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Treating paedophiles

2

Comments

  • #32
    euser1984
    Registered Users Posts: 1,977 ✭✭✭euser1984


    I think they need understanding before treatment becomes an option. perhaps an understanding that way they feel is normal for many humans? it's a case of identifying the ones then that have the potential to cause problems for children....often times the reason they can act on these causes thought is because of problems in their own upbringing or enviorment.....blaming them will not fix the problem and certainly not destroying them as a human being for behaving in certain ways.....many parts of a persons personality and behaviour aren't from their own free will originally, we behave in certain ways due to automatic reactions. take tourettes for example.

    these people cannot be allowed express themselves this way in society when they do act on that free will but peoples habits can even change to brain trauma or damage. these causes need to be taken into account.

    perhaps it's a case of education and awareness that parents and children need to be given, so they can identify people that are willing to take the step towards damaging a victim? once that step is taken a decision should be made as to whether that person needs to be locked up or not....or research into why this person developed in such a way that they made a decision to do what they do.....


  • #33
    JuliusCaesar
    Registered Users Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭JuliusCaesar


    Unfortunately, we as a nation, as a society, have an awful track record in protecting the children of the nation, the old, the infirm, the vulnerable. We have scandal after scandal emerging, and yet no money or will to provide proper services for the vulnerable of the land. We do not care about how the present traumas will impact on people in 10 or 20 or 30 years' time. Given the deficits in housing, education, social services, I can't help but think that any sensible intervention for these men and the causes of their abnormal sexuality is down at the bottom of the list and will never make it half-way up.


  • #34
    euser1984
    Registered Users Posts: 1,977 ✭✭✭euser1984


    I'm beginning to think that due to populist political ideas coming to fruition and the ability of the internet to allow access to alternative news media (truth non biased is something i'm working on at the moment; in terms of gathering information on certain types of things and not adding opinion pieces; but making it available for independent journalists or independent media outlets).... most the people on the street hate these kind of problems and just want the bloody things dealt with once and for all but everyone is afraid to say anything.....not me though....pm me if you would like more information on getting such sources of information available in a centralized location for independent analysis.


  • #35
    JuliusCaesar
    Registered Users Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭JuliusCaesar


    https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201511/sympathy-the-deviant


  • #36
    euser1984
    Registered Users Posts: 1,977 ✭✭✭euser1984


    JuliusCaesar wrote: »
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/201511/sympathy-the-deviant

    Do you know if there are mainstream media outlets in the country that print this kind of information for the citizens?


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  • #37
    JuliusCaesar
    Registered Users Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭JuliusCaesar


    https://medium.com/matter/youre-16-youre-a-pedophile-you-dont-want-to-hurt-anyone-what-do-you-do-now-e11ce4b88bdb#.7no1fa53w


  • #38
    YoungRogerian
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭YoungRogerian


    I only skimmed through but this looks interesting and could potentially be revolutionary. Whatever people think, paedophilia exists as a phenomenon and if we can treat people before it becomes a potential danger then that can only be a good thing. The main problem I see is stigma. I have no doubt there are people there who are paedophiles by inclination but have no desire to harm kids, are they going to put their head above the parapet? Probably not.


  • #39
    JuliusCaesar
    Registered Users Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭JuliusCaesar


    YoungRogerian, if you had read the thread... yes, people who have paedophiliac tendencies do seek therapy to overcome it if they are given assurances of confidentiality.


  • #40
    YoungRogerian
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭YoungRogerian


    I actually did read the thread and was just giving an opinion, no need to be rude.


  • #41
    JuliusCaesar
    Registered Users Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭JuliusCaesar


    Er, you said you had skimmed the thread. :rolleyes:


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  • #42
    dar100
    Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭dar100


    JuliusCaesar wrote: »
    Er, you said you had skimmed the thread. :rolleyes:

    :):):)


  • #43
    YoungRogerian
    Registered Users Posts: 61 ✭✭YoungRogerian


    No. I said I only skimmed through, by which I meant the presentation. That you ASSUMED I meant the thread was you not reading properly. :P In any event, just saying people might be slow to stick their head over the parapet as a paedophile given the hysteria you mentioned.


  • #44
    Paxton Noisy Reaction
    Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭ Paxton Noisy Reaction


    Is it possible, or likely, as I have seen elsewhere mentioned, that paedophilia is a mental illness and should be treated as?

    I am sure the paedophiles don't want to be attracted to childs, but can't help it. Like (and I expect this is danger territory) homosexuals are a deviation from the percieved normal, are peadophiles a similar deviation?

    If gambling and alcohol are a disease of the mind, are sex deviations also?

    I don't know, but it seems possible to me that it would be an illness that should be treated, and maybe if there was program in place without judgment, they would get help and not offend?

    In classical times it was as normal for a person to have a child lover as a same sex lover. I don't know if they were seen as deviant though.


  • #45
    Faith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,654 Mod ✭✭✭✭Faith


    Oof. That's a big question. I've done quite a bit of research in the area in a previous job, and it does seem that you can trace the origin of the sexual interest in children back to significant events during childhood for many offenders. There are sex offender treatment programs (SOTP), and I imagine a therapeutic focus would involve formulating around the development and maintaining factors of the attraction. But I don't know of any statistics about the success rates of SOTPs, or how possible it is actually reshape someone's sexual orientation. It certainly conjures up uncomfortable images of awful "gay conversion treatments" based on punishment and shame.

    I think it would be theoretically possible to help someone who found themselves feeling sexually attracted to children, but it'll be a long time before society in general would be open to such a thing. It would also require a person to be enormously motivated and reflective, and I'm not sure how often that goes hand-in-hand with somebody who can engage in sexual acts with children.


  • #46
    shaunr68
    Registered Users Posts: 555 ✭✭✭shaunr68


    Paedophilia itself is not a crime as far as I'm aware. Acting on these desires however is another matter. I'm sure I've heard cases of individuals who sought medical help in order to prevent them from offending, even to the extent of undergoing voluntary chemical castration.


  • #47
    boombang
    Registered Users Posts: 2,108 ✭✭✭boombang


    Enlightened post I think OP

    I heard a very interesting programme on BBC radio 4 describing how research in Germany (I think) has shown a link between such tendencies and being short. The theory seemed to be IRRC that some stress in the womb meant that the child might be developmentally as intended, leading to deviated sexual preferences. Clearly that's not the be all and end all, but it seems to be something.

    I think the simplistic view of paedophiles as monsters is totally counter productive and research such as this should be supported.


  • #48
    Paxton Noisy Reaction
    Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭ Paxton Noisy Reaction


    Faith wrote: »
    Oof. That's a big question. I've done quite a bit of research in the area in a previous job, and it does seem that you can trace the origin of the sexual interest in children back to significant events during childhood for many offenders. There are sex offender treatment programs (SOTP), and I imagine a therapeutic focus would involve formulating around the development and maintaining factors of the attraction. But I don't know of any statistics about the success rates of SOTPs, or how possible it is actually reshape someone's sexual orientation. It certainly conjures up uncomfortable images of awful "gay conversion treatments" based on punishment and shame.

    I think it would be theoretically possible to help someone who found themselves feeling sexually attracted to children, but it'll be a long time before society in general would be open to such a thing. It would also require a person to be enormously motivated and reflective, and I'm not sure how often that goes hand-in-hand with somebody who can engage in sexual acts with children.

    I have been told, I don't know how truly, that some clinics in Nederlands and maybe other countries, treat it as a mental illness by drugs.


  • #49
    The Black Oil
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,196 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057363077

    Moderator: Television, Psychology and Dublin County North.

    CMod: Entertainment



  • #50
    cruizer101
    Registered Users Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭cruizer101


    I would think in general people who are paedophiles actually have little choice in who they are attracted to it is just the way their brain is wired, this in no way condones abusive actions of them though.
    Any ones we hear of are because they have acted on their impulses either through abuse or viewing porn. There may well be plenty of paedophiles who do not act on their impulses and repress the feelings, but also due to the stigma around it can't seek help in doing this. And it's quite possible if their was more acceptance that it is a condition over which the person has no control ( by this I just mean the attraction not any actual actions ) that more help would be available and this may well actually reduce related crimes.
    I know I have heard of convicted ones opting to get chemically castrated, but I doubt others would volunteer for this as they would have to admit to it first.
    I do also recall hearing of a child abuse charity which as I recall said they did offer support for some paedophiles, I think it was from the point of view of victims of child abuse who were seeking help to prevent them from doing the same.


  • #51
    Wheety
    Registered Users Posts: 5,510 ✭✭✭Wheety


    I remember Louis CK doing a bit on paedophiles before. I know he was up to his own sh1t but that's a different story.

    He said if you think about how paedophiles (ones who have acted on their urge) are seen and treated. They are called scumbags, beaten up, spat on and ostracised. They lose their job, their family, their friends. They are seen as the lowest of the low. Abhorrent crime which will ruin your life if caught and will ruin the life of the victim. Sent to prison where you have to be kept away from other prisoners because they want to kill you.

    Despite all of that, there are still paedophiles out there who are willing to take on all of that. Imagine how strong their urges are to not be able to stop themselves. Despite knowing how they will be treated they still take that chance.

    It is an illness. There should be treatment offered. I'm sure there are people out there fighting their urges all the time. Who don't want to act on this. It would be great if they could talk to someone and receive help. I don't believe homosexuality is a choice and neither is paedophilia. But help needs to be offered to stop people giving into it.


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  • #52
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,359 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    According to DSM 5, paedophilia itself is not a disorder it is a paraphilia which means that clinical intervention may be beneficial but not always necessary. Paedophilia becomes Paedophilic Disorder (where clinical intervention in necessary) when these three conditions are met:

    A. Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviours involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (generally age 13 years or younger).
    B. The individual has acted on these sexual urges, or the sexual urges or fantasies cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty.
    C. The individual is at least age 16 years and at least 5 years older than the child or children in Criterion A.


  • #53
    boombang
    Registered Users Posts: 2,108 ✭✭✭boombang


    I can't find the link to the radio programme, but here are two BBC sources on the topic

    http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-34858350

    http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33464970


  • #54
    The Black Oil
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,196 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    boombang wrote: »
    I can't find the link to the radio programme, but here are two BBC sources on the topic

    http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-34858350

    http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-33464970

    It's in the thread I linked above.

    Direct link here. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03ynx1f

    Moderator: Television, Psychology and Dublin County North.

    CMod: Entertainment



  • #55
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


  • #56
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,103 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Can the utter disregard for whether the other person (child) is consenting or able to consent be put down to an illness? Or is it more likely an inflated sense of self where it doesn't matter what the other person (child) wants, it's all about the paedophile and their wants?


  • #57
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


  • #58
    dar100
    Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭dar100


    spurious wrote: »
    Can the utter disregard for whether the other person (child) is consenting or able to consent be put down to an illness? Or is it more likely an inflated sense of self where it doesn't matter what the other person (child) wants, it's all about the paedophile and their wants?

    A child cant consent to sexual activity with an adult, or anyone else for that matter


  • #59
    The Black Oil
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,196 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    Mod - threads merged.

    Moderator: Television, Psychology and Dublin County North.

    CMod: Entertainment



  • #60
    The Black Oil
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,196 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    JuliusCaesar wrote: »
    I wonder are there any such programmes here....

    One in Four offer what they call the Phoenix Programme.
    The Phoenix Programme is seen at One in Four as a core child protection strategy. We work with individuals who exhibit sexually harmful behaviour towards children. While the state provides treatment programmes for convicted sex offenders both in prison and on release, there is a lack of services for non-convicted sex-offenders in the community. The Phoenix Programme aims to fill this gap. We offer structured interventions mostly in group settings. International research shows that good community-based treatment works and reduces the risk of reoffending.

    The programmes are specific courses of evidence-based therapeutic interventions aimed at individuals who exhibit sexually harmful behaviour towards children and aim to support the individuals who are impacted by the perpetrator's behaviour.
    The types of programmes we offer:

    A systemic therapeutic approach for individuals who have perpetrated sexual violence against children
    A systemic therapeutic intervention for the families directly or indirectly impacted by sexual violence perpetrated by a family member
    Significant Individual Programme
    Mediation
    Family meetings

    Link

    I heard about this because it was picked up by the press. The recently convicted former RTE sports producer had applied to it. RTE article.

    Moderator: Television, Psychology and Dublin County North.

    CMod: Entertainment



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  • #61
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


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