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Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VIII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

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  • #7232
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 12,956 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    It'll be interesting to see if Biden commits to abolishing presidential pardons.


  • #7233
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,935 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    It'll be interesting to see if Biden commits to abolishing presidential pardons.

    Is it within his power to do so?

    Is it not in the constitution?


    I don't have a problem with the concept of a Presidential Pardon - They do have a place , but the decision should not be made by the President alone.

    The President can sign it , but the decision should come from some kind of independent review body.


  • #7234
    ZeroThreat
    Registered Users Posts: 2,180 ✭✭✭ZeroThreat


    I wonder if Trump pardons Ghislaine Maxwell, or is that even legally possible?


  • #7235
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 12,956 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    Is it within his power to do so?

    Is it not in the constitution?


    I don't have a problem with the concept of a Presidential Pardon - They do have a place , but the decision should not be made by the President alone.

    The President can sign it , but the decision should come from some kind of independent review body.


    Well that would dilute the power and in effect would abolish the privilege. It's unlikely he'll commit to any changes and the pardon will continue to get abused.


  • #7236
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,935 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    Well that would dilute the power and in effect would abolish the privilege. It's unlikely he'll commit to any changes and the pardon will continue to get abused.

    As I asked in my previous post - Is it in his power to change it?

    It doesn't look like it is , it's part of Article 2 of the Constitution.

    So Biden could request a change but it requires a 2/3rd Majority in both houses of Congress and approval by 2/3rds of the States

    Hard to see that being successful.


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  • #7237
    hotmail.com
    Registered Users Posts: 12,956 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    As I asked in my previous post - Is it in his power to change it?

    It doesn't look like it is , it's part of Article 2 of the Constitution.

    So Biden could request a change but it requires a 2/3rd Majority in both houses of Congress and approval by 2/3rds of the States

    Hard to see that being successful.


    Perhaps he'll commit not to use it then.


  • #7238
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,935 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    Perhaps he'll commit not to use it then.

    It's not the use that's the problem , it's the abuse.

    Trump has used it less than any other President for over 100 years , but he has taken the veritable pi$$ with it when he has used it.

    Arpaio , Dinesh d'Sousa and now Flynn with a whole bunch more coming before January 20th.

    A simple change that Biden could make would be to publish the reports from the "Office of the Pardon Attorney" who are the group supposed to review all Pardon requests and to provide a "non binding" recommendation to the President.

    That way at least you could see definitively which Pardons did not meet basic levels of reasonableness.


  • #7239
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,548 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    Perhaps he'll commit not to use it then.

    is this the new measure biden by metrics we never measured trump by??


  • #7240
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,055 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    A simple change that Biden could make would be to publish the reports...

    But as seen from Trump and his taxes, just because it's what everyone else has done means nothing if the next person decides not to bother. Even if things are set out clearly in the existing rules (such as the presidents business can't profit from them being president) if the next person decides to just ignore the rules then nobody is prepared to do anything about it.


  • #7241
    pixelburp
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 35,941 CMod ✭✭✭✭pixelburp


    listermint wrote: »
    One thing im very much looking forward to with the demise of trump is the end of the absolute mind meltingly stupid nicknames for all asunder that oppose him.

    You know, I hear what you mean. There have been so many more egregious examples of Trump's actions worth chastising but his infantile pettiness, coupled with his presentation of textbook Dunning-Kruger, often caused the biggest eye rolls. I think it was the knowledge he believed his snark to be peak witticisms, probably bolstered by sycophants like Stephen Miller claiming to the world with a straight face Trump was a master orator.


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  • #7242
    froog
    Registered Users Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭froog


    Pardoning himself won't protect him from state cases as far as i know, which were always the real danger for him. I believe theres quite a few in new york waiting for him.


  • #7243
    froog
    Registered Users Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭froog


    ZeroThreat wrote: »
    I wonder if Trump pardons Ghislaine Maxwell, or is that even legally possible?

    Now that would be real interesting.


  • #7244
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,393 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    froog wrote: »
    Pardoning himself won't protect him from state cases as far as i know, which were always the real danger for him. I believe theres quite a few in new york waiting for him.

    Just read this tweet and I'm wondering would this be possible for trump to pull off?

    https://twitter.com/CaslerNoel/status/1331778652489572354?s=19


  • #7245
    aloyisious
    Registered Users Posts: 11,536 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    astrofool wrote: »
    I imagine nothing will happen until Barr is gone and a new AG is installed.

    Speaking of Barr, the DOJ is appealing to the USSC the decision of another court that it cant stand-in and take over defence of the rape case a woman took against Trump. The DOJ is trying to use [again] the excuse that it is acting in defence of the presidents power to work without having to look to other matters.


  • #7246
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,103 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    Perhaps he'll commit not to use it then.

    Amazing how Trump's abuse of his power to pardon, you manage to twist into something to attack Biden with.


  • #7247
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,359 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    It occurs to me that everyone Trump has pardoned, or will pardon, probably has serious dirt on him. So Ghislaine Maxwell could well be next.


  • #7248
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,631 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    It occurs to me that everyone Trump has pardoned, or will pardon, probably has serious dirt on him. So Ghislaine Maxwell could well be next.


    If he does it will basically be an admission of guilt as regards the suspected Epstein shanigans


  • #7249
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,359 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    VinLieger wrote: »
    If he does it will basically be an admission of guilt as regards the suspected Epstein shanigans

    And if he doesn't she might exact revenge by leaking info. Delicious.


  • #7250
    TheRepentent
    Registered Users Posts: 1,082 ✭✭✭TheRepentent


    froog wrote: »
    Pardoning himself won't protect him from state cases as far as i know, which were always the real danger for him. I believe theres quite a few in new york waiting for him.
    oh yeah...gonna enjoy him squirm.


  • #7251
    abff
    Registered Users Posts: 5,713 ✭✭✭abff


    TheRepentent wrote: »
    oh yeah...gonna enjoy him squirm.

    Yes, it would be lovely to see the bully get his comeuppance!

    Whether it will actually happen remains to be seen. But the key thing has to be removing his malignant presence from the political landscape. Everything else is insignificant in comparison.


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  • #7252
    26000 Elephants
    Registered Users Posts: 3,152 ✭✭✭26000 Elephants


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    And if he doesn't she might exact revenge by leaking info. Delicious.

    The next 12 months will be better craic than the last 4 years! So much has yet to come out.

    fun times.


  • #7253
    StringerBell
    Registered Users Posts: 14,016 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    hotmail.com wrote: »
    Well that would dilute the power and in effect would abolish the privilege. It's unlikely he'll commit to any changes and the pardon will continue to get abused.

    How can he abolish it?

    The presidential pardon is written into the constitution, so Biden can't just change it.

    The wording of it is open to interpretation of course but generally speaking I don't think you can grant yourself anything so would be interested to see how that plays out if he tries it. The simpler safer play is to just have Pence pardon him.

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



  • #7254
    What.Now
    Registered Users Posts: 336 ✭✭What.Now


    abff wrote: »
    Yes, it would be lovely to see the bully get his comeuppance!

    Whether it will actually happen remains to be seen. But the key thing has to be removing his malignant presence from the political landscape. Everything else is insignificant in comparison.

    I agree to a large extent BUT the **** he has left behind must be cleaned up or it will fester to what might become a monster that nobody can control.


  • #7255
    What.Now
    Registered Users Posts: 336 ✭✭What.Now


    26000 Elephants wrote: »
    The next 12 months will be better craic than the last 4 years! So much has yet to come out.

    fun times.

    It would be if it wasn't so serious.

    It can't be a case of he did something so ****osis that we'll put it out there and laugh at how crazy it is and laugh at the d**kh**d getting time.

    If 70+ million are to be shown the damage he has caused the country and the world those people must be guided and not laughed at.

    Remember we have all gone down some rabbit hole at some stage in our lives.


  • #7256
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,935 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Professor Moriarty wrote: »
    It occurs to me that everyone Trump has pardoned, or will pardon, probably has serious dirt on him. So Ghislaine Maxwell could well be next.

    But if they do , they can be compelled to answer questions after a pardon. AS they can no longer incriminate themselves they can't hide behind the 5th.

    It's why Stone got a commutation and not a pardon - It's so he can't be forced to talk.

    Same thing will happen with Manafort - Commutation not Pardon..

    Flynn doesn't know anything so he isn't a risk , but if he gives a Pardon/Get out of jail free card to the kids or anyone else they can be forced to spill the beans.


  • #7257
    astrofool
    Registered Users Posts: 16,452 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    But if they do , they can be compelled to answer questions after a pardon. AS they can no longer incriminate themselves they can't hide behind the 5th.

    It's why Stone got a commutation and not a pardon - It's so he can't be forced to talk.

    Same thing will happen with Manafort - Commutation not Pardon..

    Flynn doesn't know anything so he isn't a risk , but if he gives a Pardon/Get out of jail free card to the kids or anyone else they can be forced to spill the beans.

    What would happen if Biden pardoned Stone? Would he then be compelled to talk?


  • #7258
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,935 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    astrofool wrote: »
    What would happen if Biden pardoned Stone? Would he then be compelled to talk?

    Interesting thought , but not sure of the legal view on that.

    But Stone was absolutely categorically given a Commutation instead of a Pardon specifically to keep him quiet.

    I expect Manafort will get the same treatment.


  • #7259
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,668 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    I have not seen his interview but did Trump actually say he will leave the White House once the Electoral College meet?

    1. Does he actually believe they will go against the result?

    2. Does that mean he is just leaving or quitting in December (that is when they meet right?)?

    3. Will pense actually get his wish and be Presedient for a bit?


  • #7260
    Quin_Dub
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,935 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    martingriff wrote: »
    I have not seen his interview but did Trump actually say he will leave the White House once the Electoral College meet?

    1. Does he actually believe they will go against the result?

    2. Does that mean he is just leaving or quitting in December (that is when they meet right?)?

    3. Will pense actually get his wish and be Presedient for a bit?

    1 - No , he doesn't and never did, it's part narcissism and part Grift.

    2 - Bit of both I suspect - He will almost certainly bail-out of the Washington and head for Mar-a-Lago within days of the EC vote (December 12th) and likely never return.

    3 - I really can't see Pence going for it , He fancies his chances at the big chair in the future. Doing a shuffle with Trump just to give him a pardon would destroy his already slim chances . He would be utterly toxic to Democrat and Independent voters after that (even more than he already is).


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  • #7261
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,393 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    1 - No , he doesn't and never did, it's part narcissism and part Grift.

    2 - Bit of both I suspect - He will almost certainly bail-out of the Washington and head for Mar-a-Lago within days of the EC vote (December 12th) and likely never return.

    3 - I really can't see Pence going for it , He fancies his chances at the big chair in the future. Doing a shuffle with Trump just to give him a pardon would destroy his already slim chances . He would be utterly toxic to Democrat and Independent voters after that (even more than he already is).

    On the 3rd point, if Trump were to just quit then Pence would have no choice and have to become president?

    Saying that if he were to run in the future he could slate Trump from on high and tell the world Trump was terrible but his hands were tied?


This discussion has been closed.
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