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Ryanair Strike implications re Cancellations NO INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS POSTS

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    #1922
    Bazzy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,484 ✭✭✭Bazzy


    Things have gone very quiet on the Ryanair news front , is it to be assumed all is well in camp?


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    #1923
    Bob24
    Registered Users Posts: 10,905 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    Bazzy wrote: »
    Things have gone very quiet on the Ryanair news front , is it to be assumed all is well in camp?

    Recognising unions seems to have dodged the strike bullet for now, but apparently unions/pilots are not too happy with how talk are going:

    https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2018/0119/934627-ryanair/
    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/ryanair-and-trade-union-f%C3%B3rsa-clash-over-pay-increase-offer-1.3360221
    https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/ryanair-engaged-in-negative-talks-with-unions-pilots-representation-36555539.html

    So it seems like we are out of acute crisis mode for now, but it could come back in the future.


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    #1924
    View Profile
    Registered Users Posts: 1,133 ✭✭✭View Profile


    Bazzy wrote:
    Things have gone very quiet on the Ryanair news front , is it to be assumed all is well in camp?


    All is not well.

    Negotiations with management are going very slowly. In Ireland, Forsa (formerly Impact) have yet to be officially recognised by Ryanair as the trade union for their pilots. (Management are fixated on IALPA being a purely Aer Lingus entity and so they refuse to engage with them on any level)

    Ryanair management are instead busy trying to force through individual deals with pilots, one on one, rather than through collective bargaining.

    It will be a long and difficult road for the pilots. And if MOL wants to restore market confidence in the airline he's going to have to swallow his stubbornness and allow staff to have fair terms and conditions in-line with Ryanairs competitor airlines.


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    #1925
    View Profile
    Registered Users Posts: 1,133 ✭✭✭View Profile


    Ryanair pilot council sends letter to MOL requesting his resignation over failure to resolve crewing issues.

    https://www.independent.ie/business/council-representing-ryanair-pilots-calls-on-michael-oleary-to-resign-36642088.html


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    #1926
    View Profile
    Registered Users Posts: 1,133 ✭✭✭View Profile


    http://theportugalnews.com/news/ryanairs-portugal-cabin-crew-look-set-to-go-ahead-with-easter-strikes/45160

    Cabin crew in a Portugal begin a 3 day strike today as negotiations with management were "fruitless".


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    #1927
    IngazZagni
    Registered Users Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭IngazZagni


    Multiple cancellations in Portugal today. Many other flights delayed and operated by non portugease crews.

    Well done to the Ryanair cabin crew for sticking up for themselves over their appalling T's&C's. They deserve better while working for such a highly profitable company.


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    #1928
    JCX BXC
    Registered Users Posts: 18,105 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    IngazZagni wrote: »
    Multiple cancellations in Portugal today. Many other flights delayed and operated by non portugease crews.

    I can only find 2 cancellations in the whole of Portugal so far today, both from Porto and both to France. Is this 'Multiple Cancellations'? It seems very tame actually in my opinion.


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    #1929
    IngazZagni
    Registered Users Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭IngazZagni


    JCX BXC wrote: »
    I can only find 2 cancellations in the whole of Portugal so far today, both from Porto and both to France. Is this 'Multiple Cancellations'? It seems very tame actually in my opinion.

    12 flights cancelled so far according to the Ryanair website. Many other flights were due to depart at 6am but still have not and are not listed as cancelled as they are hoping they can fly crews in from other countries to do it at some stage today. The Porto to Dublin flight due to depart at midday still hasn't left for example too. I applaud all cabin crew taking part.


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    #1930
    View Profile
    Registered Users Posts: 1,133 ✭✭✭View Profile


    According to the Portuguese Union it is illegal to bring in an external labour force during a strike.
    So Ryanair is breaking Portuguese law an liable to legal action.


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    #1931
    JCX BXC
    Registered Users Posts: 18,105 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    View Profile wrote: »
    According to the Portuguese Union it is illegal to bring in an external labour force during a strike.
    So Ryanair is breaking Portuguese law an liable to legal action.

    It's not an external workforce if they all work for the same company!


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    #1932
    IngazZagni
    Registered Users Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭IngazZagni


    JCX BXC wrote: »
    It's not an external workforce if they all work for the same company!
    Many Ryanair cabin crew don't work for Ryanair. They work for external agencies as self employed contractors many of whom on zero hour contracts. Same goes for pilots and other positions.


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    #1933
    JCX BXC
    Registered Users Posts: 18,105 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    IngazZagni wrote: »
    Many Ryanair cabin crew don't work for Ryanair. They work for external agencies as self employed contractors many of whom on zero hour contracts. Same goes for pilots and other positions.

    Right.

    Your personal hatrid for the company doesn't affect law I'm afraid.


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    #1934
    IngazZagni
    Registered Users Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭IngazZagni


    JCX BXC wrote: »
    Right.

    Your personal hatrid for the company doesn't affect law I'm afraid.

    I don't hate the company. Far from it. It is one of the best Irish success stories ever. MOL is a genius. I use them regularly but I also know they treat many staff poorly and I want that to change. The company will make a profit well north of 1 Billion euro this year so they should invest in their staff. Then it'll be a company everyone can be proud of.

    As for law allow the Portuguese unions deal with that in this instance.


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    #1935
    Bob24
    Registered Users Posts: 10,905 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    JCX BXC wrote: »
    It's not an external workforce if they all work for the same company!

    I’d say a Portuguese judge would be more qualified to make such a definite statement. I have no idea but the law could well consider that someone who doesn’t have an employment contract with the company in Portugal is considered external workforce in this situation.


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    #1936
    LeChienMefiant
    Registered Users Posts: 620 ✭✭✭LeChienMefiant


    IngazZagni wrote: »
    As for law allow the Portuguese unions deal with that in this instance.
    Or maybe the courts of law / judiciary? The union statement re workers conditions is unclear for starters (are they talking about Portuguese workers or all workers flying into Portugal), then their proclamations re scab labour is further dubious.


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    #1937
    View Profile
    Registered Users Posts: 1,133 ✭✭✭View Profile


    Each base has a different contract with the company (Ryanair/Crewlink)so you as an employee have to abide by that country's employment law.
    Luckily Portuguese employment law favours employees rather than employers (unlike backward Ireland) so they receive more protection.
    Apparently the Portuguese police are involved with preventing these Spanish based crews operating the Portuguese flights.


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    #1938
    IngazZagni
    Registered Users Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭IngazZagni


    LeChienMefiant wrote: »
    Or maybe the courts of law / judiciary? The union statement re workers conditions is unclear for starters (are they talking about Portuguese workers or all workers flying into Portugal), then their proclamations re scab labour is further dubious.

    Well yes of course. I meant they will be providing legal representation for the cabin crew.

    Ryanair however will try and get the case to be heard in Ireland under Irish employment law as they always do as our labour laws are more lax.


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    #1939
    Bob24
    Registered Users Posts: 10,905 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    Latest count seems to be 20 flight cancellations in Portugal today: https://www.reuters.com/article/ryanair-strike/update-1-ryanair-cancels-20-portugal-flights-as-cabin-crew-strike-idUSL8N1RB63L


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    #1940
    IngazZagni
    Registered Users Posts: 1,586 ✭✭✭IngazZagni


    Bob24 wrote: »
    Latest count seems to be 20 flight cancellations in Portugal today: https://www.reuters.com/article/ryanair-strike/update-1-ryanair-cancels-20-portugal-flights-as-cabin-crew-strike-idUSL8N1RB63L

    Plus many many other flights with long delays. For example the Porto to Dublin flight is currently in the air with a delay of 10 hours and being operated by an Irish based crew.


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    #1941
    View Profile
    Registered Users Posts: 1,133 ✭✭✭View Profile


    https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0618/971426-ryanair/

    Irish pilots preparing to strike again for better treatment.


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    #1942
    SleetAndSnow
    Registered Users Posts: 4,677 ✭✭✭SleetAndSnow


    View Profile wrote: »
    https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0618/971426-ryanair/

    Irish pilots preparing to strike again for better treatment.

    Would most likely affect next month if voted through, the busiest month for tourism etc. Hopefully not!


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    #1943
    View Profile
    Registered Users Posts: 1,133 ✭✭✭View Profile


    SleetAndSnow wrote:
    Would most likely affect next month if voted through, the busiest month for tourism etc. Hopefully not!


    Irish law requires 7 days notice before industrial action commences so could potentially be next week.


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    #1944
    kevinandrew
    Registered Users Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭kevinandrew


    There's trouble brewing in Spain, talks are due tomorrow to avert a potential 3 day cabin crew strike. 

    https://www.euroweeklynews.com/news/on-euro-weekly-news/spain-news-in-english/1473011-ryanair-cabin-crew-summer-strike-set-to-affect-115,000-passengers-a-day-in-spain-alone#.WzKhaqXvu2J.twitter

    Slightly closer to home, a member of Ryanair crew appears to holding a one man strike outside Dublin Airport today. There's images of him on social media sitting on the grass in full uniform holding a piece of paper stating he's on hunger, water and silent strike, apparently over pay and conditions. Whatever his reasoning or state of health, I'd worry about his wellbeing sitting in the heat all day and he already appears very sunburnt. 

    https://twitter.com/Sarahoneill1234/status/1011685657796927490

    Disgruntled employee? Genuinely unhappy with progress for crew? Whatever the reason I hope he's home by now.


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    #1945
    CoisFharraige
    Registered Users Posts: 216 ✭✭CoisFharraige


    kevinandrew wrote: »

    Disgruntled employee? Genuinely unhappy with progress for crew? Whatever the reason I hope he's home by now.

    Do you know anything about their working conditions? It sounds like you're belittling him by the tone I'm getting, if not I apologise. Fair play to him.


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    #1946
    kevinandrew
    Registered Users Posts: 1,202 ✭✭✭kevinandrew


    CoisFharraige wrote: »
    kevinandrew wrote: »

    Disgruntled employee? Genuinely unhappy with progress for crew? Whatever the reason I hope he's home by now.

    Do you know anything about their working conditions? It sounds like you're belittling him by the tone I'm getting, if not I apologise. Fair play to him.
    Not my intention at all. I was genuinely worried, everyone who spoke to him said he was sound but you can never know in these situations. 

    As for my knowledge of conditions at Ryanair... a year as cabin crew with them was enough for me!


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    #1947
    Bob24
    Registered Users Posts: 10,905 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    kevinandrew wrote: »
    Not my intention at all. I was genuinely worried, everyone who spoke to him said he was sound but you can never know in these situations. 

    I’m actually genuinely wondering what is motivation is for doing this.

    It is clear that on his own he won’t have much impact. Is he hoping the plublicity will encourage his colleagues and trigger a larger protest? Has he decided to leave the company anyway and is he doing this for the laugh? Or something else?

    I’m really curious ...


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    #1948
    CoisFharraige
    Registered Users Posts: 216 ✭✭CoisFharraige


    https://prnt.sc/k069em

    Printed pages he has (he's still there as of 2300) with the requests he has proposed - more or less the CBA that is being pushed in the whole company by CC.


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    #1949
    Padraig Mor
    Registered Users Posts: 9,532 ✭✭✭Padraig Mor


    From a purely selfish point of view, I'm breathing a sigh of relief that it's on the 12th - as myself and family are flying on the 11th.


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    #1950
    theteal
    Registered Users Posts: 7,593 ✭✭✭theteal


    So is it safe to assume that this strike is for the 24 hours of Thursday the 12th? Friday the 13th is flights as normal?

    Another selfish view, I could well be spending that weekend in Edinburgh on my own otherwise


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    #1951
    Mr rebel
    Registered Users Posts: 532 ✭✭✭Mr rebel


    Padraig Mor wrote: »
    From a purely selfish point of view, I'm breathing a sigh of relief that it's on the 12th - as myself and family are flying on the 11th.

    Lucky you.
    I am supposed to be flying with them to Berlin on the 12th....obviously won't be happening now. I hope I will at least get a refund for the flight


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