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Dublin Canals Cycle Route

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    #2
    p
    Registered Users Posts: 2,119 ✭✭✭p


    Great to see a public representative posting on here! :)

    I had a small problem though, searching for that number doesn't return any results? Any idea what the problem is!


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    #3
    sickle
    Registered Users Posts: 701 ✭✭✭sickle


    I was goping to make a comment through the DCC website but it costs €20 so thought i'd make it here,
    There is new parking proposed on the south side of Wiltton Terrace (just after leeson street bridge), its not very sensible to put parking right next to the new cycle lane with doors opening into the path of cyclists and passengers in the cycle lane...


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    #4
    72hundred
    Registered Users Posts: 1,333 ✭✭✭72hundred


    DCC_Cycling (Ciaran) wrote: »
    The first stage of a proposed Dublin Canals Cycle Route is currently at public consultation stage. Documents can be viewed and comments made by following the link below and entering planning reference 4148/09.

    http://www.dublincity.ie/Planning/PlanningSearch/Pages/PlanningSearch.aspx

    Ciarán

    When's the due date for submissions? I'm pretty busy at the moment to read through all the documents but will have the time around Christmas to do so, if that's not too late.



    EDIT: Ah right found it;
    DCC wrote:
    A submission or observation in relation to the proposed development, dealing with the proper planning and sustainable development of the area may be made in writing to the Executive Manager, Planning Department, Dublin City Council, Block 4, Floor 3, Civic Offices, Wood Quay, Dublin 8 before 16.30hrs on 18th December 2009.


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    #5
    Bunnyhopper
    Registered Users Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Bunnyhopper


    p wrote: »
    Great to see a public representative posting on here! :)

    I had a small problem though, searching for that number doesn't return any results? Any idea what the problem is!

    Try one of the other search fields - the layout came up a bit oddly for me in Firefox but I got it to work that way.

    And +1 on DCC posting here.


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    #6
    Dirk Gently
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,784 ✭✭✭Dirk Gently


    Here's the planning application for anyone ahaving difficulty with the DC site.
    Full Development Description

    Planning and Development Act 2000 Planning and Development Regulations 2001-2007 (Part 8 Procedure) Display of proposed development for public comment.

    Proposed premium cycle route - Grand Canal Cycle Route and Sutton to Sandycove Docklands Route Pursuant to the requirements of the above, notice is hereby given of the proposed construction by Dublin City Council of the above scheme. The proposed works will comprise of the following:

    1. The construction of 2,040 metres of contra flow cycle way adjacent to the Grand Canal from Portobello to Grand Canal Street Lower.

    2. The construction of 405 metres of cycleway from Grand Canal Street Lower to Pearse Street.

    3. The construction of 409 metres of cycle way from Hanover Quay to the southside of the Samuel Beckett Bridge.

    4. The construction of 1,156 metres of contra flow cycle way adjacent to the Royal Canal from Samuel Beckett Bridge to Ossory Road.

    5. The construction of a single span pedestrian/cycle bridge (span 58 metres) directly adjacent to the existing Iarnrod Eireann Bridge at Ossory Road.

    6. The construction of 580 metres of cycleway from West Road to East Wall Road.

    7. The construction of an 87 metre long cycle boardwalk on western approach to Leeson Street Bridge.

    8. The provision of toucan (pedestrian and cycle) crossings at the following locations: (a) Junction of Richmond Street South and Charlemont Mall (b) Ranelagh Road and Charlemont Bridge (c) Leeson Street Bridge (d) Baggot Street Bridge (e) Huband Bridge (f) Northumberland Road and Warrington Place (McKenny Bridge) (g) Clanwilliam Place (h) Grand Canal Street and Grand Canal Quay (i) Pearse Street and Grand Canal Quay (j) Forbes Street and Sir John Rogerson's Quay (2) (k) Sir John Rogerson's Quay and Samuel Beckett Bridge (l) North Wall Quay east of Guild Street (m) Mayor Street and Spencer Dock (n) Spencer Dock and Sheriff Street (o) Ossory Road and West Road (p) West Road and East Wall Road

    9. Creation of 2 cul de sacs on Grand Canal Quay at Railway Bridge.

    10. Removal of 144 metre strip of existing cobble sets on Grand Canal Quay/Clanwilliam Terrace and relocation further north on Grand Canal Quay.

    11. Removal of 270 pay and display permit parking spaces at the following locations: - South Side of Charlemont Mall (40 spaces) - South Side of Wilton Terrace (100 spaces) - Herbert Place (70 spaces) - Warrington Place (24 spaces) - Clanwilliam Place (10 spaces) - Grand Canal Quay (26 spaces)

    12. Provision of the appropriate directional signage and markings.

    13. Minor carriageway narrowing at various locations along the scheme as shown on the scheme drawings.

    14. Reconstruction of pedestrian footpaths along the scheme where required.

    15. Road resurfacing will take place where required.

    16. The provision of public lighting and security CCTV.

    17. Provision of ducting for public lighting, CCTV, and communication cables together with associated connection and pulling chambers. An Ecological Report accompanies this application. Plans and particulars of the proposed scheme will be available for inspection during normal working hours for a period of six weeks from Friday 23rd October to Friday 4th December at: (a) Dublin City Council, Wood Quay, Dublin 8 at the Planning Counter 9.00 - 16.30hrs Monday to Friday (b) Dublin Docklands Development Authority, 52-55 Sir John Rogerson's Quay, Docklands, Dublin 2, from 09.00hrs - 17.30hrs monday to friday and 0900hrs - 1700hrs Thursday (c) Sean O'Casey Community Centre, St Mary's Road, East Wall, from 0900hrs - 2200hrs Monday to Friday (d) Rathmines Library, 157 Lower Rathmines Road, Dublin 6, from 10.00hrs - 22300hrs Monday to Thursday and 10.00hrs - 15.00hrs Friday to Saturday.

    A submission or observation in relation to the proposed development, dealing with the proper planning and sustainable development of the area may be made in writing to the Executive Manager, Planning Department, Dublin City Council, Block 4, Floor 3, Civic Offices, Wood Quay, Dublin 8 before 16.30hrs on 18th December 2009.


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    #7
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Wish they had a better and more detailed map of it.


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    #8
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,733 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    how does this tie in with this scheme?


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    #9
    Doctor Bob
    Registered Users Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭Doctor Bob


    loyatemu wrote: »
    how does this tie in with this scheme?

    It doesn't.

    There will be a gap between Blackhorse and Portobello. Parts of that missing section are still cycleable, but there's no dedicated cycle infrastructure.


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    #10
    DCC_Cycling (Ciaran)
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭DCC_Cycling (Ciaran)


    This is part of a plan to develop cycle routes along Dublin's canals. We are about to start surveying the stretch from Portobello to Blackhorse to connect to the route coming in from Adamstown.

    The drawings that are posted are not detailed design drawings because this project is at Part VIII planning stage. In the Part VIII process officials from the local authority present a proposal to the elected public representatives. Elected representatives then decide to reject, accept or accept with amendments the proposal. Drawings at this stage are there to allow elected representatives to make an informed decision on the merits of the project. Detailed design comes later.

    Ciarán


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    #11
    Doctor Bob
    Registered Users Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭Doctor Bob


    Cheers Ciarán- good to know the gap is being looked at.
    BostonB wrote: »
    Wish they had a better and more detailed map of it.

    I saw the full project on display in the Civic Offices recently, including colour drawings of the scheme laid out end-to-end. The DCC planning website usually just puts up low-resolution b&w scans of any planning documents. Drop in to the lobby of Wood Quay or - presumably - any of the other locations listed in the notice quoted above if you want to see it in the flesh.


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    #12
    justo
    Registered Users Posts: 242 ✭✭justo


    This plan is one of the best pieces of work underway at DCC. You should all be praised for it. I'd love to see the section inbetween the wooden brigde and the causeway in Clontarf finished as that stretch is very dangerous at the moment.

    What would be the expected time for the city part to be completed, provided the objections are minimal by December 18th?


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    #13
    JacksonHeightsOwn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,905 ✭✭✭JacksonHeightsOwn


    i reckon the local authorties should make it their business to extend the cycleways the full length of the cancal istelf,

    id can only imagine that it would be a great tourist attraction, imagine cycling from dublin to athlone, along the cancal, now that`d be scenic :D


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    #14
    Bunnyhopper
    Registered Users Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Bunnyhopper


    If this succeeds it'd be good to see something similar done with the Royal Canal. It could connect into the other route near Ossory Road, and maybe have a link into the Park around Ashtown. At present some sections are ok, others (Castleknock-Clonsilla) are dangerous. It could provide a nice route out as far as Maynooth at least.


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    #15
    bealbocht
    Registered Users Posts: 371 ✭✭bealbocht


    Thanks for posting this. Have not seen the maps, so may be nothing but ..

    2. The construction of 405 metres of cycleway from Grand Canal Street Lower to Pearse Street.

    9. Creation of 2 cul de sacs on Grand Canal Quay at Railway Bridge.


    Bit unclear as to the two above points ??
    Is this a "motorist" cul de sac, or are you making the street impassable to everyone. How is Lower Grand Canal St, connected to Pearse St ??

    If the cycle lane did not go down Grand Canal quay, it would be pretty stupid.

    Wont miss the cobbles myself (but suspect some will),
    Otherwise, the sooner its done the better.


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    #16
    mmclo
    Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭mmclo


    Bunnyhopper wrote: »
    If this succeeds it'd be good to see something similar done with the Royal Canal. It could connect into the other route near Ossory Road, and maybe have a link into the Park around Ashtown. At present some sections are ok, others (Castleknock-Clonsilla) are dangerous. It could provide a nice route out as far as Maynooth at least.

    +1, of course most of the work is for Fingal, DCC will say their bit is done although I think private sector did a lot of it around Ashtown. Bit of joined up thinking needed and most of this is national DoT money??


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    #17
    Sean02
    Registered Users Posts: 337 ✭✭Sean02


    All very good Ciaran and thanks for your interest for informing the forum. I worries me when you see Phase v111 planning. and Adamstown stretch costing €8 million or whatever. The Dublin City plan about how much Ciaran my guess €40 million??. The City plan is a great pipedream. Why can we not replicate the Ashtown stretch which due to private involvment probaly was passed at Phase 2 and completed at a fraction of cost in about 3months if I remember. Can anyone find out the cost of the Clonsila to Porterstown section some 6 years ago. It was probaly done on the old C E scheme. This is what leisure, commuter and tourist cyclists want and it's environmentaly friendly.


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    #18
    Trojan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,402 ✭✭✭✭Trojan


    Some photos from Royal Canal route as-is (or as-was Sept 08). Wasn't bad, though the bridges in town were difficult during morning rush hour traffic.

    🎙️ The Recognized Authority Podcast



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    #19
    mmclo
    Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭mmclo


    Trojan wrote: »
    Some photos from Royal Canal route as-is (or as-was Sept 08). Wasn't bad, though the bridges in town were difficult during morning rush hour traffic.

    Of course the Ashtown to Castleknock part is in bits after a bit of rain...like at the moment.


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    #20
    petethedrummer
    Registered Users Posts: 7,604 ✭✭✭petethedrummer


    Trojan wrote: »
    Some photos from Royal Canal route as-is (or as-was Sept 08). Wasn't bad, though the bridges in town were difficult during morning rush hour traffic.
    Great stuff. I've been meaning to cycle those routes for months now. As soon as this project is over I'll be heading down them.


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    #21
    colm ó maonaigh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40 ✭colm ó maonaigh


    Thanks for the pics Alastair. Can I ask you if the canal path was navigable by bike all along that route? I did about 70miles of the Nante-Brest canal without leaving the path this Summer and it was a joy to cycle. I cringed looking at the state of that canal path, in your pics, in some places.


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    #22
    Trojan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,402 ✭✭✭✭Trojan


    colm ó maonaigh wrote: »
    Thanks for the pics Alastair. Can I ask you if the canal path was navigable by bike all along that route? I did about 70miles of the Nante-Brest canal without leaving the path this Summer and it was a joy to cycle. I cringed looking at the state of that canal path, in your pics, in some places.

    It wasn't too bad. Wider tyres would have helped in a couple of places - I was on 25s I think. The main spot that caused trouble was this roadblock in the Deep Sink section. Otherwise it was fine - fatty MTB tyres would have made it a bit quicker and more comfortable.

    🎙️ The Recognized Authority Podcast



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    #23
    Sean02
    Registered Users Posts: 337 ✭✭Sean02


    Well done Pete I admire your optimism. However this plan while welcomed I don't think will see any improvement in the canal towpaths on the Royal and none after Adamstown on the Grand. Hopefully when the Merc users see the benifet of this section and the increase in cycling commuters along the route they will be motivated or forced to put in place similar cycle / pedrestrian path to at least Kilcock. Correct me if I'm wrong. Hi Ciaran any possibility of a comment on my previous reply.


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    #24
    mmclo
    Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭mmclo


    hope the new bridge for the Dunboyne rail line will be cycle friendly...presume it will be. Have a pic i will try and post


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    #25
    petethedrummer
    Registered Users Posts: 7,604 ✭✭✭petethedrummer


    Sean02 wrote: »
    Well done Pete I admire your optimism. However this plan while welcomed I don't think will see any improvement in the canal towpaths on the Royal and none after Adamstown on the Grand.
    Bit of confusion. I meant I'll be heading down it when I'm finished my own project here in work (programming a glorified dishwasher), which has me in at work 10pm on a thursday night. :mad:


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    #26
    wotdef
    Closed Accounts Posts: 156 ✭✭wotdef


    A word of caution. Just be careful on the setion from Castleknock station to the Porterstown bridge it is strewn with smooth rock and nice big roots. They are nice and shiney this time of year.


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    #27
    Sean02
    Registered Users Posts: 337 ✭✭Sean02


    mmco thanks for pic of Bridge look great. was always apprensive going under the old fresh air bridge particuarly in bad weather. But more exciting than the easier option of the high track. Pete I was as much worried as confused I would not like to antisipate big results in the short term with this project. Yes that stretch mid castleknock to porterstown is challenging and can be very dangereous. I've had to call fire brigade to rescue cyclists from canal on two occasions. Both were lucky not to have drowned or have serious injuries Guess what the response was from Waterways Ireland, OPW, John Gormley, Noel Dempsey??


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    #28
    Bunnyhopper
    Registered Users Posts: 1,414 ✭✭✭Bunnyhopper


    Sean02 wrote: »
    Guess what the response was from Waterways Ireland, OPW, John Gormley, Noel Dempsey??

    Was it?:
    ...


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    #29
    petethedrummer
    Registered Users Posts: 7,604 ✭✭✭petethedrummer


    Sean02 wrote: »
    I've had to call fire brigade to rescue cyclists from canal on two occasions. Both were lucky not to have drowned or have serious injuries
    I wonder is it easy to unclip under water.


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    #30
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,072 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    Back on topic...
    DCC_Cycling (Ciaran) wrote: »
    The first stage of a proposed Dublin Canals Cycle Route is currently at public consultation stage. Documents can be viewed and comments made by following the link below and entering planning reference 4148/09.

    http://www.dublincity.ie/Planning/PlanningSearch/Pages/PlanningSearch.aspx

    Ciarán

    A few comments and questions:

    >> Pages 1 to 21: Portobello to Grand Canal Street: This all seems ok, but a lot depends on junctions and other elements such as the small bit of boardwalk which are currently noted as to be designed at a later stage.

    >> On junctions in general: How are the Toucan crossing due to work? Will they have separated areas for cyclists and peds? Or will the green sequence for peds and cyclists allow for entry or exit off the main route onto different roads?

    >> Pages 21 and 22: Grand Canal Street to Grand Canal Quay... it gets very disjointed here...

    >> The junction with Pearse Street is not marked as to be designed later as others are. Is this an error?

    >> On Grand Canal Quay, south of and at Pearse Street: Why does the two-way cycle track end on Grand Canal Street and split into two “advisory” tracks and then end at the junction rather than use of a Toucan crossing directly across Pearse Street?

    >> North of Pearse Street: It should be noted the Dublin Docklands Authority area has some of the poorest, disconnected cycle lanes in Dublin. Besides the lanes along the river quays, the Docklands is also highly notable as a newly designed area with no cycling provision (maybe better off given what was done along the quays).

    >> Why are no lane markings being used across the paved areas north of Pearse Street? It’s not clear what happens on the map, but it is noted that no lane markings will be used the other documents, and some kind of signage will be agreed with the DDDA.

    >> Is it because Grand Canal Quay / Square is not designed as a cycle route and there’s an unwillingness to redesign it? It’s a wide open space, but it gets quite tight because of the way green areas are designed at one side of the square.

    >> Pages 23 and 24: North of Grand Canal Square: How do or how can parking space (or loading bays or whatever) and only 1.25 “advisory” cycle lanes fit into the design of a project which is supposed to be world class?

    >> On the Samuel Beckett Bridge: This can’t really be blamed on the designers of this cycle route, but two-way cycle lanes on both sides only at 2.5m? And marking only between cyclists and pedestrians? This is just 1.25m each way on cycle track which is part of a river crossing and a premium cycle route?

    >> From the maps online it’s very hard to make out what exactly is happing on both sides of the bridge with cyclists, other traffic and pedestrians.

    >> Page 26: North of the Samuel Beckett Bridge: Says the cycle tracks is along the proposed linear park... is there a foothpath beside this? If not, you can’t really blame pedestrians for walking on the cycle track.

    >> Page 28 etc: Same with the section of the off-street north of Sheriff Street Will there be a path for people walking etc? [It says in the other documents the bridge will be ped and cycling bridge, but it’s not clear from the drawings]


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    #31
    Doctor Bob
    Registered Users Posts: 1,141 ✭✭✭Doctor Bob


    You're bang on about the junctions, monument. The bits in between are pretty easy- this thing will sink or swim based on how the junctions are designed.

    One other point not discussed yet is the fact that the section across the square in the Docklands looks to be a shared space, the type which presumably would not meet with the approval of the NCBI (re the article posted a while ago).


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