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Handwriting decipher thread *must post link to full page*

  • 08-07-2015 10:56pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭montgo


    Hi,

    An easy one to start with.

    I am looking at the baptism record of Michael Glasheen on 20 Feb 1870 and the marriage annotation "married Margaret Quartes (?) at Balling??, Athlone on 5th June 1927."

    It would appear that it should be Quarters as a Margaret Quarters was married in Birr district in 1927. Any idea what the townland/village in Athlone should be?


«134567107

Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    Would it be Ballinahown?

    NOTE TO MODS: Maybe this thread could be retitled to be the official decipher thread.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 565 ✭✭✭montgo


    Looks a good possibility. Cheers Hermy


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    Alright, we'll try keeping everything in here please. There's bound to be an initial flurry of deciphering required.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 249 ✭✭yaledo


    I'd like some help reading this sobering paragraph in marriage registers for Moycullen (Co Galway) from 1845.
    I can read the first half, but I struggle with the second half

    354677.jpg


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,108 ✭✭✭Jellybaby1


    This is all I can get at the moment:

    [/SIZE]“This Harvest is being abundant as far as grain is concerned, but great fears nay actual starvation on account of a rot ? dreaded in the potato crop. Black spots appearing on the lumper and the probability of its affecting the interior of the vegetable. The people are afraid as yet to pit them for fear of the contagion attacking the sound ones. Wheat has got up 5 a cwt (hundredweight) more than it was last year. How the incoming summer will be as the necessaries of life is on the ? of a Merciful Provider. The disease in the potato is called Cholera from Black Spots appearing on the surface.”


    Feel free to correct where I got it wrong. I will come back to it later, it will look different then. :)

    I've added a few bits now.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 249 ✭✭yaledo


    Thanks jellybaby1 - I've added a couple more clarifications based on your transcription:

    As I've read through this marriage register, the same writer has several longer commentaries on the state of his parish & on national politics. I'm grateful for his good handwriting, but found no marriages of my ancestors.


    This Harvest is being abundant as far as grain is concerned, but great fears nay actual starvation on account of a rot ? dreaded in the potato crop. Black spots appearing on the lumper and the probability of its affecting the interior of the vegetable. The people are afraid as yet to pit them for fear of the contagion attacking the sound ones. Wheat has got up 5 a cwt (hundredweight) more than it was last year. How the incoming summer will be as far the necessaries of life ^are concerned^ is in the hands of a Merciful Providence. The disease in the potato is called Cholera from Black Spots appearing on the surface.”


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    That's the kind of social history stuff that would never turn up if just a dry transcription of the baptism/marriage entries went up. Unintended benefits.

    Have to wonder who he thought he was writing them for?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭pinkypinky


    You're so right, L1011, we're going to learn so much more seeing the records like this. Similarly, if you actually look through a trade directory, you get much more than just names on a list, and if you're only searching a database version of it, you miss it.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    Agreed pinky.

    From novice to professional there were a lot of concerns about the pitfalls in releasing this set of records in this fashion but I think we're all going to learn a lot more from having to trawl through the books instead of relying on technology to do the searching for us.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 172 ✭✭clashburke


    Any ideas on what this says?

    Its in the last column of the register. I have a feeling it might have something to do with the parent only being married two months previous (Different parish if that matters).

    My eyes are square looking at it and I cant seem to get the right spelling for a translation!

    Cheers

    Edit: _________ tautum quia validi patre baptizatus _______ _______ patre


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    ceremonio tautum quia validi a patre baptizatus testimonium perhiberte patre

    Don't know what it means but that's what I think it reads.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,162 ✭✭✭Wyldwood


    Ceremonia tantum quia validi a patre baptizatus testimonium per (hebente?) patre


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    Hermy wrote: »
    ceremonio tautum quia validi a patre baptizatus testimonium perhiberte patre

    Don't know what it means but that's what I think it reads.

    not a translation but I can hazard a guess at some of the words -

    ceremonio = ceremony
    patre = father
    baptizatus = baptism
    testimonium = testimony
    perhibente = witness ?

    I'm in the middle of a FutureLearn course on the Romans so spent lunchtime trying read altar inscriptions in Latin - turns out that it doesn't really help much with this ..


  • Registered Users Posts: 172 ✭✭clashburke


    Thanks folks.

    I've tried google translate, but I suspect its as bad at latin as it is at Irish. Ill try a Latin forum see if it brings any joy!

    Edit: Right on all counts I think shane. My Latin is limited to phrases I needed in collage so I can guess words but it seems that they might mean something else when use together!


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    This page on Family Search can be helpful.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    it think it's going to be something like - 'ceremony valid because of testimony of witness the father'


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,358 ✭✭✭Aineoil


    I'm going painstakingly through the records for Caherciveen, Co Kerry. The records were recorded in Latin. The first names of the children

    baptised are in Latin too and some of the parents' names.

    I've had no joy yet, despite scrolling slowly through 1862 (3 times) - the year my great grandfather was born. I doubted that I had the right

    year, so I rang my eighty year old father to check. He went to the family headstone to see if I was wrong.

    The headstone read "XXXX died 1942 aged 80".

    I also checked the records from 1881 as well. Any advice?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    Aineoil wrote: »
    I'm going painstakingly through the records for Caherciveen, Co Kerry. The records were recorded in Latin. The first names of the children

    baptised are in Latin too and some of the parents' names.

    I've had no joy yet, despite scrolling slowly through 1862 (3 times) - the year my great grandfather was born. I doubted that I had the right

    year, so I rang my eighty year old father to check. He went to the family headstone to see if I was wrong.

    The headstone read "XXXX died 1942 aged 80".

    I also checked the records from 1881 as well. Any advice?

    what is his name, and parents names ?

    I'd be very careful of reported ages for this timeframe from any source, as they are not always accurate...

    Have you found any possible civil index records, or searching the transcripts on IrishGenealogy.ie ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,358 ✭✭✭Aineoil


    shanew wrote: »
    what is his name, and parents names ?

    I'd be very careful of reported ages for this timeframe from any source, as they are not always accurate...

    Have you found any possible civil index records, or searching the transcripts on IrishGenealogy.ie ?

    May I post the name?

    I agree about the age thing, people were not really sure of their birth date in bygone days. In the 1901 census my great grand mother was 43 years of age and by 1911 she was 58.

    I do have his parents' names. May I post their names?

    I found nothing in any civil records about him.

    In IrishGenealogy.ie I found the baptismal and birth dates of seven of their children - church records.

    The oldest child seems to have no baptismal record that I can find. He's a bit of a mystery. My father thinks he went to America.


    Thank you so much for your reply, I really appreciate it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    There's no problem with posting his name and those of siblings or his parent if you wish, as none of these people would still be living

    The first child can be baptised in the mother's parish of origin so sometimes you have to search outside the area the family settled in. Where does you gt-grandfather fit in the family - middle, eldest, youngest etc...

    p.s. it's possible that his baptism was not noted in the register in error, but there might be a civil record - depends how common the name is.. but you may have to try a few certs to find him. He may be registered under a different first name to the one you expect, and ended up using something else in later life.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,776 ✭✭✭paddysdream


    Quick question.
    In the last column in a marriage register (Observanda si quae sint etc) what is to be found here normally?
    Reason is that found marriage of a relative but even with half an hour of playing around with the screen still could not make out the words.Looks like 4 words with the first having approx 9 letters,second 3,third 2,fourth 3 letters all in a line and then underneath is another word(I think!!!!)

    Not a lot to go on I know but hoping it might be a standard notation or comment.
    Don't really want to link to it as both the name and address is the exact same as mine so if anybody might be willing to look at it then could pm.
    Thanks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,182 ✭✭✭jos28


    I reckon we'll all be heading to Specsavers reading through these images !
    It's a fantastic resource and so much easier than spending the day at the NLI.
    I have a birth of Walter Glover, May 1822 in Castletownbere
    http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/a303e20155788
    I originally found him on the microfilm at NLI and found the entry online today.


    Does anyone think this might be his parents marriage in 1820 ? (page 8)

    Marriage.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    jos28 wrote: »
    ... Does anyone think this might be his parents marriage in 1820 ? (page 8)

    Marriage.jpg
    Is it a marriage record? I see
    Idem B. Walt. fil. leg. Walt. Glover & Catr. Sullivan Village
    That looks to me to be (loose construction): "Likewise Baptised was Walter, a legitimate son of Walter Glover and Catherine Sullivan of the Village."


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 470 ✭✭CeannRua


    clashburke wrote: »
    Any ideas on what this says?

    Its in the last column of the register. I have a feeling it might have something to do with the parent only being married two months previous (Different parish if that matters).

    My eyes are square looking at it and I cant seem to get the right spelling for a translation!

    Cheers

    Edit: _________ tautum quia validi patre baptizatus _______ _______ patre

    I wonder if this might mean that the child was baptised by his father, and that the father bore witness to same. Are there notations about dues paid to the priest on the page and is there any difference between the fee paid for this baptism and others?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,182 ✭✭✭jos28


    Is it a marriage record? I see
    Idem B. Walt. fil. leg. Walt. Glover & Catr. Sullivan Village
    That looks to me to be (loose construction): "Likewise Baptised was Walter, a legitimate son of Walter Glover and Catherine Sullivan of the Village."

    Thanks P.B., I suspected as much. I wonder why there appears to be another baptism for Walter 2 years later.
    I have come across cases where the first child died and the same name was used for the next one. Wonder if that's the case. I'd LOVE to find a marriage for Walter and Catherine. You'd imagine I'd have a good chance since the Castletownbere marriage registers run from 1819


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    jos28 wrote: »
    Thanks P.B., I suspected as much. I wonder why there appears to be another baptism for Walter 2 years later.
    I have come across cases where the first child died and the same name was used for the next one. Wonder if that's the case.
    In West Kerry anyway, it was fairly common to find the name of a deceased child given to the next one born, and I think the custom was more widespread than that. There seems to have been a traditional belief that God would not take two children of the same name from the family.
    I'd LOVE to find a marriage for Walter and Catherine. You'd imagine I'd have a good chance since the Castletownbere marriage registers run from 1819
    Are you sure they married in Castletownbere? Do you have any reason to think there might be a connection with another parish?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,182 ✭✭✭jos28


    All my lot are from Kerry and I found a few re-used names. I love the idea that the belief was that God wouldn't take a second one. I hadn't heard that before and it explains why I found so many.
    The Glovers were all based in Killeentierna and one marriage entry shows Walter (Snr), father of the bride as a soldier.
    http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/e39ba40029040
    When I found Walter in Castletownbere I knew they had to be connected. It's possible that he was stationed at the military base there. I managed to find a fabulous illustrated report from Bere Island in 1824. This highlights how difficult life was for the soldiers and how some of them crossed the mountains into Kerry in search of food and work. This might explain how Walter ended up in Kerry. Clutching at straws here I know. I've no proof that they married in Castletownbere but I thought it was a possibilty

    Bere Island in Bantry Bay with a review of its effective powers as a Fortfied Place. Written by Lt Alexander Alcock, Royal Artillery, 1824.


  • Registered Users Posts: 172 ✭✭clashburke


    CeannRua wrote: »
    I wonder if this might mean that the child was baptised by his father, and that the father bore witness to same. Are there notations about dues paid to the priest on the page and is there any difference between the fee paid for this baptism and others?

    http://137.191.249.36/registers/vtls000633444#page/167/mode/1up

    Third down on that page John Lee. No mention of dues anywhere.

    I've put it up on a Latin Forum also and they seem to think its written wrong. There reluctant to give what they think it would be if it was phrased correctly


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,358 ✭✭✭Aineoil


    shanew wrote: »
    There's no problem with posting his name and those of siblings or his parent if you wish, as none of these people would still be living

    The first child can be baptised in the mother's parish of origin so sometimes you have to search outside the area the family settled in. Where does you gt-grandfather fit in the family - middle, eldest, youngest etc...

    p.s. it's possible that his baptism was not noted in the register in error, but there might be a civil record - depends how common the name is.. but you may have to try a few certs to find him. He may be registered under a different first name to the one you expect, and ended up using something else in later life.

    I think you might be right. He may have been baptised in his mother's parish. I never thought of that. My dad thinks she was from Ballinskelligs.

    I don't know where my great grandfather fits in family wise. I'll ask my dad but I don't think he knows.

    Here's what I do know.

    Daniel Shea born 1862 (source family headstone....Died aged 80 in 1942)

    Mary Shea nee Donnelly (43 years of age in the 1901 census, 58 in the 1911 census)

    They had 8 children.

    Patrick born in 1885.

    Hanora born in 1887. (Source church records)

    James born in 1890. (Source church records)

    Catherine born in 1891. (Source church records)

    Mary born 1893. (Source church records)

    John born 1895. (Source church records)

    Daniel born 1897. (Source church records)

    Timothy born 1899. (Source church records)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,777 ✭✭✭shanew


    Aineoil wrote: »
    ...Daniel Shea born 1862 (source family headstone....Died aged 80 in 1942)

    Mary Shea nee Donnelly (43 years of age in the 1901 census, 58 in the 1911 census)

    They had 8 children.

    Patrick born in 1885.

    Hanora born in 1887. (Source church records)
    ....

    have you checked for a marriage (civil or church) for Daniel and Mary ?

    That might give a clue as to their location(s) before the birth of Hanora. I would start there and then try to work back to baptisms for Daniel Mary and possibly Patrick.


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