm sure most of you are aware, spoken about being a gay man this weekend and it seems like the stir that kicked off with Panti's Noble Call last year has moved up a gear with a lot of eyes looking towards the Marriage Equality referendum later this year.

    One of the concerns people have about the upcoming referendum concerns parenting, so why not hear from someone for whom that's been a reality for a long time?


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Comments

  • #2
    Neyite
    Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    Hi Sonic!

    I'll go with the most obvious argument that people present with regard to SSM. That the children will experience bullying for having gay parents. Have you encountered bullying/ exclusion as a child because of this?


  • #3
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Sonic thanks for putting yourself forward.

    Can I ask if you know your dad and if he is in your life at all?


  • #4
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    30 Years is a good cross section of time. I imagine - like my own situation - the majority of people do not even cop your dynamic when you are out in the public world - but on those occasions when it does - have you noticed a change in reaction over time? My own experience of the change in attitudes in Ireland - where I was actually cognizant a change might be happening - is only 5 years - so perhaps you have a better over view of a change over time in this.


  • #5
    dulpit
    Registered Users Posts: 10,221 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    Hey, interesting topic!

    Couple of questions:
    1 - Did you find that children or other adults were more opinionated towards your upbringing when you were small?
    2 - How do you differentiate between your parents? Is one mum and the other mam? Or something else?
    3 - Have you found that positive perception towards gay couples has grown noticeably in the last few years?
    4 - Did you parents ever sit you down and explain to you that their relationship is a little bit different to others? I would assume that growing up you would have not noticed anything, but when you start school I would expect people to talk, just curious if your parents sat you down or prepped you, or was it even needed?
    5 - I pity your prospective wife/husband - 2 mothers-in-law! :pac:


  • #6
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Do your mums want to get married? What would it mean for your family if that were possible?


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  • #7
    floggg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    Where there ever any situations or issues where you felt the lack of a male presence was a disadvantage?

    If so how did you over come them?


  • #8
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,237 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    (Quick edit)

    I will do my very best to answer this topic as openly and candidly as possible. Really folks, even if you don't support SSM because of a concern about their kids, please ask me and I'll try my best to answer you.

    Neyite wrote: »
    Hi Sonic!

    I'll go with the most obvious argument that people present with regard to SSM. That the children will experience bullying for having gay parents. Have you encountered bullying/ exclusion as a child because of this?

    Hi Neyite!

    That would be the most common claim, so I'll answer this as best as I can.

    I was once or twice "bullied" for having two mothers, but it was really more of a "haha you have two mums" comment when I was about 9 years old. That was basically it. Frankly I was bullied more for having an English accent (I was born in London and moved home to Ireland when I was 9). I was bullied a little bit for being a dork too.

    Honestly speaking, I was bullied a lot less than any overweight or ginger kid in my schools. I was never excluded from a group because of my parents sexuality.

    Kids are jerks, we all know this. Kids are worse than grown ups when it comes to being really mean, and they'll focus on anything to wind up another kid.
    eviltwin wrote: »
    Sonic thanks for putting yourself forward.

    Can I ask if you know your dad and if he is in your life at all?

    Absolutely fair question. In a word, no. I've never met him, but my parents told me all his details when I was about 12 or so and said if I wanted to track him down, that would be fine.

    I've never really looked into it, from what my parents have told me, I do look very similar to him and that's all I need or care about.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    30 Years is a good cross section of time. I imagine - like my own situation - the majority of people do not even cop your dynamic when you are out in the public world - but on those occasions when it does - have you noticed a change in reaction over time? My own experience of the change in attitudes in Ireland - where I was actually cognizant a change might be happening - is only 5 years - so perhaps you have a better over view of a change over time in this.

    Uh, this is actually a strange one. As a child and with other kids, no-one really cared about it. None of my friends have ever cared as it's never affected them, just like my friends parents had no real effect on me.
    As a teenager we lived in quite a few places, spending time in Boston and then Sydney and Brisbane. In each case no-one cared about their sexuality at all.

    Occasionally a person of an older generation (usually a school counselor or similar) would ask if my parents being gay impacted my life and were sometimes surprised when I said no.

    As an adult, I have found the very vast majority of people frankly don't care. Some are a bit bewildered for about a minute and then don't care anymore.


  • #9
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,237 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Do your mums want to get married? What would it mean for your family if that were possible?

    Well truthfully speaking, my "parents" have separated a good while ago, but are now both in long term relationships.

    However, I do know they have no real interest in getting "married" as it were. They do believe of course that they should have the right to be married if they wish to do so.
    floggg wrote: »
    Where there ever any situations or issues where you felt the lack of a male presence was a disadvantage?

    If so how did you over come them?

    Um, I guess maybe when I started to shave? My mother did teach me the basics, and frankly did a better job than my neighbours father!
    But I started growing a glorious beard many years ago and hate to be clean shaven, aside from that, I truthfully can't think of any time that I needed a male presence over either of my parents.
    My biological mother played Rugby for Munster and Ireland, and even taught me the basics of Karate when I was a kid. I ended up taking a big interest in both in my teens thanks to that.


  • #10
    gk5000
    Registered Users Posts: 847 ✭✭✭gk5000


    Hello Sonics2k

    Can I go straight to the point:
    - Would you advocate two gay parents?
    - two gay women?
    - two gay men?

    Should society encourage or discourage any of the above?


  • #11
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,237 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    dulpit wrote: »
    Hey, interesting topic!

    Couple of questions:
    1 - Did you find that children or other adults were more opinionated towards your upbringing when you were small?
    2 - How do you differentiate between your parents? Is one mum and the other mam? Or something else?
    3 - Have you found that positive perception towards gay couples has grown noticeably in the last few years?
    4 - Did you parents ever sit you down and explain to you that their relationship is a little bit different to others? I would assume that growing up you would have not noticed anything, but when you start school I would expect people to talk, just curious if your parents sat you down or prepped you, or was it even needed?
    5 - I pity your prospective wife/husband - 2 mothers-in-law! :pac:

    Hey Dulpit, took a few more minutes to answer yours as it was a bit longer.

    1. In primary school, when I first moved to Ireland, I did have one teacher who didn't "approve" of it, and did try to actively make learning a bit harder for me. But thankfully I was moved out of that school and I believe he got fired later for being abusive towards students, so I've always reckoned he was just a bit of a bellend really!
    2. I actually just call them by their names, always have done. I also call my aunts and uncles by their names, even my grandmother often gets called by her first name.
    3. Overall yes. May be just because I grew up with this generation and so I've never really experience direct or real homophobia from people of my own generation. There are still homophobes out there of course, but I've found it has typically gotten better over the years. At least on the outside, there's a still a bit of backdoor (no pun I swear) talking going on, especially at times like this.
    5. She's actually well up for it, she gets on great with both of them. Which I find terrifying...

    Answering 4 separately because this has always amused me.

    Yes, when I was about 7 or 8 my parents did sit down with me and did the whole birds and bees thing and told me how they were gay and some people were straight. I believe my answer was roughly along the lines of "Okay, can I go back out and play now?"

    My point here is that most kids don't actually -care- about their parents sexuality, it's a learned thing that comes from outside influences. Because I was raised by a gay couple, there was nothing odd to me. And like my friends, I did not care about their parents sexuality. I was too busy climbing trees and throwing snails at girls.


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  • #12
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,237 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    gk5000 wrote: »
    Hello Sonics2k

    Can I go straight to the point:
    - Would you advocate two gay parents?
    - two gay women?
    - two gay men?

    Should society encourage or discourage any of the above?

    Two gay men, or two gay women. It does not matter as long as they put their love and lives into raising their children to be smart and good people.

    Society should encourage gay marriage no more and no less than straight marriage. There is no difference between the love two men feel for each other and the love I feel for my own fiancée.


  • #13
    gk5000
    Registered Users Posts: 847 ✭✭✭gk5000


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    Two gay men, or two gay women. It does not matter as long as they put their love and lives into raising their children to be smart and good people.

    Society should encourage gay marriage no more and no less than straight marriage. There is no difference between the love two men feel for each other and the love I feel for my own fiancée.
    Thanks for that.

    But, women can easily have children, but men obviously can't.

    So what about the hoops, surrogacy etc. which two men must do to achieve parenthood?


  • #14
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,237 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    gk5000 wrote: »
    Thanks for that.

    But, women can easily have children, but men obviously can't.

    So what about the hoops, surrogacy etc. which two men must do to achieve parenthood?

    Well Gay men and women cab already adopt as a single parent, but not as a couple. My opinion is that a gay couple should have the exact same criteria when it comes to adoption as a straight couple.
    If a gay male couple go through all the same things as a straight couple to adopt a child, why should they be denied?
    The concern should not be on their sexuality, but rather how good a home they will give a child, just like a straight couple.


  • #15
    strobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    Hey Sonic, just to follow up on the question on your father. Are you aware of the circumstances of how he came to be your father? As in, via registered sperm donation, or was it a private arrangement (as a favour for a friend, or?), or had he been intimate or involved in a relationship of any sort with your birth mother, etc?


  • #16
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,237 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    strobe wrote: »
    Hey Sonic, just to follow up on the question on your father. Are you aware of the circumstances of how he came to be your father? As in, via registered sperm donation, or was it a private arrangement (as a favour for a friend, or?), or had he been intimate or involved in a relationship of any sort with your birth mother, etc?

    He was actually a very close friend of my biological mother. She'd asked him to be the father, frankly I never wanted to ask the nitty gritty details of how it was done!

    Bit gross!


  • #17
    GLaDOS
    Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,196 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    Did your non-biological mother have any rights to you as a parent? Say the worst happened and your biological mother had died, would she still have had the right to raise you?

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



  • #18
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,237 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    No. 1 One Direction Fan wrote: »
    Did your non-biological mother have any rights to you as a parent? Say the worst happened and your biological mother had died, would she still have had the right to raise you?

    A very good question, and one that really should be getting asked a lot more.

    From any legal stand point, my "other" mother had no legal right to raise me in the event my biological mother died. In the eyes of the law, she was non-existent.

    What this means is that should she have passed away when I was a child, I could have been forced to live with my grandmother. Now, don't get me wrong, my nan is not even slightly a bad relative, but she wasn't one of my parents.


  • #19
    gk5000
    Registered Users Posts: 847 ✭✭✭gk5000


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    Well Gay men and women cab already adopt as a single parent, but not as a couple. My opinion is that a gay couple should have the exact same criteria when it comes to adoption as a straight couple.
    If a gay male couple go through all the same things as a straight couple to adopt a child, why should they be denied?
    The concern should not be on their sexuality, but rather how good a home they will give a child, just like a straight couple.
    How about gay men using surrogacy to become parents?


  • #20
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,237 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    gk5000 wrote: »
    How about gay men using surrogacy to become parents?

    I have absolutely no issue with it, if they are able to find a willing woman to carry the child, then so be it. Same as with a straight couple.

    I'm off to get a few hours sleep, anymore questions and I'll be back in the morning! 5 am wake ups are a scary thing!


  • #21
    sweetie
    Registered Users Posts: 9,791 ✭✭✭sweetie


    hi there Sonic,
    Do you feel any closer to your biological mum and do you know how did they choose who was getting pregnant?


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  • #22
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    A very good question, and one that really should be getting asked a lot more.

    From any legal stand point, my "other" mother had no legal right to raise me in the event my biological mother died. In the eyes of the law, she was non-existent.

    What this means is that should she have passed away when I was a child, I could have been forced to live with my grandmother. Now, don't get me wrong, my nan is not even slightly a bad relative, but she wasn't one of my parents.

    Just to follow on from that now your an adult where do you stand as your non bio mums next of kin? Are you legally recognized as her immediate family?


  • #23
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,237 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    sweetie wrote: »
    hi there Sonic,
    Do you feel any closer to your biological mum and do you know how did they choose who was getting pregnant?

    Fair enough. I'd be closer to my biological mother, mostly down to the fact I spent longer with her and we'd get a long a bit better. Pretty much the same as any other family.
    eviltwin wrote: »
    Just to follow on from that now your an adult where do you stand as your non bio mums next of kin? Are you legally recognized as her immediate family?

    Legally speaking, again not at all. Because the state never legally recognised the relationship, we're basically ninjas in the eyes of the law. Not quite there!


  • #24
    floggg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    Well truthfully speaking, my "parents" have separated a good while ago, but are now both in long term relationships.

    However, I do know they have no real interest in getting "married" as it were. They do believe of course that they should have the right to be married if they wish to do so.



    Um, I guess maybe when I started to shave? My mother did teach me the basics, and frankly did a better job than my neighbours father!
    But I started growing a glorious beard many years ago and hate to be clean shaven, aside from that, I truthfully can't think of any time that I needed a male presence over either of my parents.
    My biological mother played Rugby for Munster and Ireland, and even taught me the basics of Karate when I was a kid. I ended up taking a big interest in both in my teens thanks to that.

    Meh. I don't think you missed out on anything so. My dad never thought me anything about shaving and had to learn to do it all by myself.

    Not that its that difficult or anything.


  • #25
    floggg
    Registered Users Posts: 5,820 ✭✭✭floggg


    Sonics2k wrote: »
    A very good question, and one that really should be getting asked a lot more.

    From any legal stand point, my "other" mother had no legal right to raise me in the event my biological mother died. In the eyes of the law, she was non-existent.

    What this means is that should she have passed away when I was a child, I could have been forced to live with my grandmother. Now, don't get me wrong, my nan is not even slightly a bad relative, but she wasn't one of my parents.

    Has that ever caused any issues for you or your parents? Whether in terms of school, doctors etc or otherwise?


  • #26
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,237 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    floggg wrote: »
    Has that ever caused any issues for you or your parents? Whether in terms of school, doctors etc or otherwise?

    Nothing too big, or at least anything I knew of. I think in the rare events that either parent brought me to the hospital they just assumed they were my mother and went with it. Schools were always very open to the idea as well actually, I believe they were just informed of my parents when I joined like other kids did.

    That was one aspect that was nothing special.


  • #27
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Do you ever find that people's expectations of you change when they discover your circumstances, e.g. when they find out you've two mothers, they're surprised you're not more effeminate or something?


  • #28
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    Might be wrong in this so kick me if I am - but I think you missed one question above which I was curious at seeing the answer to myself - which was whether you have any knowledge of the decision process related to which one of your parents was to be the one to become pregnant.

    I know from communicating with many people in similar family structures - that the selection almost made itself - down to who was the healthiest - the youngest or who had the career more amenable to a pregnancy - and so forth. But many others base the decisions on a genuine drive to at some time be pregnant - or one of the women feeling more like they were in a "male" role. Actually the basis for the decisions seem to be sometimes as varied as the number of people you ask - and common themes are hard to find. In our own family we decided 4 children with the older of the two girls having the first two - and the younger holding out on having her two until she is over 30.


  • #29
    Big Nasty
    Registered Users Posts: 22,080 ✭✭✭✭Big Nasty


    Fair play for doing this Sonic.

    Bit of a touchy one maybe but here goes:

    Are you gay or straight yourself and do you think growing up with two women affected your sexuality / personality different to growing up in a conventional family?


  • #30
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,237 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    seamus wrote: »
    Do you ever find that people's expectations of you change when they discover your circumstances, e.g. when they find out you've two mothers, they're surprised you're not more effeminate or something?
    Big Nasty wrote: »
    Fair play for doing this Sonic.

    Bit of a touchy one maybe but here goes:

    Are you gay or straight yourself and do you think growing up with two women affected your sexuality / personality different to growing up in a conventional family?


    Sorry for the delay folks, very busy day at work and I hate to post from my phone!
    I'll answer both of these together as they are quite similar.

    I can only think of one occasion where I was outright asked if my parents being gay made me gay, this was by my Secondary School councillor. The look on my face just sank and I had to stop myself from laughing in her face.

    For the record, I am straight, have two children and am engaged. I do know gay children of gay couples, but probably less than gay kids of straight couples.

    I wouldn't exactly define myself as a bloke, not by any measure, but I'd be well into a good few sports, Rugby and Ice Hockey are the mains, Top Gear and a manly love for boobies (:P) and certainly have a good few man skills too, all of which taught to me by my parents, may be with the exception of the boobies, but I guess that may work too!

    Personality wise, I guess the major impact is that I have never, even as a child or teenager, based an opinion on someone based on race/gender/religion. I tend to dislike people as a whole, but that's because I'm generally grumpy.
    I'd say I'm an extremely liberal person for the most part, I base an opinion on a person on actions, rather than skin or even their opinion of gay marriage. I may disagree with a homophobe, but I will defend their right to hold that opinion, and will equally argue with them should they tell me gay people can't marry.

    With that said, I also have a dark humour, I will joke and mock anyone and anything (including gay jokes) because I try not to take offense by things, rather look for the humour. I truly think the world in general would be better if we all did that.


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  • #31
    Sonics2k
    Registered Users Posts: 8,237 ✭✭✭Sonics2k


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Might be wrong in this so kick me if I am - but I think you missed one question above which I was curious at seeing the answer to myself - which was whether you have any knowledge of the decision process related to which one of your parents was to be the one to become pregnant.

    I know from communicating with many people in similar family structures - that the selection almost made itself - down to who was the healthiest - the youngest or who had the career more amenable to a pregnancy - and so forth. But many others base the decisions on a genuine drive to at some time be pregnant - or one of the women feeling more like they were in a "male" role. Actually the basis for the decisions seem to be sometimes as varied as the number of people you ask - and common themes are hard to find. In our own family we decided 4 children with the older of the two girls having the first two - and the younger holding out on having her two until she is over 30.

    Sonics2k wrote: »
    He was actually a very close friend of my biological mother. She'd asked him to be the father, frankly I never wanted to ask the nitty gritty details of how it was done!

    Bit gross!

    I'd answered this at the top of page two, but I'll expand on it some more, as I did breeze over it a bit.

    My father was a very good friend of my biological mother, and a gay man himself. From what I know, I get my looks from him (the dashing man) and still have a photo of him from the early 80's. My mother asked him if he'd be willing to be my father, and said yes. I believe it took a few months to work it all out, but then it was done.

    It was agreed at the time he would have no direct influence on my life, but that I would be given his contact details should I ever wish to track him down.
    I have those details, but never really felt the need to do so.

    Hope that answers your question!


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