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Minimum alcohol pricing is nigh

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Comments

  • #3392
    joe40
    Registered Users Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭joe40


    KrustyUCC wrote: »
    FactCheck: Is minimum unit alcohol pricing "proven" to work?
    Health Promotion Minister Marcella Corcoran Kennedy made a big claim about the effectiveness of the government’s alcohol policy, this week. We tested it.

    In a debate on TV3′s Tonight With Vincent Browne on Monday, Junior Minister Marcella Corcoran Kennedy claimed that the policy has been “proven to work” in other jurisdictions, citing the example of British Columbia in Canada.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/minimum-unit-pricing-alcohol-ireland-facts-2932210-Aug2016/

    I just read that full article (granted it was a skim reading). It is very good and to be honest has put a bit of a dent in my argument, but since this is the internet I have to persevere.

    Busy now I'll get back!!


  • #3393
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,865 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Am I misssing something or what?

    Surely if a premium product is in or around the same price as cheap stuff after MUP, then drinkers will buy the branded/premium stuff. Wouldn't they?

    So why would so called branded/premium producers put their prices up, instead of welcoming in all those who drank cheaper stuff before MUP. Win win.

    I hasten to add that I am not in favour of the Nanny State of which MUP is but one aspect at all, and it is creeping in to all aspects of our lives. But that's another topic, although associated with this one.


  • #3394
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    A bit I am missing on this, is the minimum pricing on what the drinks company can sell to the supermarkets at, or what the supermarkets can sell for?


  • #3395
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users Posts: 6,031 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    What the supermarkets/off licences can sell for


  • #3396
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users Posts: 6,031 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    Alcohol Bill passes through all stages of Oireachtas

    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/alcohol-bill-passes-through-all-stages-of-oireachtas-874984.html

    Once Michael D signs the bill I wonder when prices will go up?


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  • #3397
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,634 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    KrustyUCC wrote: »
    Alcohol Bill passes through all stages of Oireachtas

    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/alcohol-bill-passes-through-all-stages-of-oireachtas-874984.html

    Once Michael D signs the bill I wonder when prices will go up?


    I think its still going to be held until NI brings in similar to avoid cross border shenanigans, also theres bound to be EU appeals as this can be argued to breach competition laws


  • #3398
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    The govt looks to be in pretty shaky grounds right now, what with Naughten and Fitzpatrick gone.

    Imagine them knocking on doors for an election hot on the heels of this blatant sop. :)


  • #3399
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    Johnny Dogs wrote: »
    The govt looks to be in pretty shaky grounds right now, what with Naughten and Fitzpatrick gone.

    Imagine them knocking on doors for an election hot on the heels of this blatant sop. :)

    This Bill alone could put them out.


    You don't fck with an Irishman and his drink.


  • #3400
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users Posts: 6,031 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    Only issue is who do you vote for that hasn't had a part in passing this bill? :(


  • #3401
    Checkmate19
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 564 ✭✭✭Checkmate19


    Well for one you don't vote for fine gael as it was their idea. Brought in the back of a health bill but really to as they said in their manifesto support pubs.


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  • #3402
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,822 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    So why would so called branded/premium producers put their prices up, instead of welcoming in all those who drank cheaper stuff before MUP.

    Same reason Heneken Ireland wouldn't supply Wetherspoons with Heineken, but were happy to supply them with Amstel

    They didn't want their "premium" brand being cheapened by being sold at a non-premium price. Simple as that. The big brewers have their low, mid and high priced brands and many of them have craft brands above that. If the price level of your lowest priced brand rises, you have to maintain the price differential to the next brand up, to persuade the drinker that if X is dearer than Y then X must be better. It's basic marketing.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaD8y-CGhMw

    Life ain't always empty.



  • #3403
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Same reason Heneken Ireland wouldn't supply Wetherspoons with Heineken, but were happy to supply them with Amstel

    They didn't want their "premium" brand being cheapened by being sold at a non-premium price. Simple as that. The big brewers have their low, mid and high priced brands and many of them have craft brands above that. If the price level of your lowest priced brand rises, you have to maintain the price differential to the next brand up, to persuade the drinker that if X is dearer than Y then X must be better. It's basic marketing.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaD8y-CGhMw

    In a nutshell.

    The lads thinking they'll be unaffected by this sop because they sup malbec with their Foie gras are only codding themselves and no one else.


  • #3404
    andekwarhola
    Registered Users Posts: 4,638 ✭✭✭andekwarhola


    All the predictions about craft (and other drink types perceived to be premium) rising in tandem is a bit of a surmise that has yet to be tested.

    As pointed out already, craft beer drinkers, for example, already pay quite a relative premium for off sales already.

    There's no guarantee at all that producers or retailers will up the price even more and risk sales volume, especially for a nascent market.

    It's also a bit silly to say craft beer drinkers will want to distinguish what they buy from cheap stuff by paying a higher premium.

    I'm a craft beer drinker, and already pay above odds. I don't give a titty **** how higher it's priced than Galahad lager. If craft beer was cheaper than Polish lager I'd be delighted. I don't buy the beer I do because of how its perceived, only because I like it. Ditto I don't drink cheap lager because I don't like it, not because its seen as cheap.


  • #3405
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    You don't support government interference in healthcare but you're happy to have them interfere in pricing. Why?

    Because they do interfere in healthcare. Of course that is just one of a number of reasons.


  • #3406
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    VinLieger wrote: »
    So you are for a completely privatized healthcare system but also pro wide ranging government interference and price fixing?


    Those are two mutually exclusive positions.

    I grant you that if the government were to get out of the healthcare industry, I would have fewer reasons for supporting the MUP. But as things stand, the government are involved in healthcare.


  • #3407
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Padraig Mor wrote: »
    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    Inelastic, yes. But not zero. So consumption reduces as price rises.

    Ireland has some of the world's highest prices so why is our consumption not lower...Why do plenty of countries with cheaper booze (such as.....most other countries) have much lower consumption rates?

    That question misunderstands price elasticity, which is the response of a given market to a change in price in that market. It does not describe the differences between markets.


  • #3408
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »
    That question misunderstands price elasticity, which is the response of a given market to a change in price in that market. It does not describe the differences between markets.

    And it has shown that the effects of this is negligible


  • #3409
    squawker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 501 ✭✭✭squawker


    Brew your own lads

    its extremely easy, 40 pints for €15

    sure it takes time, but once you get over the beginner stage

    you will never buy that swill from the off-licence or Public house again


  • #3410
    kerryjack
    Registered Users Posts: 1,555 ✭✭✭kerryjack


    squawker wrote: »
    Brew your own lads

    its extremely easy, 40 pints for €15

    sure it takes time, but once you get over the beginner stage

    you will never buy that swill from the off-licence or Public house again
    Its certainly worth considering if you could get a few like minded people together and build a mancave with pool table and dart board and start brewing your own beer, could be a little business for the likes of your self giving courses to home brewers . Is it legal to brew your own beer in this country.


  • #3411
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,634 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    kerryjack wrote: »
    s it legal to brew your own beer in this country.


    Yup its perfectly legal as well as brewing your own wine, you just can't sell it


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  • #3412
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,634 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    realitykeeper wrote: »
    I grant you that if the government were to get out of the healthcare industry, I would have fewer reasons for supporting the MUP. But as things stand, the government are involved in healthcare.


    Private only healthcare has been proven to absolutely not work, America is the best/worst example of this.


    You are all over the map with your opinions with each one being completely incompatible with the previous. Theres no question anymore that you are simply trolling.


  • #3413
    BobMc
    Registered Users Posts: 1,125 ✭✭✭BobMc


    I concur on the homebrew, When I first stumbled upon this thread it gave me the idea to return to brewing (we tried it in our late teens, now some +20yrs later)

    I've never looked back, only rarely now do I treat my self to a few from the offie, and thats usually for recipe research

    With skill and practice you can easily knock out stuff thats far better than any swill you can buy


  • #3414
    kerryjack
    Registered Users Posts: 1,555 ✭✭✭kerryjack


    Is there a home brewing forum and if not could we set one up


  • #3415
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    kerryjack wrote: »
    Is there a home brewing forum and if not could we set one up

    here


  • #3416
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 14,189 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Anger, Denial, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptance.

    We seem to be in the bargaining stage now. :)


  • #3417
    kerryjack
    Registered Users Posts: 1,555 ✭✭✭kerryjack


    Johnny Dogs wrote: »
    kerryjack wrote: »
    Is there a home brewing forum and if not could we set one up

    here
    Ta


  • #3418
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,822 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    andekwarhola wrote: »
    I'm a craft beer drinker, and already pay above odds. I don't give a titty **** how higher it's priced than Galahad lager. If craft beer was cheaper than Polish lager I'd be delighted. I don't buy the beer I do because of how its perceived, only because I like it. Ditto I don't drink cheap lager because I don't like it, not because its seen as cheap.

    Like it or not, marketing works. It may or may not work on you, but taking the population as a whole it does work. There's a reason Heineken is substantially dearer than Dutch Gold and it's not because of taxation or the ingredients.

    Life ain't always empty.



  • #3419
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,657 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    naughtb4 wrote: »
    A bit I am missing on this, is the minimum pricing on what the drinks company can sell to the supermarkets at, or what the supermarkets can sell for?
    Technically speaking it's the retail price. But expect Diageo & co. to up the price a bit simply because they can. Then again most of the "premium" brands are already at or above the MUP so it'll be the "Dutch Gold" that will go up.

    And no it doesn't cost much more to make a premium lagers so all this means is that they'll get as much profit on the cheap stuff as on the premium stuff.

    The supermarkets will make a lot more profit on own brand stuff sourced on the continent.


  • #3420
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    One of the most pathetic things about this is that public consumption has been going down for 20 solid years, and in younger demographics we are apparently on the mid to lower end in the EU.

    As a smoker I don't mind at all what they have done with the cost of cigarettes in the last 10-15 years, but I only drink maybe 3-4 times a year so don't even have any vested interest in the cost of alcohol and just cannot find any decent excuse for it beyond politicians being out of touch by thinking the Vintners have a lot more sway than they actually do (or at least should) in this day and age.


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  • #3421
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    squawker wrote: »
    Brew your own lads

    its extremely easy, 40 pints for €15

    sure it takes time, but once you get over the beginner stage

    you will never buy that swill from the off-licence or Public house again

    Plus, you could sit for hours watching it ferment. Sometimes the inside of the carboy looks like that giant storm on Jupiter.


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