Handwriting decipher thread must post link to full page

spurious · 28-02-2019 9:35pm

There is a Mary Anne Melia death in 1880.
Aged 9 months. Different address, but mother Mary.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1880/06460/4857318.pdf
Entry 404.

pinkypinky · 01-03-2019 10:18am

Thanks for the suggestions but haven't found a corresponding birth.

pinkypinky · 01-03-2019 10:20am

Thanks Spurious, we must have cross-posted there.

I'll try marriages with that combo.
ETA: nothing with these. I've looked at all Mary Cullen marriages for the decade before to Johns and can't make anything into a version of what we're seeing.

Where are these people?

The godparents to this baptism are my ggg-grandfather's sister and her husband, and Cullen is the linking name, so finding a marriage for Mary Cullen and her husband would hopefully yield another sibling for that generation.

New Home · 01-03-2019 12:02pm

She could've been born abroad.

pinkypinky · 01-03-2019 12:21pm

It's not impossible but the baptism took place on 13th Feb and states birth 2 days before so it seems more likely that they didn't register her birth or I haven't found the right surname yet.

Vetch · 01-03-2019 1:02pm

Is this the right marriage for the sponsors on the baptism? One of the witnesses is Mary Melia https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1879/11067/8049081.pdf

pinkypinky · 01-03-2019 1:41pm

Oh brilliant spot!

I have that marriage (it is right) but never thought to look at it!!

That whole book for St Lawrence O'Toole's is very badly imaged.
https://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/display-pdf.jsp?pdfName=st_lawrence_mf_1853-1880_ma_0495

Charles Day was from the Gold Coast in Africa - very interesting man, worked on boats, ended up here, married Rosanna. They went on to live in Glasgow.

Have now found a bunch of matching Melia kids (including ones called Rosanna and Charles). Hopefully this will lead to a marriage that will confirm Mary being Rosanna's sister.

Thanks all!

srmf5 · 04-03-2019 6:31pm

I'm just wondering if any of you would be able to help confirm what I'm reading here: http://census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/vob/IRE_CENSUS_1821-51_007246902_00103.pdf

It's the 4th entry and I'm looking at the far right under observations. I'm reading it as 'purchased the interest(?) in the lease from former tenant for £80 used as an inn and general shop for retail and grocery of spirits.' There's another part faded underneath which could be related to entry 5 rather than 4. It looks like 'The Kelly(?) session(?) is but(?) the use of a room once a fortnight...' and I can't make out the rest. There's also a bit in the middle crossing over entries 4 and 5. at an angle that's a bit faded with a ? beside it 'Part of no. 5 occupied by the...' Thanks for any help.

Deja Boo · 04-03-2019 6:42pm

"purchased the interest in the lease from former tenant for £80 used as an inn and general shop for retail and grocery of spirits - the petty sessions is but the use of a room once a fortnight and occupied during the interim"

maybe?

srmf5 · 04-03-2019 6:47pm

Deja Boo wrote: »

"purchased the interest in the lease from former tenant for £80 used as an inn and general shop for retail and grocery of spirits - the petty sessions is but the use of a room once a fortnight and occupied during the interim"

maybe?

Ah thank you. Petty sessions makes sense. I was trying to figure out if it was two l's or two t's and what I thought was a 'K' looked to be missing what I'm going to refer to it as its upper right arm.

Deja Boo · 04-03-2019 6:47pm

the cross over part to me looks like "Part of No 5 occupied by the fraud(?) jury as a petty petit sessions" ???

Vetch · 04-03-2019 8:26pm

Deja Boo wrote: »

the cross over part to me looks like "Part of No 5 occupied by the fraud(?) jury as a petty sessions" ???

Grand Jury

Deja Boo · 04-03-2019 8:32pm

Vetch wrote: »

Grand Jury

Great eye Vetch! That makes better sense for sure!.......and it appears more as Petit sessions there, maybe?

srmf5 · 04-03-2019 8:36pm

Deja Boo wrote: »

the cross over part to me looks like "Part of No 5 occupied by the fraud(?) jury as a petty sessions" ???

Thank you! Would any of you happen to know what is meant by house projection and house return? Also the last description for entry 4. is a (?) office?

Is it not a bit strange that he would have spent £80 on buildings, etc. worth £14 or am misinterpreting that whole interest part?

Vetch · 04-03-2019 8:37pm

Deja Boo wrote: »

Great eye Vetch! That makes better sense for sure!.......and it appears more as Petit sessions there, maybe?

I can see where you got 'fraud' - the way it's written it's the same 'shape' as 'grand'. I think it might be 'Petit Sessions Ho.' but it's very faint.

Vetch · 04-03-2019 10:02pm

srmf5 wrote: »

Thank you! Would any of you happen to know what is meant by house projection and house return? Also the last description for entry 4. is a (?) office?

Is it not a bit strange that he would have spent £80 on buildings, etc. worth £14 or am misinterpreting that whole interest part?

It's 'distant office' in no. 4.

According to an online dictionary, the return of a building is:
a.
a part of a building that forms an angle with the façade
b.
any part of an architectural feature that forms an angle with the main part

You see it sometimes in descriptions of houses that are for sale. I had to look it up so hopefully someone else will be along to explain better!

It was the interest in a lease rather than the buildings themselves that £80 was paid for. I think you'd have to take the terms of the lease that was bought out into account. The lessee may have had a very long-running or perpetual lease.

srmf5 · 04-03-2019 10:28pm

Vetch wrote: »

It's 'distant office' in no. 4.

According to an online dictionary, the return of a building is:
a.
a part of a building that forms an angle with the façade
b.
any part of an architectural feature that forms an angle with the main part

You see it sometimes in descriptions of houses that are for sale. I had to look it up so hopefully someone else will be along to explain better!

It was the interest in a lease rather than the buildings themselves that £80 was paid for. I think you'd have to take the terms of the lease that was bought out into account. The lessee may have had a very long-running or perpetual lease.

Thank you for that information. It's a wonder that he wouldn't have just built a house from scratch though if it was going to cost that amount to buy but maybe it was in a good location or people in the area weren't willing to sell any of their land for a house to be built on or he wanted a house quick without the hassle of waiting until it was built and furnished. You're probably right that whatever terms were on the lease likely played a part in the price though.

I'm just curious about this man William because my grandfather's cousin had it that an ancestor of the same surname born around 1830 was originally from that village and married into his wife's farm. William is the only man with that surname at the time of Griffith's. However, it was only a small farm that my ancestor married into so I doubt that there's a connection. Although, his son bought a hotel and a pub so maybe there was some link to that sort of occupation going back. It seemed a bit random that a small farmer suddenly bought a hotel and pub! William doesn't seem to have been living in that village long either if he only recently got a lease there which further makes a connection seem less likely.

Vetch · 05-03-2019 9:53am

srmf5 wrote: »

Thank you for that information. It's a wonder that he wouldn't have just built a house from scratch though if it was going to cost that amount to buy but maybe it was in a good location or people in the area weren't willing to sell any of their land for a house to be built on or he wanted a house quick without the hassle of waiting until it was built and furnished. You're probably right that whatever terms were on the lease likely played a part in the price though.

I'm just curious about this man William because my grandfather's cousin had it that an ancestor of the same surname born around 1830 was originally from that village and married into his wife's farm. William is the only man with that surname at the time of Griffith's. However, it was only a small farm that my ancestor married into so I doubt that there's a connection. Although, his son bought a hotel and a pub so maybe there was some link to that sort of occupation going back. It seemed a bit random that a small farmer suddenly bought a hotel and pub! William doesn't seem to have been living in that village long either if he only recently got a lease there which further makes a connection seem less likely.

He was buying a business which could generate income rather than just a house though. Documentation around the property, if it can be found, might provide further info about William Kelly.

cocokabana · 05-03-2019 1:22pm

hi, could someone kindly translate the latin Christian name here please:

thanks

spurious · 05-03-2019 1:25pm

I think it's a version of the Latin for Denis.

cocokabana · 05-03-2019 1:33pm

spurious wrote: »

I think it's a version of the Latin for Denis.

thanks, found a marriage and death record for Denis Power for the area.

cocokabana · 05-03-2019 1:57pm

Have another word I can't make out. Any takers?

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pinkypinky · 05-03-2019 3:28pm

Can you please post the full page link - as is requested in the title of this thread - and repeatedly said by me within it?

srmf5 · 05-03-2019 4:25pm

Vetch wrote: »

He was buying a business which could generate income rather than just a house though. Documentation around the property, if it can be found, might provide further info about William Kelly.

Thanks for the suggestion. I found the name of his wife. Back in 1835 and 1841, they had children born in Rathcroghan. She was from Bellanagare so they must have lived Rathcroghan for a while before moving to Bellanagare. I actually already had notes on this family but hadn't connected the two together as the same person since I hadn't tried to research them before. I only got the information about an origin in Bellanagare recently from a relative. They lived at the Clonalis Arms Hotel and William farmed extensively. The hotel that my ancestor bought was actually called the Sandford Arms Hotel but it already had that name when he bought it.

The only way that William could have been my ancestor's father is if by saying he was originally from Bellanagare just meant that he lived there before he married. I had thought that there could have been a connection to this family before based on a letter and other information and my dad and his aunt are DNA matches to a descendant of William's brother and another match who I think is descended from another brother. I have my doubts on a connection through that line though since there just hasn't been anything concrete yet.

Anyway back to the handwriting deciphering! Sometimes I just find it good to write out the information that I have just so that it's clear in my head.

KildareFan · 06-03-2019 12:32am

cocokabana wrote: »

Have another word I can't make out. Any takers?

Looks like Horsepasture - if you give the link to the full page we'd know the county and make a more educated guess.

pinkypinky · 10-03-2019 2:00am

First marriage on this page: what's the groom's mother's birth surname please?

Also, what's the note in the comment column?

ETA: just thought to look at Rootsireland to see what they have for it but will wait to see what others here think.

Wyldwood · 10-03-2019 11:11am

Not sure what the name is, looks like Hinsly/Hurley but the note means the groom was a widower, I think

Vetch · 10-03-2019 12:14pm

Kinsley and sponsus viduus est.

pinkypinky · 10-03-2019 12:22pm

Oh! I agree on the name.
The Latin translation is very interesting, as these people are my own ancestors.
Thank you.

VicWynne · 23-03-2019 4:56pm

Hi folks,

Can anyone make out the name of the husband that registered the death of Anne Meehan, number 71 on the page below.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1882/06390/4834748.pdf

Many thanks in advance
Vic

Handwriting decipher thread *must post link to full page*

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Handwriting decipher thread must post link to full page