International Men's Day 19th November

Deleted User wrote: »

Look, I have explained this in detail already over the last few posts.

Just because I dislike the bastardisation of serious men's issues for social gain, doesn't mean I don't care about the issues.

Why are you letting that ****e cloud your judgment of what is essentially a good cause on the day for men's health and general well being?

International Men's Day is spoken about more on International Women's day than it is any other day of the year - because so many ask when International Men's Day is. Yet, when someone tries to raise awareness of it, it gets more negative responses than positive.

I understand people get annoyed and frustrated by people using these days to look like they care without actually doing anything. I get fed up of hearing people pay lip service to mental health, and telling people to talk and seek help when the services aren't available. However I think talking about it might be something men need.

Earlier this year I worked on an ad campaign to promote a mental health service to men over 40. I also recently had a stand at a mental health event - some of the people were there because they were brought by their employers.

What I noticed is that the women were far more comfortable coming up to talk about their experiences, whereas the men were more likely to ask a question regarding helping a family member. I was talking to my dad about it afterwards and he said what I thought - if men are there with work colleagues many of them would feel too embarrassed to be seen to need help for their own mental wellbeing.

So, maybe talking about IMD is doing something. Maybe talking about it and the issues that impact men might make the men in your life feel a little bit less embarrassed, or a little more able to reach out. If someone dismisses the idea of IMD - it might come across that they are dismissive of issues affecting men in general. I don't believe that to be the case - but it just might be worth having that thought in the back of your mind if a man tries to talk about IMD to you this year. Your reaction really might make a difference to that person.

buckwheat wrote: »

What a load of steaming horse ****

Imo:)

Agreed.
A load of bollocks .
We dont need menstrual days and womens days...we have enough in Christmas and birthdays, let alone all the other shyte, valentines etc.

JupiterKid wrote: »

I think International Mens Day is a great idea.

Look people... it's not about gender wars or points scoring or being "woke" (whatever the hell that means) - it's about having a day where men's and boy's issues are highlighted and discussed. And men's mental health, suicide and health issues in general really need to be talked about.

You say all that JK, and I know you know well what woke means, no need to be disingenuous, you’re around Boards long enough to be aware that it’s been explained numerous times - it’s exactly what you’re doing above, and what you followed it up with is exactly why people are critical of the nonsense of these ideas like international men’s day and international women’s day and all the other days that are purported to be for their benefit.

JupiterKid wrote: »

I bet many of those posters dissing Intl Mens Day are the very same ones cribbing about how feminism has emasculated manhood and that men get a raw deal in life these days.

Sometimes us men are our own worst enemies...

Yeah, not about gender wars or point scoring you say? And then you come out with that crap about anyone who is critical of what you think is a great idea. It’s only a great idea because you get a bit of attention from your peers who think these days are a great idea too where you all get to pat yourselves on the back for how woke you are and how anyone who disagrees with you are only cribbing about feminism and men are their own worst enemies.

You really think anyone wants to listen to you tell them they’re their own worst enemy? Blindboy tried peddling that same craic on the Late Late and while the plastic bag on his bonce wasn’t transparent, his motivations for saying young men need feminism certainly were - it’s the kind of rhetoric that plays well with the social justice crowd. He needs that recognition because the young men he makes a living taking the the piss out of are sick of his shìt. Like everyone else he knows he has to pay the bills somehow, and for him punching down is how he does it for his new found champagne socialist audience, not unlike what you’re doing.

I don’t pretend to speak for anyone else and that’s how I see these “international days” - they’re not for the benefit of the people they claim to be benefiting at all, they’re for the benefit of people who want to appear as though they care about other people.

One eyed Jack wrote: »

You say all that JK, and I know you know well what woke means, no need to be disingenuous, you’re around Boards long enough to be aware that it’s been explained numerous times - it’s exactly what you’re doing above, and what you followed it up with is exactly why people are critical of the nonsense of these ideas like international men’s day and international women’s day and all the other days that are purported to be for their benefit.





Yeah, not about gender wars or point scoring you say? And then you come out with that crap about anyone who is critical of what you think is a great idea. It’s only a great idea because you get a bit of attention from your peers who think these days are a great idea too where you all get to pat yourselves on the back for how woke you are and how anyone who disagrees with you are only cribbing about feminism and men are their own worst enemies.

You really think anyone wants to listen to you tell them they’re their own worst enemy? Blindboy tried peddling that same craic on the Late Late and while the plastic bag on his bonce wasn’t transparent, his motivations for saying young men need feminism certainly were - it’s the kind of rhetoric that plays well with the social justice crowd. He needs that recognition because the young men he makes a living taking the the piss out of are sick of his shìt. Like everyone else he knows he has to pay the bills somehow, and for him punching down is how he does it for his new found champagne socialist audience, not unlike what you’re doing.

I don’t pretend to speak for anyone else and that’s how I see these “international days” - they’re not for the benefit of the people they claim to be benefiting at all, they’re for the benefit of people who want to appear as though they care about other people.

Yourself and the other poster seem awfully cross about these kinds of people.

Can ye not just ignore them?

I can guarantee you the visibility of IMD will be of great benefit to those men who are at a low point and just may want to reach out.

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Yourself and the other poster seem awfully cross about these kinds of people.

Can ye not just ignore them?

I generally don’t have to ignore them as they only emerge when it’s coming up to the one day of the year when they want everyone to know they care. The rest of the year they stay within their own echo chambers smelling their own farts.

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

I can guarantee you the visibility of IMD will be of great benefit to those men who are at a low point and just may want to reach out.

No you can’t. You can’t guarantee anything because that guarantee would be based upon the assumption that men are somewhat of a hive mind. It might help some people, it might make other people who are at a low point and want to reach out, feel worse, and feel like they can’t reach out. There’s no way of guaranteeing any outcome of anything.

If what you’re arguing were the case and you wanted to argue that IWD and IMD highlight issues like the rising suicide rates of self harm and suicide among children, women and men (as just one example of an issue common to these “international days”), then it would be reasonable to conclude we would see a decrease in these suicide rates among the various demographics. We’re not seeing a decrease, we’re seeing the rates increasing exponentially.

It would appear that these “international days” are having the complete opposite of their purported intent if you want to associate them with having an effect on the issues you claim they’re intended to address.

El_Duderino 09 wrote:

We all pick our battles and you seem to be demonstrating your priority. Wouldn’t you just use the day to accentuate the things you care about?

No thanks. I see no reason to change anything about how I deal with the things I care about. I would rather not "use" men's issues. And please ease up on your passive aggressive tone. You are either aware of your posting tone and choose to be the same on every thread or alternatively you are painfully unaware how caustic you come across.

El_Duderino 09 wrote:

Why do you care more about “the pricks using the day to boost their own standing†(as arbitrarily adjudicated by yourself), than the impact of the day and the potential to raise awareness and capitalise on the information for the rest of the year? So you see someone on Facebook who is raising awareness of important issues and you worry more about whether they’re a “prick†than the value of the message.

As others have pointed out, some people are negatively affected by seeing people use their problems as a way to boost their own standing. People I know. So yes, I care about that.

You might have a different experience and that's fine, but I don't like the idea of IMD.

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

So you remain friends with them and follow them on social media the rest of the year? Fair enough.

Dear God no, Boards and LinkedIn are the extent of anything I have to do with social media, I don’t want to know what anyone is promoting this week, or whatever the case may be as regards their online social justice advocacy. Frankly I generally don’t spend that much time talking about these things in my daily interactions with other people. Used to when I actually worked in social care, but not any more as it was doing my own mental health no favours working in that environment.

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

It would be crazy to think that IMD, the initiative, can suddenly reduce suicide rates in men. It can only really serve to highlight the issues and hopefully get people talking about them, which funnily enough, you and I are doing right now.

We’re not talking about the issues though, we’re talking about IMD and whether it does all that much to address the issues it’s proponents are advocating for. I don’t think it does, and there is no evidence to suggest that it does anything of the sort of claims you’re making. People are aware of these issues already because people are living with them. That might seem like I’m stating the obvious but all too often the idea seems to be more concerned with highlighting issues, and no acknowledgement of the fact that just being a decent person is one way of addressing a multitude of these issues. In effect - practice what you preach.

The point being that for all the talk about these issues, that talking doesn’t appear to translate into action. It’s as though people care more about how they are perceived on social media as opposed to actually having to interact with people experiencing the issues they advocate for. It’s a bit like JupiterKids earlier observation that apparently men are their own worst enemy. I don’t see that as particularly helpful as it suggests that JupiterKid knows what’s better for men than actually having to listen to what men are saying. Most men in my experience simply cannot relate to feminism in it’s current incarnation. It’s not any fear of emasculation, it’s simply that it makes no sense to them. They’re not alone, it makes about as much sense to me too as IMD.

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

I can guarantee that the visibility of IMD will help men reach out or a lest consider seeking help. I see no harm in it.

My issue with what you’re saying is that you appear to be exaggerating the effect of the phenomenon as though it’s self-fulfilling. My view is more nuanced than that - it might make some men reach out, it might make some men and women feel worse about themselves. For the vast majority of people though, the evidence is that these days make not one iota of a difference in their lives. They don’t talk about the issues you wish they would talk about from your perspective, as they’re generally too busy trying to keep their heads above water in their own lives to have time to concern themselves with anyone else’s life or any of these social issues that a minority of people care about. Their concerns are more immediate and more closer to home than thinking about international social justice issues.

That being said, the only reason I see no harm in IMD is because I don’t think too many people have any interest in it in the first place, any more than they have any interest in the fact that it’s also the day I was born.

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

This all smacks of outrage just for the sake of it TBH. I couldn't give a toss if Mary or Sean share a bollocks inspirational quote on FB or whatever or change their frame to IMD to garner likes; all I care about is that the day itself hammers home the message that there is help out there if you wish to avail of it and that you are not alone.

I don’t care about any of that stuff either, and I’m certainly not prone to outrage. No, my issue is with people who latch on to every cause trending on social media who appear to be more interested in advertising thermselves, as opposed to advertising the cause they’re advocating for this week. Next week it’ll be something else. That’s the point. I couldn’t care less generally, but when it comes up on Boards, I’ll give my opinion on how ineffective these days actually appear to be, and contrary to El_D’s belief - the only capitalising that appears to be going on is self-promotion, as opposed to any interest in the people experiencing the issues these people are using to promote themselves.

The reality is of course that most people are dealing with these issues on a daily basis as opposed to needing them highlighted on any particular day of the year, or a whole week, or a whole month promoting these issues. Everyone is already doing what they can to make people’s lives better for the people they care about. They don’t need to be told they’re their own worst enemy, because that’s a shìtty thing to say to anyone IMO.