Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

Dravokivich · 12-10-2018 9:20am

Stephen15 wrote: »

I had a read of the GAI customer charter and one oddity I noticed was that it said lost property is held in Ballymount for two days and is then moved to the DB lost property office. I wonder what the story is with that.

Must be some agreement about accessibility.

Conway635 · 12-10-2018 3:39pm

Alun wrote: »

Shop River is a small group of houses just after the bus stop on the left if you're heading away from Enniskerry. There is a small 'river', although unsure if that's actually Shop River, that originates in a small reservoir on the other side of the road that goes underground under the houses, reappears above ground and wends it's way towards Powerscourt, feeds another small reservoir close to the main car park, and ends up in the Dargle. You can see it all clearly on Google aerial photography if you look.

I agree though, it's a silly end destination to put on a bus serving Enniskerry.

Just to add to the Shop River discussion, here is proof that it does exist:

‪Garda’ had to handcuff man who became aggressive outside club https://www.independent.ie/regionals/braypeople/news/garda-had-to-handcuff-man-who-became-aggressive-outside-club-27611884.html‬;

It’s in the newspapers so it must be true :-)

C635

magentis · 13-10-2018 2:36am

devnull wrote: »

The NTA were chronically understaffed and still are understaffed. They warned the department that if they were not able to recruit extra staff then it would effect their ability to deliver projects on time. The department has since allowed 12 extra staff but this only helped a small amount.

Impressive nta HR knowledge devnull.

Kfagan10 · 13-10-2018 5:28am

magentis wrote: »

Impressive nta HR knowledge devnull.

Their staff are also nothing to do with the Department of Transport. As in the allocation of staff has no relation to the department.

devnull · 13-10-2018 7:16am

magentis wrote: »

Impressive nta HR knowledge devnull.

Kfagan10 wrote: »

Their staff are also nothing to do with the Department of Transport. As in the allocation of staff has no relation to the department.

Unfortunately, the both of you are ploughing a rather misguided and false furrow there and a false narrative So rather than speculate of what is true and what isn't about the situation in the NTA, lets just examine their board meeting minutes shall we and go with the facts.

Perhaps the April one would be a good place to start?

Staffing issues and in particular the increasingly urgent need to fill a number of key staff vacancies in order to ensure that key projects are not delayed. It was agreed that the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport should be advised that delays in the filling of these vacancies will inevitably impact on the delivery of key NTA projects.

Also, how about the May one?

Department approval for the filling of 12 key posts by the NTA. The Board noted that while the filling of these posts was welcome, it only went part of the way to addressing the NTA’s staffing needs having regard to the NTA role in the delivery of major public transport projects under the National Development Plan. The Board noted that an updated strategic resourcing plan will be made available during June

So I suggest you find a new source, since it's clear the ones that are telling you that the department have no control over staffing have no idea what they are talking about and rather than me knowing inside info of HR Matters, I simply read an official document in a public domain on a clearly labeled section of the NTA Website.

AlekSmart · 13-10-2018 1:12pm

devnull wrote: »

Unfortunately, the both of you are ploughing a rather misguided and false furrow there and a false narrative So rather than speculate of what is true and what isn't about the situation in the NTA, lets just examine their board meeting minutes shall we and go with the facts.

Perhaps the April one would be a good place to start?

Also, how about the May one?

So I suggest you find a new source, since it's clear the ones that are telling you that the department have no control over staffing have no idea what they are talking about and rather than me knowing inside info of HR Matters, I simply read an official document in a public domain on a clearly labeled section of the NTA Website.

As a regular long-term visitor to the NTA's homepage,Chateau Despair,I can totally support Dev's points here.

Going all the way back to it's inception,it can be seen that the Authority is an adminstrative Camel...(a Horse designed by a Committee).

In many ways it has an impossible task,particularly when one takes account of it's original function as a DUBLIN Transport Authority,a function which it's current establishment might just be able to adequately perform.

The NATIONAL bit of it's remit,is a vast sinkhole into which scarce resources have to be poured,whilst the Capital's far greater demands for those same resources remain skimped upon,as it continues to expand in a largely still uncontrolled manner.

I am of the belief that the Authority requires an immediate restructuring,with perhaps 3 regional bodies and 1 Metropolitan to address the widely differing needs of these places.

Blundering ever ownards,as is current policy,will eventually see the NTA run out of steam......and Consultants

Stephen15 · 14-10-2018 8:22pm

So I travelled on Go-Ahead for the first time today. Overall a fine experience not really any major improvement or downgrade on DB. I took the 75 from DL to Dundrum and got off on Syndenham Road but got on the way back on Dundrum Main Street. The bus was fairly busy and the took a while loading and un-loading at stops as can be expected as many of the stops had a fair amount waiting on the 75 with the usual teenagers going to Dundrum SC on the weekend and also traffic was heavy enough on the way there for a Sunday so the journey took about 45 mins.

A few observations would be that the bus driver on the way to Dundrum allowed passenger onto the bus at DL DART station about 10 mins before it was due to leave despite the fact the bus displayed on RTPI as due. DB drivers generally do not allow this and make passengers wait at the stop until the bus is timetabled to leave. Also the 75 had just come off an inbound 63. The left hand leap validator on the return service was out of order meaning all Leap transactions had to be done through the driver.

The first bus I travelled on was an ex DB SG but the second bus was a 182 with the new moquette which looks quite nice and gives the bus a modern and more spacious look. Even on a Sunday the new Dundrum loop adds on an extra 5-10 mins and the lights at the Luas bridge take an age to go green also we passed another 75 on Sydenham Rd. which was unable to pass without our bus having to come to a complete standstill. Not sure if the new moquette was decided on by GAI or the NTA and I'm will this moquette be on DB 2019 deliveries.

Overall I'd give it the Go Ahead passenger expierence for today a 7.5/10. It gains marks for the drivers being friendly and allowing passengers on at DL station before the bus is due to leave but loses marks for the broken Leap validator and the 75 Dundrum re route. Hopefully any of the issues from last week are sorted out and future transitions of service from the DB to GAI go smoother than they did last week.

coylemj · 14-10-2018 9:47pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

... the bus driver on the way to Dundrum allowed passenger onto the bus at DL DART station about 10 mins before it was due to leave despite the fact the bus displayed on RTPI as due. DB drivers generally do not allow this and make passengers wait at the stop until the bus is timetabled to leave.

In fairness to DB drivers, I believe this was the correct policy when DB operated both the 46A and 75 as otherwise, a 46A driver at the DL terminus could allow passengers to board early, only for some of them to be annoyed if a 75 pulled away first. Sometimes you have to protect people from themselves.

Stephen15 · 14-10-2018 10:06pm

coylemj wrote: »

In fairness to DB drivers, I believe this was the correct policy when DB operated both the 46A and 75 as otherwise, a 46A driver at the DL terminus could allow passengers to board early, only for some of them to be annoyed if a 75 pulled away first. Sometimes you have to protect people from themselves.

Yeah I was thinking it would be nice to have the option maybe it was just something that this particular driver was allowing. RTPI should reflect this.

Despite all the negativity I was hearing from DB drivers about GAI most drivers waved to each other regardless of operator.

ax586 · 14-10-2018 10:36pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

So I travelled on Go-Ahead for the first time today. Overall a fine experience not really any major improvement or downgrade on DB. I took the 75 from DL to Dundrum and got off on Syndenham Road but got on the way back on Dundrum Main Street. The bus was fairly busy and the took a while loading and un-loading at stops as can be expected as many of the stops had a fair amount waiting on the 75 with the usual teenagers going to Dundrum SC on the weekend and also traffic was heavy enough on the way there for a Sunday so the journey took about 45 mins.

A few observations would be that the bus driver on the way to Dundrum allowed passenger onto the bus at DL DART station about 10 mins before it was due to leave despite the fact the bus displayed on RTPI as due. DB drivers generally do not allow this and make passengers wait at the stop until the bus is timetabled to leave. Also the 75 had just come off an inbound 63. The left hand leap validator on the return service was out of order meaning all Leap transactions had to be done through the driver.

The first bus I travelled on was an ex DB SG but the second bus was a 182 with the new moquette which looks quite nice and gives the bus a modern and more spacious look. Even on a Sunday the new Dundrum loop adds on an extra 5-10 mins and the lights at the Luas bridge take an age to go green also we passed another 75 on Sydenham Rd. which was unable to pass without our bus having to come to a complete standstill. Not sure if the new moquette was decided on by GAI or the NTA and I'm will this moquette be on DB 2019 deliveries.

Overall I'd give it the Go Ahead passenger expierence for today a 7.5/10. It gains marks for the drivers being friendly and allowing passengers on at DL station before the bus is due to leave but loses marks for the broken Leap validator and the 75 Dundrum re route. Hopefully any of the issues from last week are sorted out and future transitions of service from the DB to GAI go smoother than they did last week.

It’s the nta that done up the timetable and route not go ahead..because most of us in go ahead thought we be going the old 75 route and not through dundrum bridge and we have complained about it aswel..go ahead said they will say it to the nta but I say the nta won’t care

Tickityboo · 14-10-2018 10:53pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

Yeah I was thinking it would be nice to have the option maybe it was just something that this particular driver was allowing. RTPI should reflect this.

Despite all the negativity I was hearing from DB drivers about GAI most drivers waved to each other regardless of operator.

I don't recall any Dublin Bus driver saying there would be any animosity towards GAI drivers!!

They're just doing a job to make ends meet like Dublin Bus drivers.

coylemj · 15-10-2018 12:18pm

Tickityboo wrote: »

I don't recall any Dublin Bus driver saying there would be any animosity towards GAI drivers!!

They're just doing a job to make ends meet like Dublin Bus drivers.

All fine and dandy but some of us remember the disgraceful way Bus Eireann drivers blockaded Aircoach buses at Dublin airport in the early days because the notion of competition didn't sit too well with them.

Tickityboo · 15-10-2018 12:34pm

coylemj wrote: »

All fine and dandy but some of us remember the disgraceful way Bus Eireann drivers blockaded Aircoach buses at Dublin airport in the early days because the notion of competition didn't sit too well with them.

What has Bus Eireann got to do with Dublin Bus?

WomanSkirtFan8 · 15-10-2018 4:13pm

Tickityboo wrote: »

What has Bus Eireann got to do with Dublin Bus?

Part of the same parent company as is Irish Rail.:cool:

coylemj · 15-10-2018 5:12pm

Tickityboo wrote: »

What has Bus Eireann got to do with Dublin Bus?

As well as being in common ownership (both are subsidiaries of Coras Iompar Eireann), a significant number of drivers across both companies are members of the same union - the National Bus and Rail Union (NBRU).

BE and DB are both heavily unionised and a certain cohort of the workforce of each company (and especially their union leaders) doesn't take kindly to any threat of exposure to commercial reality i.e. competition.

StreetLight · 15-10-2018 5:44pm

It's a condition of employment within those companies. Prospective employees MUST be a member of a recognised trade union.

coylemj · 15-10-2018 6:21pm

StreetLight wrote: »

It's a condition of employment within those companies. Prospective employees MUST be a member of a recognised trade union.

I thought there was a Supreme Court case a long time ago which held that the constitutional right of association came with an implied right of disassociation and therefore an employer could not force someone (as a condition of their employment) to join a union?

Qrt · 15-10-2018 7:08pm

coylemj wrote: »

I thought there was a Supreme Court case a long time ago which held that the constitutional right of association came with an implied right of disassociation and therefore an employer could not force someone (as a condition of their employment) to join a union?

I was told this when I entered college. You can request your €8 back for the USI levy. Lecturer used the right to disassociation as a basis...

Stephen15 · 15-10-2018 7:27pm

Ok this thread is getting off topic wasn't expecting a simple observation I made to derail the thread.

end of the road · 15-10-2018 7:32pm

coylemj wrote: »

As well as being in common ownership (both are subsidiaries of Coras Iompar Eireann), a significant number of drivers across both companies are members of the same union - the National Bus and Rail Union (NBRU).

in relation to the statement which Tickityboo made in relation to both dublin bus and go ahead drivers having no issue with each other, and the further line of discussion in which Tickityboo asked as to what bus eireann had to do with dublin bus, your points do not show the relevance of bus eireann and dublin bus to each other, or to go ahead, nor do they show that dublin bus or bus eireann drivers will automatically have issues with go ahead drivers.

coylemj wrote: »

BE and DB are both heavily unionised and a certain cohort of the workforce of each company (and especially their union leaders) doesn't take kindly to any threat of exposure to commercial reality i.e. competition.

and yet (at least to my understanding anyway) dublin bus and bus eireann have always had some competition, whether it be small operators and later, bigger operators, they have never been completely competition free.

GM228 · 15-10-2018 8:21pm

StreetLight wrote: »

It's a condition of employment within those companies. Prospective employees MUST be a member of a recognised trade union.

No it is not, in fact there are many non unionised members within the CIE group.

Such a condition is unconstitutional, there has been a few court cases regarding this and as coylemj has stated there is indeed a Supreme Court decision on the matter, and ironically the most authoritative case on the matter involved CIE (rail division) workers in the Supreme Court Meskell vs CIE [1973] IR 121 case.

Stephen15 · 15-10-2018 10:54pm

Interview with Ed Willis Go-Ahead Ireland Managing Director

https://fora.ie/go-ahead-ireland-privatisation-4279883-Oct2018/

devnull · 16-10-2018 12:02pm

Timetables for next tranche of services removed from GoAhead site.

soundman45 · 16-10-2018 1:12pm

Timetables for route 111/184/185 still on website coming into service on 21st October.

vectorvictor · 16-10-2018 6:00pm

Plenty of the ex DB fleet out and about - 142, 151 and 172s.

All with DB interior and BAC bye law signs etc... Do we expect these to be modded ?

Stephen15 · 16-10-2018 6:12pm

vectorvictor wrote: »

Plenty of the ex DB fleet out and about - 142, 151 and 172s.

All with DB interior and BAC bye law signs etc... Do we expect these to be modded ?

I didn't realise they had 172 buses until I saw one at the weekend. Thought it was all older deliveries from 2014 and 15 SGs. They have GTs from 2012 and 13 aswell I think they only have about twelve of them but I've yet to see one in service.

I was on an ex DB GAI bus at the weekend and it had all the DB notices and the Wifi signs were replaced with stickers. The notices without DB branding remained. The notices which said "Thank you for travelling with DB" was replaced with a sticker saying "Thank you for travelling with GAI".

magentis · 16-10-2018 6:19pm

Absolute shít show.You couldn't make this stuff up.

devnull · 16-10-2018 6:24pm

magentis wrote: »

Absolute shít show.You couldn't make this stuff up.

With all due respect, I doubt the average bus user even cares about what such signs on the interior of a bus says, most passengers have probably not even read them before, let alone notice the fact it hasn't changed.

john boye · 16-10-2018 6:46pm

Whilst I agree it's minor and it's an odd thing to be getting upset about I do find it strange that GA wouldn't endeavour to make sure that all traces of the buses past life are removed.

GM228 · 16-10-2018 8:51pm

devnull wrote: »

With all due respect, I doubt the average bus user even cares about what such signs on the interior of a bus says, most passengers have probably not even read them before, let alone notice the fact it hasn't changed.

Surprised DB didn't remove them themselves seeing as how they are so caught up with protection of their identity.

Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

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