The left this, the right that..

super_furry · 11-10-2018 3:23pm

There sometimes seems like there's a weird concerted effort to spread this far-right thinking here in After Hours and it's really not apparent anywhere else in Irish society, apart from maybe the comment section of The Journal.

Chris_Heilong · 11-10-2018 5:32pm

super_furry wrote: »

There sometimes seems like there's a weird concerted effort to spread this far-right thinking here in After Hours and it's really not apparent anywhere else in Irish society, apart from maybe the comment section of The Journal.

Any logical thinking adult would see the absolute sh*t show going on over on the left(Mostly related to PC culture) and not want to associate with that, many normal people do not know any better but the left try so desperately to prove they are correct maybe due to an insecure position as is proved on this thread with the constant posting from certain people with almost no content, this is not a game of 'last word' validates your opinion.

I blame the educational institutions who seem to have adopted the Marxist view of 'Change the world' and not the correct view which is 'Seek Truth'.

Here is an example of how ridiculous academia has become, a few Students who wanted to test how far they could push the extremely liberal Universities, They took Mein Kampf and switched out some of the words with Feminist buzzwords then submitted their paper to a journal for publishing and it was accepted:eek:

DEFTLEFTHAND · 11-10-2018 5:37pm

Most people opposing this extreme SJW weirdness are not some sort of far right loon.

You've all sorts of people rallying against it, classical liberals, libertarians, conservatives.

James Brown · 11-10-2018 5:42pm

The best trick is having a right wing government you support, do something you don't like and blaming the left, while continuing to support the very shower responsible.

super_furry · 11-10-2018 6:01pm

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Any logical thinking adult would see the absolute sh*t show going on over on the left(Mostly related to PC culture) and not want to associate with that, many normal people do not know any better but the left try so desperately to prove they are correct maybe due to an insecure position as is proved on this thread with the constant posting from certain people with almost no content, this is not a game of 'last word' validates your opinion.

I blame the educational institutions who seem to have adopted the Marxist view of 'Change the world' and not the correct view which is 'Seek Truth'.

Here is an example of how ridiculous academia has become, a few Students who wanted to test how far they could push the extremely liberal Universities, They took Mein Kampf and switched out some of the words with Feminist buzzwords then submitted their paper to a journal for publishing and it was accepted:eek:

How is any of that relevant in Irish life or Irish society?

There's so many people who have wrapped up their persona in online American politics and in following American politcal YouTubers and writers that they assume that this whole American left wing/right wing, republican/democrat, SJW/alt-right, nonsense is transferable to Irish life. It's not.

Wibbs · 11-10-2018 6:03pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

People don't like to think for themselves. They just want someone to stand in front of them and deliver easy answers and scapegoats.

Hardly exclusive to the hard Right types. The hard Left are just as gullible and just as keen on scapegoats.

Widdershins · 11-10-2018 8:40pm

Either you or ''The Left'' need to ''recognise'' the difference between sex and gender.
Right there is a prime example of why people dislike the current Leftist politics. It's completely illogical and yet arrogant with it.

Danzy · 12-10-2018 11:23am

super_furry wrote: »

There sometimes seems like there's a weird concerted effort to spread this far-right thinking here in After Hours and it's really not apparent anywhere else in Irish society, apart from maybe the comment section of The Journal.

I guess you'll blame that conspiracy on Mossad.

Always easier to pretend it is all a concerted effort. Couldn't be others think different

Shalom.

dr.fuzzenstein · 12-10-2018 11:55am

super_furry wrote: »

There sometimes seems like there's a weird concerted effort to spread this far-right thinking here in After Hours and it's really not apparent anywhere else in Irish society, apart from maybe the comment section of The Journal.

There is a definite rise of far right-wing populist governments in Europe:
(Note, I am talking about the loony fringe here)*

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36130006

Based on what? Well, the crash in 2008 (courtesy of one George W Bush) brought economic hardship and anyone standing up and shouting that it's all the fault of those dirty immigrants and if we vote for them, all our problems will disappear and we'll get back the shiny, plastic-fantastic world of the 1950's in glorious technicolor, netted themselves a nice bunch of votes.
And we'll sort out those queers and womenfolk who are getting a little too big for their boots anyway.

Reality WILL show that they are all rat-catchers and economic imbeciles. You disagree? Italy.
It's not that these people are stupid, but they are also not intelligent. They are devious, power-hungry, controlling and a bunch of psychopaths mostly. The rest are just happy to run along because they want to be on the "winning" side for once.
And their voters are either simpletons who believe anyone who just tells them "don't worry your pretty little head, vote for me and I'll put evrything right. I have easy and quick solutions for everything, just don't go asking me for details" or they know bloody well it's all politcal mumbo-jumbo, but they're hoping to just get a nice little windfall in their pockets and they don't care about whatever sh*t these guys are up to.

*Wibbs, of course there are loony left people, but they seem to be more obsessed with finding 17 gender pronouns fo their cat, rather than to supress minorities, gays, journalists, women and environmentalist scientists.
The far right, to my mind, is ALWAYS far more intolerant, bigotted and violent than the far left.
The last far left terror organisation was the RAF in Germany and they died out with the DDR, but violent Skinhead gangs are ten a penny. In Leipzig you couldn't throw a brick without hitting a Nazi skinhead.

Chris_Heilong · 12-10-2018 12:05pm

Can anyone explain what makes them far right-wing as opposed to just right wing?

ELM327 · 12-10-2018 12:56pm

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Can anyone explain what makes them far right-wing as opposed to just right wing?

The will of the left I think, Chris.

s7ryf3925pivug · 12-10-2018 12:58pm

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Can anyone explain what makes them far right-wing as opposed to just right wing?

I think of it roughly like this:

Right wing:
Reduce taxes and public spending - usually except police and military. In particular reduce welfare payments.
Protect traditional values and way of life.
Strong immigration controls.

Far right:
Discriminate against non-traditional non-national groups.
Militarisation often involved, in terms of cultural shift, draft... fascism by definition involves political violence.
Punitive measures applied against non-traditional behaviour, non traditional ethnic groups.
Extreme immigration controls.
Extreme cuts to public spending except police and military
Increased power given to police
Reduced accountability of the state to the citizenry

Chris_Heilong · 12-10-2018 1:05pm

Corinne Handsome Joint wrote: »

I think of it roughly like this:

Right wing:
Reduce taxes and public spending - usually except police and military. In particular reduce welfare payments.
Protect traditional values and way of life.
Strong immigration controls.

Far right:
Discriminate against non-traditional non-national groups.
Militarisation often involved, in terms of cultural shift, draft... fascism by definition involves political violence.
Punitive measures applied against non-traditional behaviour, non traditional ethnic groups.
Extreme immigration controls.
Extreme cuts to public spending except police and military
Increased power given to police
Reduced accountability of the state to the citizenry

Well that does not sound nice at all, although maybe the police could do with a little more power here.

Danzy · 12-10-2018 1:11pm

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Can anyone explain what makes them far right-wing as opposed to just right wing?

What could it be but fascism that would make someone non conform with much of the modern Left.

The Left wasn't always like that though.

Dissent is not fascism, nonconfirmity with all positions is not fsscism, disagreements or counter arguments are not fascism.

A very vocal and growing position in the Left disagrees.

The ones that agree are drowned out,keep quite orv are fewer than I imagine.

dr.fuzzenstein · 12-10-2018 1:57pm

ELM327 wrote: »

The will of the left I think, Chris.

Well there is obviously a difference between traditional, conservative, christian parties and foam at the mouth far-right loony rat catchers.

ELM327 · 12-10-2018 2:12pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Well there is obviously a difference between traditional, conservative, christian parties and foam at the mouth far-right loony rat catchers.

From left to right you've got:

Loony left (eg Antifa, social justice warriors, AAA/PBP ect)
Left wing - Normal people with a bias towards high taxes for "rich" and high government expenditure (from each according to his ability to pay, to each according to his need) often, but not always, secular

Centre - Generally people who don't really care enough to get involved
Right wing - Normal people with a bias towards lower taxes and lower government expenditure, often (but not always) conservative/religious. I count myself in this group
Extreme/far right (eg neo nazis etc)

jmayo · 12-10-2018 3:11pm

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

There is a definite rise of far right-wing populist governments in Europe:
(Note, I am talking about the loony fringe here)*

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36130006

Based on what? Well, the crash in 2008 (courtesy of one George W Bush) brought economic hardship and anyone standing up and shouting that it's all the fault of those dirty immigrants and if we vote for them, all our problems will disappear and we'll get back the shiny, plastic-fantastic world of the 1950's in glorious technicolor, netted themselves a nice bunch of votes.

Who has blamed the economic hardship due to fallout from economic crash on immigrants?
You keep claiming this, but I have yet to see anyone particularly around here claim this.

Or are you just listening to some gobshytes in the US bleating on about Make Merica Great or some eejits in UK claiming they would be economic powerhouse but for EU.

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

And we'll sort out those queers and womenfolk who are getting a little too big for their boots anyway.

Reality WILL show that they are all rat-catchers and economic imbeciles. You disagree? Italy.
It's not that these people are stupid, but they are also not intelligent. They are devious, power-hungry, controlling and a bunch of psychopaths mostly. The rest are just happy to run along because they want to be on the "winning" side for once.
And their voters are either simpletons who believe anyone who just tells them "don't worry your pretty little head, vote for me and I'll put evrything right. I have easy and quick solutions for everything, just don't go asking me for details" or they know bloody well it's all politcal mumbo-jumbo, but they're hoping to just get a nice little windfall in their pockets and they don't care about whatever sh*t these guys are up to.

You really do have a huge superiority complex going on.
And as I said pointedly earlier, Trump would never have made to the Whitehouse if he was just relying on racists and complete uneducated idiots.

And you gave a synopsis of how Hitler got to power, but you appear to have learned nothing from it.

These people get to power because people like you refuse to countenance that a lot of people are disillusioned with the establishment and what current political parties and leaders are offering.
And no it is not that people want to put gays back in a box or walk all over some minority ethnic group or other.

Maybe it has something to do with them losing their livelihoods and a future for their kids.
Maybe it has something to do with seeing a load of people arrive from God knows where and compete with them for what little low paid employment is open to them and for state funded education and welfare.
Maybe it is seeing dead on the streets of their country and being told that a facebook page and candle lit vigil will be how to fight back.

Of course to you they are bigots and racists because they should welcome someone with open arms that takes the job their kid might get, the home their kids might get, or jumps ahead of them in the queue for that operation and hospital bed.

Maybe if you actually really looked at history you would find that usually these people and their ancestors were the ones that overwhelmingly voted for the left and the political parties that brought you the gender equality, the state funded education and healthcare.

Now when they are needed, what are the left offering ?

More immigrants or even worse as has been evidenced somewhat in the UK, the toleration of people from certain immigrant communities being allowed to prey on their kids ala Rochdale, Rotherham, Newcastle, Telford, etc.
FFS a labour MP had to resign because she brought up the elephant with the fooking turban in the room, the fact the vast majority of the ones involved in those gangs were of a particular background.

All you do is complain they are idiots and attribute attitudes to them that aren't always true.

s7ryf3925pivug · 12-10-2018 3:23pm

I don't think it's right to equate centrism with disinterest. I think centrists are quite concerned by the emerging extremes on both wings.

ELM327 · 12-10-2018 3:26pm

Corinne Handsome Joint wrote: »

I don't think it's right to equate centrism with disinterest. I think centrists are quite concerned by the emerging extremes on both wings.

That's a fair point but centrism is marked by no leaning towards high or low taxation, levels of government spending or interference.
Surely if you're concerned and interested you'll pick a side, rather than "oh there's this problem ... well I'm staying neutral"

dr.fuzzenstein · 12-10-2018 3:26pm

ELM327 wrote: »

From left to right you've got:

Loony left (eg Antifa, social justice warriors, AAA/PBP ect)
Left wing - Normal people with a bias towards high taxes for "rich" and high government expenditure (from each according to his ability to pay, to each according to his need) often, but not always, secular

Centre - Generally people who don't really care enough to get involved
Right wing - Normal people with a bias towards lower taxes and lower government expenditure, often (but not always) conservative/religious. I count myself in this group
Extreme/far right (eg neo nazis etc)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ussCHoQttyQ

Though I feel the middle gets a bad deal, maybe they're the overlooked, smart, quiet middle-child who knew the answer all along, but everyone's too busy shouting at each other to listen to any kind of reason? I know I have.

ELM327 wrote: »

That's a fair point but centrism is marked by no leaning towards high or low taxation, levels of government spending or interference.
Surely if you're concerned and interested you'll pick a side, rather than "oh there's this problem ... well I'm staying neutral"

As this thread has demonstarated, maybe that's exactly the problem? I dig my trench over here, you dig your trench over there and we just hurl logial missiles at each other, but neither will concede or give in to the other, because "that's the other side and our side has to win".

Doctor Jimbob · 12-10-2018 3:31pm

ELM327 wrote: »

That's a fair point but centrism is marked by no leaning towards high or low taxation, levels of government spending or interference.
Surely if you're concerned and interested you'll pick a side, rather than "oh there's this problem ... well I'm staying neutral"

I suppose you'd have people who'd consider themselves centrist on the basis that they're (for example) economically right but socially left, or vice versa.

Wibbs · 12-10-2018 3:44pm

ELM327 wrote: »

That's a fair point but centrism is marked by no leaning towards high or low taxation, levels of government spending or interference.
Surely if you're concerned and interested you'll pick a side, rather than "oh there's this problem ... well I'm staying neutral"

For me it's not about "sides". Indeed picking sides and usually swallowing wholesale what "your" side has agreed is a large part of the problem.

For me anyway a centrist is someone who picks from a few sides and tries to avoid the extremes of either. I'd consider myself a centrist for the most part. In hard left terms I'd be a fascist in some ways, in hard right terms a commie

. I favour the welfare state and access to subsidised health and education. I certainly wouldn't want the daft and near criminal American system where a broken leg means the doctor can put down a deposit on a new Maserati, or where dialling for an ambulance can cost thousands. Sod that. I am in favour of government and society keeping out of people's private lives where it comes to sexuality. Gender too for that matter. Though I reserve the right to ask questions. I despise culturally mandated givens that must not be questioned. On the other hand I am not in favour of the push for "multiculturalism". It brings more negatives than positives once it gets beyond a certain level and I definitely don't want Ireland to repeat the clear daftness of that policy that has been running for a couple generations in Europe. On that score I would also be extremely culturist in my thinking. I most certainly do not consider all cultures to be equally valid.

ELM327 · 12-10-2018 3:45pm

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

I suppose you'd have people who'd consider themselves centrist on the basis that they're (for example) economically right but socially left, or vice versa.

That's me.
Economically far right, socially left. But the one thing I'd never consider myself is centrist! :pac:

pxdf9i5cmoavkz · 12-10-2018 4:45pm

While this theory tends to attract criticism its sometimes difficult to not argue it has a few merits.

The horseshoe theory asserts that the far left and the far right, rather than being at opposite and opposing ends of a linear political continuum, in fact closely resemble one another

There are far-left and far-right morons arguing to be separated from <their choice of ethnicity> which is exactly what the other side also wants. I suppose both sides are saying thanks?

The one thing that is also weird is anyone saying that this political divide can safely be ignored because it's "not here in Ireland". This is really short sighted and brings to mind the "Boiling Frog" metaphor. This divide is slow and insidious and not immediately noticeable. Year after year it becomes just that little bit more divided.

What is especially distasteful is the Culture of Shaming we find ourselves in. This is really the worst and I'm not sorry to say that the left shines in this area. It's something that needs to stop.

This world of ours seems to be developing into a cluster**** of narcissistic personality disorders. and yes, not everyone is like this, of course not everyone is like this and yet the consequences of offending a narcissist armed in a culture of shaming gives you this.

Chris_Heilong · 13-10-2018 12:40pm

Wibbs wrote: »

For me it's not about "sides". Indeed picking sides and usually swallowing wholesale what "your" side has agreed is a large part of the problem.

For me anyway a centrist is someone who picks from a few sides and tries to avoid the extremes of either. I'd consider myself a centrist for the most part. In hard left terms I'd be a fascist in some ways, in hard right terms a commie . I favour the welfare state and access to subsidised health and education. I certainly wouldn't want the daft and near criminal American system where a broken leg means the doctor can put down a deposit on a new Maserati, or where dialling for an ambulance can cost thousands. Sod that. I am in favour of government and society keeping out of people's private lives where it comes to sexuality. Gender too for that matter. Though I reserve the right to ask questions. I despise culturally mandated givens that must not be questioned. On the other hand I am not in favour of the push for "multiculturalism". It brings more negatives than positives once it gets beyond a certain level and I definitely don't want Ireland to repeat the clear daftness of that policy that has been running for a couple generations in Europe. On that score I would also be extremely culturist in my thinking. I most certainly do not consider all cultures to be equally valid.

That is correct, In an ideal world a system with the best elements of everything(a bit of capitalism here, a sprinkling of socialism there) is what we should be striving for IMO and the more centrists there are the better because in an ideological war between two sides we all end up losing.

The left this, the right that..

Comments