College Green Plaza -- public consultation open

MJohnston · 08-10-2018 2:36pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Passed through CG the other day, it really is a mess. Sooner the plaza goes ahead the better. Wondering what is the process if ABP give the go ahead- is their decision final or can it be appealed to the courts?

As long as ABP haven't fücked it up like they did with the St Anne's Park development, I don't think there's much recourse to be had. I also don't know who exactly would take it to the courts in this case, maybe a motoring group or something, but that seems unlikely.

Muahahaha · 08-10-2018 2:42pm

So all going to plan might it be built by the end of 2019? Be a great result if it is, it would really transform the area.

cgcsb · 08-10-2018 3:15pm

Shocking this has been allowed to go on, it should've been completed before LCC opened. Instead the earliest it'll be delivered is 2 years after LCC opened. At least it'll be closed to traffic soon enough, even if the streetscape isn't finished.

The streetscape in most of Dublin is a dogs dinner, way to many metal boxes, excessive polls, cheap stained and uneven paving, bags of recycling from businesses strewn across the street. If we can get this right, it should be a blueprint for the rest of the city.

bk · 08-10-2018 3:42pm

On the tourist thing. I'd agree that tourists don't look at particular details like those mentioned above. However when I think of my own trips, I do have an overall impression of a city. Oh, that was a really pleasant city, I'd love to go back or that was terrible.

And now that I think about it, it is the walk-ability of the city, how accessible it is, how easy it is to get around, how nice the outdoor areas are. A city like Prague, Amsterdam, which are highly walkable, I absolutely love and can't wait to return to and rave to other people about them. A city like Atlanta, yuck, horrible and never want to return to it and wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

Dublin feels like it fits in somewhere in between those two extremes. Not insane like Atlanta, but not very walkable either, too many cars and buses rushing by next to you all throughout the city center.

But I also agree we should be improving the fabric of our city for the locals first and foremost. Thing is though, what makes for a pleasant environment for tourists, usually makes for a pleasant environment for locals too, while making it easier to "sell".

cgcsb · 08-10-2018 3:46pm

On a more positive note, since LCC opened, I have to say Dawson St is absolutely gorgeous. My British colleague was visiting recently and commented on it also. The embarrassment that has been made of Grafton st, and the even worse half finished side streets off it would get you down all the same.

wakka12 · 08-10-2018 3:52pm

cgcsb wrote: »

On a more positive note, since LCC opened, I have to say Dawson St is absolutely gorgeous. My British colleague was visiting recently and commented on it also. The embarrassment that has been made of Grafton st, and the even worse half finished side streets off it would get you down all the same.

Yeh dawson street is so nice, it reminds me so much of west london except london has several hundred streets like it, Dublin should have more streets that look like it considering its wealth though

Muahahaha · 08-10-2018 4:20pm

I dont like Grafton St since that re-paving. Feels like it has lost its character.

Hurrache · 08-10-2018 4:28pm

It has had very little character for years with the amount of ****ty and tacky shopfronts on it.

cgcsb · 08-10-2018 4:48pm

The paving is horrific. Stained black in parts, looks filthy. It's the one street DCC could have spent a bit of money on the paving stones instead of cheaping out on us.

MJohnston · 08-10-2018 6:15pm

bk wrote: »

On the tourist thing. I'd agree that tourists don't look at particular details like those mentioned above. However when I think of my own trips, I do have an overall impression of a city. Oh, that was a really pleasant city, I'd love to go back or that was terrible.

And now that I think about it, it is the walk-ability of the city, how accessible it is, how easy it is to get around, how nice the outdoor areas are. A city like Prague, Amsterdam, which are highly walkable, I absolutely love and can't wait to return to and rave to other people about them. A city like Atlanta, yuck, horrible and never want to return to it and wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

Dublin feels like it fits in somewhere in between those two extremes. Not insane like Atlanta, but not very walkable either, too many cars and buses rushing by next to you all throughout the city center.

But I also agree we should be improving the fabric of our city for the locals first and foremost. Thing is though, what makes for a pleasant environment for tourists, usually makes for a pleasant environment for locals too, while making it easier to "sell".

I agree with the last bit and that's the most important thing, it's just when people's first instinct is to worry "what will the tourists think", I think it's pretty pointless (much like most "what will x think" ponderings).

Like New York Citt has to be one of the least pleasant places to walk, horrific traffic, and the whole place is filthy and cluttered. Yet I still absolutely love it.

L1011 · 08-10-2018 6:17pm

cgcsb wrote: »

The paving is horrific. Stained black in parts, looks filthy. It's the one street DCC could have spent a bit of money on the paving stones instead of cheaping out on us.

If they cleaned them they'd be fine

The few remaining streets with the red and white slip hazards look awful, it dated extremely badly. They are taking forever to do the replacement

monument · 08-10-2018 9:19pm

L1011 wrote: »

If they cleaned them they'd be fine

It’s next to impossible to keep unpolished grey granite clean and free of stains.

They would have been far better off picking a red, yellow, orange, green or even mixed colour stone. Dark grey might have worked better for cleaning but would be too dark and black would be doing a full circle and would be hard too keep clean if anything of colour was spilt on it.

Grey is cheap stone.

cgcsb · 09-10-2018 9:12am

L1011 wrote: »

If they cleaned them they'd be fine

The few remaining streets with the red and white slip hazards look awful, it dated extremely badly. They are taking forever to do the replacement

the decrepit red brick mixed with patches of tarmac are worse of course, but at least that's due to age. The Grafton paving is brand new and is a disaster.

L1011 · 09-10-2018 5:56pm

The red and white was nasty when new and maintained as well as dangerous in the rain - which is so rare here!

L1011 · 10-10-2018 5:07am

The existing access hours for shops need to be extended earlier when this happens - in Grafton Street for work right now and there are already goods vehicles in an hour early and they'll be pushed to be gone by 10

Neworder79 · 10-10-2018 10:43am

L1011 wrote: »

The red and white was nasty when new and maintained as well as dangerous in the rain - which is so rare here!

Everyone has their preference but I smile every time I see the remaining red brick + cream trim left on Exchequer st. Understand it had maintanance issues and long needed replacing. But visually it felt premium...soft, warm, colourful and inviting. It complimented the red brick buildings of the area. To me it gave a unique carachter and united the city center shopping area differentiating from regular pavements.

To replace it with the chosen bland recession grey stone was a real downgrade visually. May aswell have been concrete. It feels cheap, signals that this is just any other street, looks wet and ugly most of the time hilighting dirt and stains. Sad, as donald would say.

monument · 10-10-2018 11:59am

Regardless of the reasoning for its choice of it being cheap or in vogue etc, unpolished light and less so mid grey stone is the quickest granite to look dirty and easiest to stain.

Councils need to stop using it.

wakka12 · 10-10-2018 11:45pm

I think everyone is overreacting about the loss of the red brick paving, I think that looked messy and dirty and I think grafton street still looks messy and dirty, so no loss

cgcsb · 11-10-2018 10:00am

I'm not mourning the loss of red brick, I'm mourning from the vandalism DCC has committed with its cheap paving.

celtcia · 11-10-2018 12:06pm

I like blue stone! You people?

Marcusm · 11-10-2018 5:47pm

L1011 wrote: »

The red and white was nasty when new and maintained as well as dangerous in the rain - which is so rare here!

Was it really that bad? I can remember staring at Weir’s at St Patrick’s weekend in1988 as they were being installed (I think the Milltown Cemetery shooting was earlier in the day) and some scrotes picked up some uninstalled bricks and heaved them through Switzer’s Window. Proper maintenance, replacement like for like would I imagine have kept them better. Not even sure where the granite comes from but i’d Have loved to see Kilkenny limestone used. The whole More London development is paved in it in London and it seems to be holding up very well after 13 years or more.

Telchak · 17-10-2018 10:43am

Permission refused by ABP.

http://irishcycle.com/2018/10/17/breaking-college-green-plaza-refused-permission/

Hurrache · 17-10-2018 10:44am

Here's the link to their documents related to the refusal
http://www.pleanala.ie/news//JA0039/JA0039.htm

MJohnston · 17-10-2018 10:53am

Unsurprising - this project was dead as soon as elements with DCC got their payoffs from the car lobby on the Quays car ban.

Hurrache · 17-10-2018 10:57am

Traffic consideration seems to be the main reason it was rejected alright.

Infini · 17-10-2018 11:15am

Hurrache wrote: »

Traffic consideration seems to be the main reason it was rejected alright.

Honestly it shouldn't be a suprise here the other streets just arent capable of taking the traffic from closing it off. Town is a nightmare to get through as it is without more restrictions to traffic.

AlanG · 17-10-2018 11:20am

The reasons for refusal seem very logical and well thought out. The plan was too aspirational with a lack of planning on how daily users of the city would be impacted. It seemed to be a marque project for tourists and weekend visitors which would have a very negative impact on daily commuters.

cgcsb · 17-10-2018 11:21am

Shame. If DCC wasn't so corrupt the quays car ban could've solved the traffic issue and the plaza would have gotten through planning, no problem.

I hope those councilors enjoy their payouts. Time for NTA to take control of these projects, another function of local government removed due to inability to deliver.

I look forward to a fresh application in 2020.

MJohnston · 17-10-2018 11:21am

Infini wrote: »

Honestly it shouldn't be a suprise here the other streets just arent capable of taking the traffic from closing it off. Town is a nightmare to get through as it is without more restrictions to traffic.

It's a nightmare to get through because of the traffic. We should be focusing on improving things for buses and trams, not cars.

KD345 · 17-10-2018 11:28am

This is the right decision IMO, they examined the impact and realised the negatives it would have on surrounding areas. As a bus user this plan would have been disasterous for services.

College Green Plaza -- public consultation open

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