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Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information


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Irish Firearms & Hunting training Academy

  • 09-05-2015 8:49pm
    #1
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    MOD NOTE

    Split off from main Garda Prospoal Thread.



    Got sent on this by an interested party. All information is freely available on Solocheck.ie and is in the public domain. I found it odd that such a company would be created as there is no legislation (yet) for such a centre if indeed it's intended purpose is for implementing any sort of graduated licensing "training".

    However the name would imply a preemptive attempt to set up an "Academy" for training people in the use of firearms and hunting. IOW a ready to go, graduated licensing, "test centre".

    Only registered on Wednesday. 3 days ago.

    Type | Private limited by shares
    Number | 561358
    Name | IRISH FIREARMS & HUNTER TRAINING ACADEMY LIMITED
    Address | LOUGHABOR, ATHY, CO. KILDARE
    Registered | 06/05/2015
    Status | Normal
    Effective Date | 06/05/2015
    Last AR Date | Not Available
    Next AR Date | 06/11/2015
    Last Accounts to Date | Not Available



    MOD HAT ON

    While we can debate the reasons for such a company, it being preemptive, it's goals, agenda, etc, etc. I must stress that at no point can anyone make accusations against any named individual. IOW no making accusations that such and such a person is responsible. For now it's a registered company under the directorship of, what appears to be, a company registration business. Unless/until someone else takes directorship of the company any talk of who is responsible is speculation.
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«134

Comments

  • #2
    OzCam
    Registered Users Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭OzCam


    Cass wrote: »

    Only registered on Wednesday. 3 days ago.

    Type | Private limited by shares
    Number | 561358
    Name | IRISH FIREARMS & HUNTER TRAINING ACADEMY LIMITED
    Address | LOUGHABOR, ATHY, CO. KILDARE
    Registered | 06/05/2015
    Status | Normal
    Effective Date | 06/05/2015
    Last AR Date | Not Available
    Next AR Date | 06/11/2015
    Last Accounts to Date | Not Available


    That's rather strange. According to the Revenue, all Private Companes Limited by Shares will have to change to either a Private Limited Company or a Designated Activity Company after the 1st June.

    Why would you register a company if you're going to have to change a load of paperwork about it in a few weeks time?

    Unless, of course, you wanted to get the name registered... and/or that no-one else can set something up called a Hunting and/or Shooting Academy...


  • #3
    Gormley85
    Registered Users Posts: 147 ✭✭Gormley85


    OzCam wrote: »
    That's rather strange. According to the Revenue, all Private Companes Limited by Shares will have to change to either a Private Limited Company or a Designated Activity Company after the 1st June.

    Why would you register a company if you're going to have to change a load of paperwork about it in a few weeks time?

    Unless, of course, you wanted to get the name registered... and/or that no-one else can set something up called a Hunting and/or Shooting Academy...

    No there's an option there to reserve a business name if you want.

    My guess would be that the person doing the paperwork probably just didnt know about the upcoming changes.


  • #4
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    OzCam wrote: »
    Unless, of course, you wanted to get the name registered... and/or that no-one else can set something up called a Hunting and/or Shooting Academy...

    I assume this is the reason. To me it seems like a preemptive move. Someone or some group are hoping for, pushing for, or expecting that graduated licenses and hence training will be made mandatory and are getting in early by having a business registered for that exact purpose.

    Frankly i find it distasteful and arrogant.
    • Distasteful that some are seeking to cash in on something before it even happens (assuming it happens). No thought to the appropriateness of such a system, just how best to make money on it and be the first to do it.
    • Arrogant that whomever it is thinks they are qualified to run a course on not only firearm "training" but hunting. Hunting is something you learn over years and years. Not on a course over a day or two. Same with firearm use. It's learned over a lifetime, not a day in a class.
    Gormley85 wrote:
    My guess would be that the person doing the paperwork probably just didnt know about the upcoming changes.
    Same as that. The company that registered the name seems to be a "middle man". As said above we won't know who is behind this until they take directorship/ownership of the business. When that happens i'll have some questions for them.
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  • #5
    Nekarsulm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,191 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    More than likely speculators, hoping to sell the company & name if testing comes in. The two directors are directors of 29 and 38 other companies, respectively. Plus ex directors of another 20 or 30.
    A bit like people setting up websites in celebrities names, in the hope of cashing in.


  • #6
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    I doubt it.

    The money to be gained from such a process might be good on other types of industry, but not for shooting. Not a big enough market. Plus idoubt the ladies that registered the company have been following the current debates and proposals with such interest as to think this is a monetary windfall. I think it's more a case of someone not wanting their name attached to this incase the graduated licensing system never sees daylight. Also until graduated licensing is killed off or made mandatory they don't want to be seen to be setting up a company for something that doesn't exist. Think about, if they are speaking out against the proposals and have this it'd look bad (being polite). If they are for the proposals questions will be asked as to their real motivation for supporting the proposals, money or the good of the sport.

    You'll excuse the cynic in me but i've seen this carry on before.
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  • #7
    Nekarsulm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,191 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    Cass wrote: »
    I doubt it.

    The money to be gained from such a process might be good on other types of industry, but not for shooting. Not a big enough market. Plus idoubt the ladies that registered the company have been following the current debates and proposals with such interest as to think this is a monetary windfall. I think it's more a case of someone not wanting their name attached to this incase the graduated licensing system never sees daylight. Also until graduated licensing is killed off or made mandatory they don't want to be seen to be setting up a company for something that doesn't exist. Think about, if they are speaking out against the proposals and have this it'd look bad (being polite). If they are for the proposals questions will be asked as to their real motivation for supporting the proposals, money or the good of the sport.

    You'll excuse the cynic in me but i've seen this carry on before.

    You're probably right, Cass. If you were based in Cavan, just setting up shell companies, you wouldn't need, nor possibly have, a site address in Kildare. <mod snip>


  • #8
    homerhop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,953 ✭✭✭homerhop


    good old Irish attitude, pull something down before the facts are even known based on wild speculations. I was talking to one of the individuals involved in this a few weeks ago and it was quiet interesting.Sadly what is being posted here about it is pure tripe.


  • #9
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    It's nothing to do with "irish attitude". I also love how when we question the creation of such a place that ties in so closely to the proposals that such training and graduated licenses are needed is rubbished away as "typically irish". So you know about this? Then enlighten us.
    • Who is doing it?
    • What is the function of it?
    • Who else is involved?
    • What does this "Firearm & hunting" training involve?

    If it's a genuine thing then you have to excuse the skepticism that exists due to the previous actions of others in secret.
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  • #10
    OzCam
    Registered Users Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭OzCam


    Gormley85 wrote: »
    My guess would be that the person doing the paperwork probably just didnt know about the upcoming changes.

    I think that's unlikely. Tax Advisers and accountants have known about these changes for a long time. Anyone who's a director of 20 or 30 other companies will have got multiple leaflets from Revenue since 1st May about it, at every address on file for them.

    Someone somewhere obviously thinks there's a buck to be made if they get in quick. Otherwise why not wait a few weeks and set the company up under the new system?

    The maximum allowed transition period is quite long (up to 18 months), but why do this company paperwork twice if you can just register a name now?


  • #11
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    Looking at the CRO documents, that's just a shelf company set up by one of the register-a-company crowds. The ladies signing the forms won't run the shelf company, whomever is setting it up will file a B10 with the CRO and that will transfer the company to their name formally.


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  • #12
    clivej
    Registered Users Posts: 7,025 ✭✭✭clivej


    I don't see how your qualified to comment on who or what qualifications these people have. Until more us known about this new venture.
    It could also be to the benefit of new & experienced shooters alike.

    Cass wrote: »
    I assume this is the reason. To me it seems like a preemptive move. Someone or some group are hoping for, pushing for, or expecting that graduated licenses and hence training will be made mandatory and are getting in early by having a business registered for that exact purpose.

    Frankly i find it distasteful and arrogant.
    • Distasteful that some are seeking to cash in on something before it even happens (assuming it happens). No thought to the appropriateness of such a system, just how best to make money on it and be the first to do it.
    • Arrogant that whomever it is thinks they are qualified to run a course on not only firearm "training" but hunting. Hunting is something you learn over years and years. Not on a course over a day or two. Same with firearm use. It's learned over a lifetime, not a day in a class.

    Same as that. The company that registered the name seems to be a "middle man". As said above we won't know who is behind this until they take directorship/ownership of the business. When that happens i'll have some questions for them.


  • #13
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    <SNIP>

    Concur with Sparks its a bought shelf company with the two Cavan ladies acting as directors.
    Until it starts to trade formally we have no idea who is behind it or why .

    As of now its just a file in an office and a registered on paper limited company set up in the last five weeks with coincidentally an address in a bog next to a premier shooting range in Ireland. Those are the only facts we have so far here. Everything from here on in is speculation and unless proof positive evidence is supplied that's all it is.

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • #14
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    clivej wrote: »
    I don't see how your qualified to comment on who or what qualifications these people have. Until more us known about this new venture.
    What comments on whom? I never discussed qualifications or mentioned names because i don't know who actually owns the company and as such don't know what qualifications these people do or don't have. I even made sure that no one mention names until we know exactly who it is as per my Mod note above.
    MOD HAT ON

    While we can debate the reasons for such a company, it being preemptive, it's goals, agenda, etc, etc. I must stress that at no point can anyone make accusations against any named individual. IOW no making accusations that such and such a person is responsible. For now it's a registered company under the directorship of, what appears to be, a company registration business. Unless/until someone else takes directorship of the company any talk of who is responsible is speculation.

    @ Grizz - That is exactly what i asked people not to do. NO NAMING NAMES because everything is, as per my MOD NOTE above and earlier, speculation. In the next 10 days we'll have the B10 and we can discuss it openly. Until then i'll repeat and elaborate on my Mod Note.


    There is to be no hinting, implying, inference, suggestion, implication, or pointing at any one person, place or group until all the facts are known. You can discuss the company form a "what if" point of view, but at no point will any accusations be allowed to stand against anyone.
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  • #15
    Sparks
    Registered Users Posts: 40,055 ✭✭✭✭Sparks


    And there's the B10.


  • #16
    Grizzly 45
    Registered Users Posts: 14,949 ✭✭✭✭Grizzly 45


    The attachment doesnt open here Sparks..All I get is a blank page.:confused:

    "If you want to keep someone away from your house, Just fire the shotgun through the door."

    Vice President [and former lawyer] Joe Biden Field& Stream Magazine interview Feb 2013 "



  • #17
    clivej
    Registered Users Posts: 7,025 ✭✭✭clivej


    2 fine men who have the credentials to carry through with training & courses


  • #18
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,758 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    Shooting enthusiasts possibly taking their skills professional is what it looks like to me.

    Nothing wrong with that in my opinion.


  • #19
    patsat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,185 ✭✭✭patsat


    Who are they??


  • #20
    wirehairmax
    Registered Users Posts: 678 ✭✭✭wirehairmax


    BattleCorp wrote: »
    Shooting enthusiasts possibly taking their skills professional is what it looks like to me.

    Nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

    It's a big set up. No wonder the NARGC, SC, NASRPC etc are rolling over to the suggestion of a graduated licensing system, training etc. there'll be more of these "academies" on the horizon shortly but only a select few and only if they have the right "connections". Where there's money to be made......... Like flies on a rotting carcass.
    It'll be like the "trained hunter" fiasco , all sown up by a cosy cartel at the top with influential friends.


  • #21
    homerhop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,953 ✭✭✭homerhop


    You talk some <SNIP>


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  • #22
    wirehairmax
    Registered Users Posts: 678 ✭✭✭wirehairmax


    homerhop wrote: »
    You talk some <SNIP>
    You seem to have the inside track on this, care to share? Also who are these two fine gentlemen and what are their "qualifications"? And why did they feel they had to use third parties to register their new brainwave company?
    They are only trying to cash in on a bad situation unless you can say otherwise?


  • #23
    homerhop
    Registered Users Posts: 1,953 ✭✭✭homerhop


    <mod snip>


  • #24
    wirehairmax
    Registered Users Posts: 678 ✭✭✭wirehairmax


    <mod snip>
    Still nothing of any substance from you either. Enlighten me with your inside knowledge and back up some of your bravado. You've said damn all of anything noteworthy so far. If you know so much and I'm wrong then surely you must be able to prove it?


  • #25
    targetx
    Registered Users Posts: 81 ✭✭targetx


    Having been on several training courses given by both of the individuals concerned, I can say that their wealth of knowledge and experience related to firearms is second to none in this country. If they are joining forces to create an academy for firearms training then this must be seen as a very positive step for shooting sports and I am sure that many will join me in wishing them well. Fair play.


  • #26
    garrettod
    Registered Users Posts: 2,420 ✭✭✭garrettod


    Hi,

    For what it's worth, I don't have any particular problem with this. Sure, it looks like the two lads are taking a punt based on how they see the current discussions with the DOJ going, but there's nothing to stop others (including a couple of the able bodies from here) setting up a business doing the exact same thing.

    Thanks,

    G.



  • #27
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    I've edited some posts to remove "colourful" language.

    Keep your comments civil and if you have a problem with something that has been said report it and the mods will act. Don't try and solve it yourself
    Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

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    Moderators - Cass otmmyboy2 , CatMod - Shamboc , Admins - Beasty , mickeroo



  • #28
    Cass
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 28,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cass


    I'm going to clarify something as i started this thread based on information that was provided to me.

    I have no agenda or hidden reason for starting this thread. It was started based on information i was given about the formation of a new company, which given it's timing, seemed to be a pre-emptive graduated licensing system training course. This is something i do not view as a good thing for one simple reason. If those involved in negotiating with the Doj & AGS were behind this company it calls into question the motivations for pushing for such a system.

    The thread quickly started to go into unsteady ground so it was closed until we had all the information. While we don't have everything we do have another key piece of information. The actual owners/directors. Some will know them, some won't. For those that don't it would be of benefit if someone, and there are people that know about it, would explain who they are, what their qualifications are, and what the course will entail in terms of modules, etc. That is not a dig, but a simple way to eliminate any confusion and alleviate any concerns people have.



    MOD HAT ON

    With all that being said i need to reiterate the Mod Notes above. We now know who it is, but it still does not give anyone permission to make accusations. Also the language needs to be addressed. There is no need for incivility. It'll belittle your point and only end up getting deleted.

    So keep it clean.
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    If you see a problem post use the report post function. Click on the three dots on the post, select "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.

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  • #29
    IRLConor
    Subscribers Posts: 4,075 ✭✭✭IRLConor


    wirehairmax wrote: »
    And why did they feel they had to use third parties to register their new brainwave company?

    It's a perfectly normal way of registering a company.

    I have plenty of concerns about the proposals around graduated licensing and the possibility of being legally required to help private companies turn a profit but the method of registering this company is not an issue.


  • #30
    Roundpack
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭Roundpack


    I know the two guys involved and believe this venture has been in development for some time.

    One of them was or is the only NRA training councellor in europe.(i stand to be corrected on that one).

    One of them will be well known to most as he has conducted a variety of training courses across the country.

    The unfounded accusations being thrown around here are disgraceful. These gentlemen should be congratulated for trying to start a business particularly in the uncertain area of firearms.

    They are no more taking advantage of a situation than your average gun dealer trying to serve an identified market.

    I say good luck to them!


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  • #31
    Vegeta
    Registered Users Posts: 11,394 ✭✭✭✭Vegeta


    Roundpack wrote: »
    The unfounded accusations being thrown around here are disgraceful.

    Hey Roundpack, if you see any accusations then please report them and the mod team will delete them.

    Saying that, people are allowed to express their opinion on this. If they're for it, if they think it's great or if they think it's a bad thing, in poor taste etc.


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