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Smear Test Scandal

  • 02-05-2018 1:08am
    #1
    Sam Quentin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,223 ✭✭✭


    So are we about to have another enquiry?
    It's already taking up valuable time in the Dail,.. with the 'opposition' parties shouting and blaming everyone but themselves!? When at the end of the day nobody as such is to blame, nothing is fool proof.. Cant we just be glad that the smear tests globally have saved millions of lives.....


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Comments

  • #2
    _Dara_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭_Dara_


    I’m terminally ill because of a very delayed breast cancer diagnosis and a lot of ineptitude on the part of doctors. It’s completely devastating. I’d actually love a small bit of compensation as it would make my now very straitened circumstances a bit easier. Would you really begrudge these people getting compensated?


  • #3
    Try_harder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    Sam Quentin wrote: »
    So are we about to have another enquiry and at the end of it all are lots of women going to seek cash from the Irish taxpayer as compensation...
    It's already taking up valuable time in the Dail,.. with the 'opposition' parties shouting and blaming everyone but themselves!? When at the end of the day nobody as such is to blame, nothing is fool proof.. Cant we just be glad that the smear tests globally have saved millions of lives.....

    What should be discussing in the dail, how climate change isnt real and that some TDs roads arent up to scratch in questions to the minister?

    This is a national disgrace - it must be investigated - 17 Women are dead


  • #4
    Try_harder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    Sam Quentin wrote: »
    So are we about to have another enquiry and at the end of it all are lots of women going to seek cash from the Irish taxpayer as compensation...
    It's already taking up valuable time in the Dail,.. with the 'opposition' parties shouting and blaming everyone but themselves!? When at the end of the day nobody as such is to blame, nothing is fool proof.. Cant we just be glad that the smear tests globally have saved millions of lives.....

    If Doctors advising them that the tests they were using had a higher failure rate and were to be done more frequently for accuracy then yes- people should be held accountable


  • #5
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    I’m currently going through treatment for high grade genotyping changes that were thankfully discovered during an abnormal smear test.

    The whole thing has been terrifying and extremely invasive. I can’t imagine how much extra stress I would feel if I thought there was a chance they’d botched my results.
    We are literally trusting these professionals with our lives. I can’t speak highly enough of the care I have received but clearly other women weren’t so lucky.

    I don’t blame them for seeking compensation. Cervical cancer is the second biggest killer of women aged 25 to 39 in this country.
    With statistics like that, mistakes of that proportion are unacceptable.


  • #6
    Sam Quentin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,223 ✭✭✭Sam Quentin


    _Dara_ wrote: »
    I’m terminally ill because of a very delayed cancer diagnosis and a lot of ineptitude on the part of doctors. It’s completely devastating.

    I'm very sorry for you Dara.. I really am.
    But this newest 'scandal' as it's referred to, should not be taking over our Dail and it should not be costing any of us a penny. It should be looked at by HSE and 'fixed' or re-contracted.


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  • #7
    Try_harder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,681 ✭✭✭Try_harder


    Sam Quentin wrote: »
    I'm very sorry for you Dara.. I really am.
    But this newest 'scandal' as it's referred to, should not be taking over our Dail and it should not be costing any of us a penny. It should be looked at by HSE and 'fixed' or re-contracted.

    Who should pay for it? We the state are responsible


  • #8
    Rubberchikken
    Registered Users Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    Every stupid thing is discussed in the dail. Why shouldnt a scandal of enormous inepitude not be discussed?
    Women who put thrir trust in a system supposedly there to help protect them has instead through incompetence and immorality, failed them.
    I dont think the irish answer of yet anothet expensive enquiry is the solution.
    Heads should roll and publicly.
    People should be made to answer and explain how this has been allowed. But no. Leo will hold an expensive money and time wasting enquiry and we'll be none the wiser at the end because yet another cockup will have reared its ugly head.


  • #9
    _Dara_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭_Dara_


    Sam Quentin wrote: »
    I'm very sorry for you Dara.. I really am.
    But this newest 'scandal' as it's referred to, should not be taking over our Dail and it should not be costing any of us a penny. It should be looked at by HSE and 'fixed' or re-contracted.

    Well, I’m not working anymore but if I was, gotta say I'd have no problem with a tiny fraction of my taxes going toward compensation for cases like this. Taxes fund the HSE, they’ll compensate the victims. There’s not really any getting away from it. We can’t choose what our taxes are used for.


  • #10
    kaymin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,478 ✭✭✭kaymin


    Sam Quentin wrote: »
    I'm very sorry for you Dara.. I really am.
    But this newest 'scandal' as it's referred to, should not be taking over our Dail and it should not be costing any of us a penny. It should be looked at by HSE and 'fixed' or re-contracted.

    How do you fix the HSEs past mistakes without it costing anything? You can't just abandon the victims as if HSE / Tony's incompetence does not require rectitude.

    I'm a long suffering taxpayer like others and what I'd like to see most is some accountability in the public sector.


  • #11
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    SamQuentin wrote: »
    .................

    When at the end of the day nobody as such is to blame,
    .

    Yes they are

    SamQuentin wrote: »
    ......
    Cant we just be glad that the smear tests globally have saved millions of lives.....


    that's not the problem - mismatch in how it's all done here and abroad

    - someone knew after being told about it :
    Dr Gibbons also said he and a group of "very well-qualified scientists" resigned after their concerns were allegedly dismissed.


    the filthy scum should be executed for it





    https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/health/doctor-predicted-cervical-smear-test-issues-10-years-ago-36858027.html


    Dr Gibbons also said he and a group of "very well-qualified scientists" resigned after their concerns were allegedly dismissed.



    "At that time, we had a backlog due to under-resourcing."

    Dr Gibbons said tests were outsourced to laboratories in the US and he expressed concern about the figures they received back.

    "They were predicting fewer pre-cancer cases in a batch of similar population size to us.

    "We were finding 1.8 cases per 100, they were finding 1.2.

    "This was a third of a difference"


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  • #12
    Sam Quentin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,223 ✭✭✭Sam Quentin


    Try_harder wrote: »
    If Doctors advising them that the tests they were using had a higher failure rate and were to be done more frequently for accuracy then yes- people should be held accountable

    Of course some system or check needs to be looked at and investigated thoroughly.. But isn't that an internal matter with the HSE and the company the work was 'outsourced' to..
    Like why is it being used as 'ammunition' and brownie point gathering by opposition parties, and aired across Irish tv for the foreseeable future...
    Also it should be a private matter for the ladies it effects..


  • #13
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    Sam Quentin wrote: »
    .............

    Also it should be a private matter for the ladies it effects..

    Why ?


  • #14
    Sam Quentin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,223 ✭✭✭Sam Quentin


    gctest50 wrote: »
    Why ?

    Why what??
    Are you suggesting it's like the Lottery,If you go public you get an extra bonus!?

    You tell me why anyone outside of the woman's family should know about this sensitive private medical matter...


  • #15
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,223 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Sam Quentin wrote: »
    So are we about to have another enquiry and at the end of it all are lots of women going to seek cash from the Irish taxpayer as compensation...
    It's already taking up valuable time in the Dail,.. with the 'opposition' parties shouting and blaming everyone but themselves!? When at the end of the day nobody as such is to blame, nothing is fool proof.. Cant we just be glad that the smear tests globally have saved millions of lives.....

    Please tell me you first typed a perfectly reasonable post, and then accidentally put it through a 'what would an arsehole post' filter...?

    :confused:


  • #16
    Sam Quentin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,223 ✭✭✭Sam Quentin


    endacl wrote: »
    Please tell me you first typed a perfectly reasonable post, and then accidentally put it through a 'what would an arsehole post' filter...?

    :confused:

    Great input..
    Now go back to your Vodka or whatever tipples your fancy...


  • #17
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,223 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    Sam Quentin wrote: »
    Great input..
    Now go back to your Vodka or whatever tipples your fancy...
    Just for clarity....

    Should that have been 'whatever tipples your fancy, or 'whatever tippckles your fancy'?


  • #18
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    .
    Sam Quentin wrote: »
    .................
    When at the end of the day nobody as such is to blame,...



    tell us again how no one is to blame :




    The 16 April memo to the Minister for Healh :

    In 2014, the outcomes of the audits of women's smears were used for "educational and training purposes only" by CervicalCheck

    In 2015, the HSE decided that the audits of women’s smear tests should be passed on to the women’s treating doctors

    Treating doctors got these audits in 2016 to be passed on to the women "as appropriate"

    The memo says the CervicalCheck test may only pick up six out of ten abnormalities and so has a high level of false negative results.


  • #19
    Sam Quentin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,223 ✭✭✭Sam Quentin


    endacl wrote: »
    Just for clarity....

    Should that have been 'whatever tipples your fancy, or 'whatever tippckles your fancy'?

    Work it out for yourself...


  • #20
    Dog walker 1234
    Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭Dog walker 1234


    OP, you seem to be totally missing the point. This is a major incompetence issue. People have died and more will die because of it. People who did nothing wrong, still haven't been given the full facts of their illness. I wonder if you were affected would you have the same attitude?


  • #21
    Trasna1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 565 ✭✭✭Trasna1


    What a bizarre and indeed awful thread. Of course the women who got wrong diagnoses should be compensated - there is simply no question about that. This is especially so if the mistake has led to the cancer progressing to a more difficult to treat or terminal illness.

    I would be pretty sure that any of the women/families involved would trade all the money in the world rather than be in a position for compensation.

    As for the people involved, mistakes do happen, which are unfortunate frequent in medicine and they can be understood - but cover ups or ignoring questions are not mistakes, people should pay a heavy price for that.


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  • #22
    Sam Quentin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,223 ✭✭✭Sam Quentin


    gctest50 wrote: »
    .





    tell us again how no one is to blame :

    Well if there's a 'comedy' of errors!?
    Then nobody is to blame...


  • #23
    Sam Quentin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,223 ✭✭✭Sam Quentin


    Dog walker 1234 wrote: »
    OP, you seem to be totally missing the point. This is a major incompetence issue. People have died and more will die because of it. People who did nothing wrong, still haven't been given the full facts of their illness. I wonder if you were affected would you have the same attitude?

    If it effected me or any of my family..
    Then I wouldn't have the same attitude.
    What's your point?


  • #24
    _Dara_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭_Dara_


    Sam Quentin wrote: »
    If it effected me or any of my family..
    Then I wouldn't have the same attitude.
    What's your point?

    So what you’re saying is you can’t empathise?


  • #25
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    There should be no controversy about this - everyone who publicly or privately acted or advocated that people who were misdiagnosed not be informed at literally the earliest possible opportunity should be removed from their job and prosecuted for criminal negligence, simple as that.

    This wasn't just a mistake, it was a mistake which various people seemed to have decided it was better to cover up than to remedy the mistake as quickly as possible. Those people literally have blood and death on their hands and as far as I'm concerned, should be looking at spending the rest of their lives in a prison cell.


  • #26
    Calhoun
    Registered Users Posts: 7,447 ✭✭✭Calhoun


    Sam Quentin wrote: »
    So are we about to have another enquiry and at the end of it all are lots of women going to seek cash from the Irish taxpayer as compensation...
    It's already taking up valuable time in the Dail,.. with the 'opposition' parties shouting and blaming everyone but themselves!? When at the end of the day nobody as such is to blame, nothing is fool proof.. Cant we just be glad that the smear tests globally have saved millions of lives.....

    Seriously what is wrong with you? What happened in your life that you have such a lack of empathy and understanding for something so outrageous?

    Couple of things i have picked up on the topic and im not following every bit of it.

    1. Smear tests do save lives globally but the model we moved from was set on a 3 year cycle and we outsourced to a company that does tests with expectation of a yearly checkup. The difference is 2-3 minutes reviewing the tests compared to a required 20-30 minutes to do it properly, the reason the american system is quick is the expectation is a follow up in a year and it will be picked up then.
    2. Some doctors argued with the testing service about who had to tell the woman it happened (this alone is horrible).
    3. This was something that was picked up ahead of time and flagged before the service was moved.
    4. 17 women to-date have died.

    If you want to be angry about anything be angry that for a first world country we pull some pretty dodgy **** with our citizens. At the end of the day more then likely bar a few token heads nothing will change and we will have another scandal down the line.


  • #27
    Hammer89
    Registered Users Posts: 3,003 ✭✭✭Hammer89


    Sam Quentin wrote: »
    Cant we just be glad that the smear tests globally have saved millions of lives.....

    Yes but they could and should have saved millions of lives plus another 17, which is sort of the issue. One inaccurate diagnosis is inexcusable; 17 is an abomination.


  • #28
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    3000 + women caught up in this


  • #29
    Sam Quentin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,223 ✭✭✭Sam Quentin


    _Dara_ wrote: »
    So what you’re saying is you can’t empathise?

    That's not what I'm saying at-all.
    I have great sympathy and I empathise with anyone who is sick or suffering..
    I have no time for td's who bandwagon of such suffering.
    Like of course there will be an enquiry no matter who shouts it the loudest!?


  • #30
    Dog walker 1234
    Registered Users Posts: 1,283 ✭✭✭Dog walker 1234


    Sam Quentin wrote: »
    If it effected me or any of my family..
    Then I wouldn't have the same attitude.
    What's your point?

    Please stop embarrassing yourself.


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  • #31
    mazwell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 150 ✭✭mazwell


    I had my first smear test at 25 in England, abnormal cells, follow up and then treatment. I'm immensely thankful for the care I got. I moved home then and got my 3 year test here, all clear, happy out and am due my next in 2019.
    After hearing the scandal, and it is a scandal, I'm going to pay privately for an earlier test. Because I and thousands of women just like me are terrified that we have a possibility of being the people who were given false negatives. Therefore potentially shortening our lifespan, making us go through chemo, reducing our quality of life.
    If you honestly think that the scandal is that the government might have to pay compensation then I really do think you'd want to have a talk to a professional who teaches cop yourself on lessons


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