Animals are here for us to kill, eat..

Greyfox · 04-07-2019 1:37pm

dodderangler wrote: »

Show me one vegan who is not willing to kick up an argument with me because I hunt. I’ll gladly wait all day to meet one that won’t.

Most meat eaters also don't agree with hunting.

EICVD · 04-07-2019 1:39pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Shame for me so since I fish a lot and eat them - and I capture and keep wild rabbit before offing them and eating them.

Some of it is probably illegal as I have never looked into licensing laws on all of it Sea fishing I think is fine. River fishing I am probably violating some licensing laws. Rabbit - I genuinely do not know what the deal is there.

I’m not gonna call you scum of the earth or anything for hunting your own food (them vegans & vegetarians probably would). You have your reasons & that’s fair, just I personally don’t agree with hunting of any sort in this day age.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 04-07-2019 1:41pm

Greyfox wrote: »

Most meat eaters also don't agree with hunting.

For sport probably but presumably not for food?

Thelonious Monk · 04-07-2019 1:44pm

Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »

Perhaps you would care to point out where in that post I denied climate change?

Another case of seeing what you know rather than knowing what you see?

Nope, skimmed over your post, sorry

[Deleted User] · 04-07-2019 1:45pm

EICVD wrote: »

I’m not gonna call you scum of the earth or anything for hunting your own food (them vegans & vegetarians probably would). You have your reasons & that’s fair, just I personally don’t agree with hunting of any sort in this day age.

Suppose it depends on what moral arguments one selects. For example the most arguments I hear against eating meat are actually arguments against how we treat the animals while producing meat. It seems there are little or no arguments against meat eating itself - but many arguments against how we treat animals while we farm it.

Hunting your own meat where possible by passes many of those arguments. Animals who have lived a life in the wild do not qualify for the concerns over farming and captivity.

Many people against hunting also seem to be fine with fishing - which has always been curious to me. Fishing _is_ a form of hunting. For some reason - I guess something to do with the fish not being visible while you hunt it maybe - or perhaps just because the word "fishing" exists - people see it as separate and something else.

Upstream · 04-07-2019 2:03pm

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Our modern industrial ways of consuming animals producing food has, for some, become completely devoid of compassion and separated from our natural origins.

Some people, for ethical and completely understandable reasons make a decision not to support these industries.

Other people make choices along the same lines, but choose to source their animal products along more ethical lines, or just less of them.

Others continue as they are.

All valid, all debatable. But completely understandable, surely.

I think the heart of the issue is the increasing industrialisation of not just animal production, but of how we produce food generally. This has been going on since the 1940's, and people are more and more disconnected from where their food comes from.

Where possible such practices should be replaced with Regenerative Agriculture - practices that heal the environment instead of harming it.
Plants can be grown regeneratively, in a way that

increases biodiversity
improves soil health
improves water quality
increases soil carbon storage
and generally heals the environment

The point some people in this debate miss is the fact that can animals can be farmed regeneratively too, and can have as much of a positive an impact on the environment as plants, with even greater synergies when the two are combined.

The regenerative food movement is starting to gather momentum, and it has the potential to greatly improve people's health and the health of the planet.

If all agriculture was regenerative we would have the potential to sequester all the CO2 emitted since the start of the industrial revolution, back into the soils in about 10 years, so it's where we should be focusing our energies on.

PainInTheArse · 04-07-2019 2:05pm

randd1 wrote: »

You could make the same arguments about plants really, they're born, they grow, they consume, they reproduce, they exhaust. And then in the prime of their life are cut down for food.

The only difference between meat eaters and vegans really is that with meat eaters, their living organism for choice of feeding has a chance to run away or fight back.

There is no comparison to the life of an animal and the life of a plant. If you think chopping a carrot in half is the same as slicing the throat of an animal, you would really what to check your moral’s there bud.

Greyfox · 04-07-2019 2:07pm

Janessa Uptight Asteroid wrote: »

For sport probably but presumably not for food?

Yeah hunting legally for food is fine

Uncharted · 04-07-2019 2:29pm

PainInTheArse wrote: »

So, you don’t acknowledge the sentience of the animals you eat but you do acknowledge the sentience of their wild counterpart. But hey, that’s your opinion dude.

To me animals are sentient regardless of what way they were brought into this world.

Incorrect,you're choosing to see as you want to see.

I'm staying that the food (meat) I eat is simply that..... food.

Nothing more,nothing less.

I don't consider the pigs,sheep,cows etc emotions or feelings. Never have,never will.

They are food. Not humans ,not equals,not pets.
They are products.

They are food.

dodderangler · 04-07-2019 2:31pm

Greyfox wrote: »

Most meat eaters also don't agree with hunting.

That almost makes them the biggest hypocrites aswell.
I had a lad here in work today saying it’s cruel that I was out hunting yesterday. Says it’s psychotic thing to do. At lunch time he had. Hot chicken sandwich. I just laughed.

dodderangler · 04-07-2019 2:34pm

Janessa Uptight Asteroid wrote: »

For sport probably but presumably not for food?

What classes it as sport though. I hunt animals that I don’t eat. Foxes and crows etc are a menace. They need to be culled. The more we move into their lands the more they produce in smaller areas causing more damage to local wildlife. Some people say they were never as much of a menace before but yes that was when there wasn’t as much people either. I hunt land now that is shrinking all the time because of houses being built more and more. I could’ve shot four foxes last

Greyfox · 04-07-2019 2:42pm

Deleted User wrote: »

For example the most arguments I hear against eating meat are actually arguments against how we treat the animals while producing meat. It seems there are little or no arguments against meat eating itself - but many arguments against how we treat animals while we farm it.

As a meat eater I think a lot of what Vegans/Vegitarians say is fair. Most meat eaters don't care enough about where there meat comes from and ignore realities like how most chickens live and that meat is too cheap and too much of it is produced. We hope there's no suffering for the animals besides the seconds required for the killing but we would rather not think about the subject rather then caring about wheter or not guidelines are been followed. It's easy to assume there's laws in place so there's no animal cruelty but there is also human error that can happen and if it happens in a abbotoir it will cause suffering. I've considered giving up meat or cutting down dramatically but to be honest giving up meat would be as difficult as giving up alcohol so its not going to happen with me

dickangel · 04-07-2019 2:43pm

The defence of eating meat due to it being natural is fine. It falls apart though when the meat you're getting is from industrial and unsustainable methods that sacrifice animal welfare for profits which is unnatural in itself.

I've absolutely no issue with anyone eating meat that they have hunted or sourced locally. Don't get the hate towards veganism, vegans can be annoying, but the practice is welcome.

I also wonder how many people would have the stomach to kill an animal and gut it and prepare it for their dinner? Part of the success of industrial meat production is hiding the reality from the consumer.

gozunda · 04-07-2019 2:45pm

dodderangler wrote: »

What classes it as sport though. I hunt animals that I don’t eat. Foxes and crows etc are a menace. They need to be culled. The more we move into their lands the more they produce in smaller areas causing more damage to local wildlife. Some people say they were never as much of a menace before but yes that was when there wasn’t as much people either. I hunt land now that is shrinking all the time because of houses being built more and more. I could’ve shot four foxes last

Bizarrely there is a faction who read the word 'sport' as 'fun' - as in rolling around the place in fits pissing yourself laughing or whatever

Trying to point that sport also has the meaning of a physical activity participated by individuals outdoors is probably pointless and you may as well be banging your head off a brick wall as attempting to get some to understand that tbh

The same eejits who claim keeping animals is 'slavery', that meat is 'murder' and eating it is akin to nuclear waste. Plenty of examples of all this ****e in this thread already tbh.

I'm away to prosecute the local fox for eating murdering some rabbits here abouts. 10-15 years incarceration should do it I think.

Serve the cruel feker rightly...

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 04-07-2019 2:53pm

dodderangler wrote: »

What classes it as sport though. I hunt animals that I don’t eat. Foxes and crows etc are a menace. They need to be culled. The more we move into their lands the more they produce in smaller areas causing more damage to local wildlife. Some people say they were never as much of a menace before but yes that was when there wasn’t as much people either. I hunt land now that is shrinking all the time because of houses being built more and more. I could’ve shot four foxes last

Depends how much you're enjoying it I suppose

Interesting question though, definitely not a black and white issue especially for farmers. Not sure if there's some term that'd cover that functional but not edible middle ground.

PainInTheArse · 04-07-2019 2:53pm

seasidedub wrote: »

Personally I love how vegans stand for humanity and the planet. Refusing to eat a local grass fed free roaming cow/sheep etc, but blissfully chowing down on a quinoa burger made with grains grown in South America and creating a massive carbon footprint as well as forcing clearances of indigenous lands and rai forest, ditto avocados, or chomping on soy based products possibly grown with Monsanto franken-seeds. And not to mention the carbon footprint of their trips to yoga places in India, Bali etc.....

Do Lough Derg on your knees, porridge, few local rashers, bit of turnip and few spuds, pint of Guinness for the barley and they'd be better off, so would the planet

I love how some people think that all vegans do is sit around drinking soya lattes, stuffing their face with quinoa and avocados while discussing how many air miles they can work up this week. I’m lucky to get a week down to a mobile home in Ballyheigue. As like most people them bills don’t pay themselves.

And the majority of vegan food is local vegetables, just there at the weekend I had a nice bit of cabbage, potatoes and a few vegan sausages covered in gravy. Yum yum

As for Amazon deforestation, you should look into it , most of it is caused by animal agriculture.

Uncharted · 04-07-2019 2:55pm

PainInTheArse wrote: »

just there at the weekend I had a nice bit of cabbage, potatoes and a few PORK sausages covered in gravy. Yum yum

FYP

gozunda · 04-07-2019 2:58pm

PainInTheArse wrote: »

I love how some people think that all vegans do is sit around drinking soya lattes, stuffing their face with quinoa and avocados while discussing how many air miles they can work up this week. I’m lucky to get a week down to a mobile home in Ballyheigue. As like most people them bills don’t pay themselves.

And the majority of vegan food is local vegetables, just there at the weekend I had a nice bit of cabbage, potatoes and a few vegan sausages covered in gravy. Yum yum

As for Amazon deforestation, you should look into it , most of it is caused by animal agriculture.

Wrong. And a much repeated piece of rubbish.

Greyfox · 04-07-2019 2:58pm

dodderangler wrote: »

What classes it as sport though. I hunt animals that I don’t eat. Foxes and crows etc are a menace. They need to be culled.

If your not killing for food your killing for sport/fun, this is completely wrong just like bullfighting but its also a different subject. Foxes don't know that there been a menace, there just doing what there natural instincts tell them to do. it's not there fault that so many humans live near them

PainInTheArse · 04-07-2019 3:09pm

gozunda wrote: »

Wrong. And a much repeated piece of rubbish.

I can only go on what I read on the net. If you google, main cause of amazon deforestation, select images , every single pie chart that pops up shows that 60 -80 % of deforestation is caused by cattle ranching. Are they all wrong ??

Thelonious Monk · 04-07-2019 3:11pm

PainInTheArse wrote: »

I can only go on what I read on the net. If you google, main cause of amazon deforestation, select images , every single pie chart that pops up shows that 60 -80 % of deforestation is caused by cattle ranching. Are they all wrong ??

Isn't that what the hullabulloo is about the imports of beef from brazil etc? It will lead to destruction of rainforests.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 04-07-2019 3:40pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Nope, skimmed over your post, sorry

I guessed as much.

Tbh, I reckon most people can work out for themselves the reasons for shooting the messenger instead of the message.

gozunda · 04-07-2019 3:45pm

PainInTheArse wrote: »

I can only go on what I read on the net. If you google, main cause of amazon deforestation, select images , every single pie chart that pops up shows that 60 -80 % of deforestation is caused by cattle ranching. Are they all wrong ??

re animal agriculture and deforestation

Huge areas of rain forest are being cut down and used to grow crops - mainly soybean.

Globally the primary use of soy bean is the manufacture of oil - soy oil is the most valuable and number one product from this crop. What is left over after the oil is extracted is a by product called soy meal. It is this a waste or by-product which is sold as animal feed- that is poultry, pet and all kind of ruminants including sheep, cattle, horse etc.

That said Brazil currently sells most of its soybean crop to China. The US is the single biggest producer of soy meal in the world. That soymeal is used to feed lot fed cattle in the US - but as they are largely self sufficient - the soy meal being fed is not coming from South America and doesnt involve deforestation.

I have also seen incorrect information peddled that nearly all soya grown is fed to animals etc. Again incorrect as that figure relates to the volume of soya by-product left over after oil extraction.

Here's the food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations on animal feeds

New FAO Study indicates that livestock primarily consume foods not fit for human consumption and meat production requires less cereals than generally reported

http://www.fao.org/ag/againfo/home/en/news_archive/2017_More_Fuel_for_the_Food_Feed.html

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/mar/27/us-china-soy-tariff-war-could-destroy-13-million-hectares-of-amazon-rainforest

https://news.mongabay.com/2019/04/brazil-soy-trade-linked-to-widespread-deforestation-carbon-emissions/

archer22 · 04-07-2019 4:19pm

Janessa Uptight Asteroid wrote: »

So you've met the ones who are mental enough to shout at people in public, which you can surely see is going to be a small minority. If they weren't vegan they'd still be mental and still be shouting at someone over something like.

I can't understand how that guy got shouted at "while out hunting".

Hunting is only supposed to be on private land and you are hardly going to find Vegans behind every bush there :rolleyes:.

I suspect it wasn't Vegans that were shouting at him :pac:

dodderangler · 04-07-2019 6:23pm

Greyfox wrote: »

If your not killing for food your killing for sport/fun, this is completely wrong just like bullfighting but its also a different subject. Foxes don't know that there been a menace, there just doing what there natural instincts tell them to do. it's not there fault that so many humans live near them

That’s your opinion though. You clearly know nothing of wildlife and the damage certain animals have on other animals.
So comparing something like bullfighting to amuse a crowd against something one person does to protect other animals is just down right stupid.
So well done on that one.

dodderangler · 04-07-2019 6:27pm

Greyfox wrote: »

As a meat eater I think a lot of what Vegans/Vegitarians say is fair. Most meat eaters don't care enough about where there meat comes from and ignore realities like how most chickens live and that meat is too cheap and too much of it is produced. We hope there's no suffering for the animals besides the seconds required for the killing but we would rather not think about the subject rather then caring about wheter or not guidelines are been followed. It's easy to assume there's laws in place so there's no animal cruelty but there is also human error that can happen and if it happens in a abbotoir it will cause suffering. I've considered giving up meat or cutting down dramatically but to be honest giving up meat would be as difficult as giving up alcohol so its not going to happen with me

Same can be said about the aftermath of planting crops for vegetarians to eat. Example is the amount of birds killed from pesticides and in turn has an effect on the animals that prey upon the birds. Hawks etc die from poisoning from eating birds that eat insects riddled with pesticide.
Then the control that is done to stop pigeons and corvids from eating vast amounts of grain etc for growing food hat is consumed by vegans and vegetarians.
So in other words vegans and vegetarians have no clue either.

PainInTheArse · 04-07-2019 7:48pm

Uncharted wrote: »

Incorrect,you're choosing to see as you want to see.

I'm staying that the food (meat) I eat is simply that..... food.

Nothing more,nothing less.

I don't consider the pigs,sheep,cows etc emotions or feelings. Never have,never will.

They are food. Not humans ,not equals,not pets.
They are products.

They are food.

Yeah I see where your coming from. When you walk down the meat aisle you don't see dead animals. You just see breakfast ,lunch and dinner.

dodderangler · 04-07-2019 8:00pm

PainInTheArse wrote: »

Yeah I see where your coming from. When you walk down the meat aisle you don't see dead animals. You just see breakfast ,lunch and dinner.

You should see the Philippines. You literally see the dead animals there in the market. And you just pick what oart you want. I still see breakfast lunch and dinner.
I’m out hunting and I still see a cow as dinner.

ToddyDoody · 04-07-2019 9:05pm

What was Jesus's view of veganism, does anyone know?

[Deleted User] · 04-07-2019 9:08pm

ToddyDoody wrote: »

What was Jesus's view of veganism, does anyone know?

That would be an ecumenical matter

Animals are here for us to kill, eat..

Comments