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The Frederick St protest and reaction

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  • Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Why did the cops allow those other fools dress in black with black balaclavas and driving that battered oul untaxed van?
    Because there's nothing illegal about either of those things. It's a UK reg, so "untaxed" is irrelevant. The cops can't "stop" a private individual from doing these things without a legal basis.
    Why didnt the cops have a senior unmasked officer there to take charge and talk to protesters/journalists.
    Because the Gardai weren't there to carry out an eviction. There were there to maintain public order.

    Seems odd that there would be an officer there specifically for PR purposes; would such an officer be present at any other ad-hoc protest?
    Image is important and this is a win for the protesters.
    I think it's 50:50 if I'm being honest. Since the initial "OMG TERRORIST GARDAI ARE THROWING PEOPLE OUT ON THE STREETS" hysteria has been proven to be lies, nobody really seems to be on the fence. You're either outraged at the eviction, or outraged at the occupiers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,228 ✭✭✭BBFAN


    john4321 wrote: »
    If you look up irony in the future you will find this quote.

    An irony that seems lost on you. Boards famous for slating non-contributory people. What do they think that investors with derelict buildings all around the city contribute to society?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,915 ✭✭✭cursai


    BBFAN wrote: »
    An irony that seems lost on you. Boards famous for slating non-contributory people. What do they think that investors with derelict buildings all around the city contribute to society?

    business, tax, jobs?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,813 ✭✭✭Noveight


    BBFAN wrote: »
    Boards famous for slating non-contributory people.

    What's wrong with that either?

    If you're not elderly, seriously ill or genuinely disabled then you should be able to get off your cozy arse and have a go at pulling your weight.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,229 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    ****


    Separate from the details of whether the protestors should have been there or not are we really a people who celebrate masked heavies using force against people protesting against a lack of available properties for people to live in?

    We have a serious problem with housing and nothing is being done to solve it these types of protests are an inevitable symptom of this situation, let's hope we don't degenerate into violent protest before something is done about this.

    Glazers Out!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 986 ✭✭✭Prominent_Dawg


    Steal - "taking (another person's property) without permission or legal right".. "actives" sounds so much better!


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,028 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    nullzero wrote: »
    Separate from the details of whether the protestors should have been there or not are we really a people who celebrate masked heavies using force against people protesting against a lack of available properties for people to live in?

    How and why should it be separate from the details of whether the protesters should have been there or not?

    If they weren't there, they wouldn't have been removed!!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,229 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    ****


    blanch152 wrote: »
    How and why should it be separate from the details of whether the protesters should have been there or not?

    If they weren't there, they wouldn't have been removed!!!!

    If my granny had balls she'd be my grandad.

    Are you satisfied that the housing issue in Ireland is being dealt with properly?

    Glazers Out!



  • Registered Users Posts: 620 ✭✭✭aidoh


    I get why people are critical over the protesters and I also understand why the cops may have needed to wear balaclavas in this case.

    That being said, the amount of people absolutely creaming themselves over the thought of cops beating the shít out of crusties is bizarre.

    Not one page in 25 of this thread passed without someone fantasising about cops getting tough on people. Weird.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,887 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    blanch152 wrote: »
    How and why should it be separate from the details of whether the protesters should have been there or not?

    If they weren't there, they wouldn't have been removed!!!!


    The way in which it was done raises no qualms at all?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,028 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Odhinn wrote: »
    The way in which it was done raises no qualms at all?

    I think this RTE article explains it well:

    https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2018/0912/993266-dublin-protest/

    "A spokesman for the Garda Representative Association said "the ski mask is sometimes worn by the Public Order Unit for their own safety."

    GRA Director of Communications John O'Keeffe said "the hood is flame retardant and in a time when horrific acid attacks are becoming more prevalent, it also offers some further protection from sprays or gases, or any other noxious substance."

    He added that "the idea that our members were somehow part of the problem, is errant nonsense.""


    For once, I have to agree with the GRA.

    I wouldn't have been surprised if some of the protestors and their supporters had engaged in that kind of violence against the Gardai.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,813 ✭✭✭Noveight


    aidoh wrote: »
    That being said, the amount of people absolutely creaming themselves over the thought of cops beating the shít out of crusties is bizarre.

    Not one page in 25 of this thread passed without someone fantasising about cops getting tough on people. Weird.

    A push back against the namby-pamby, something-for-nothing sense of entitlement endorsed by Paul Murphy et al.

    Not entirely surprising, tbf.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,128 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    Why are people so upset about Gardai wearing balaclavas? Their badge numbers are clearly visible so if you want to report potential misconduct you can still do it. I don't see a good reason for anyone involved in this debacle to be able to identify a garda personally.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,887 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    blanch152 wrote: »
    I think this RTE article explains it well:

    https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2018/0912/993266-dublin-protest/

    "A spokesman for the Garda Representative Association said "the ski mask is sometimes worn by the Public Order Unit for their own safety."

    GRA Director of Communications John O'Keeffe said "the hood is flame retardant and in a time when horrific acid attacks are becoming more prevalent, it also offers some further protection from sprays or gases, or any other noxious substance."

    He added that "the idea that our members were somehow part of the problem, is errant nonsense.""


    For once, I have to agree with the GRA.

    I wouldn't have been surprised if some of the protestors and their supporters had engaged in that kind of violence against the Gardai.




    But the Gardai in balaclavas did not eject the protesters - they stood their with batons drawn (afaik) as a group of heavies in balaclavas privately employed did so. Nothing about that strikes you as odd? worrying?


  • Registered Users Posts: 986 ✭✭✭Prominent_Dawg


    nullzero wrote: »
    Separate from the details of whether the protestors should have been there or not are we really a people who celebrate masked heavies using force against people protesting against a lack of available properties for people to live in?

    The protestors were there in support of an illegal activity.. It's refreshing to see a no tolerance approach if anything within this country!


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    aidoh wrote: »
    I get why people are critical over the protesters and I also understand why the cops may have needed to wear balaclavas in this case.

    That being said, the amount of people absolutely creaming themselves over the thought of cops beating the shít out of crusties is bizarre.

    Not one page in 25 of this thread passed without someone fantasising about cops getting tough on people. Weird.

    Frustrated fantasists


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    MadYaker wrote: »
    Why are people so upset about Gardai wearing balaclavas? Their badge numbers are clearly visible so if you want to report potential misconduct you can still do it. I don't see a good reason for anyone involved in this debacle to be able to identify a garda personally.

    On this island I can imagine a fairly significant number of reasons people would prefer that our law enforcement agency avoid looking like the 'rent-a-thug' mob, with an a UK reg, violently throwing people into the street. Additional reasons that is, above and beyond the reasons that AGS themselves would highlight why this is a bad idea when talking about the importance of community policing.

    IF you can't understand that then I suggest you pick up a history book.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    There is zero legislation that states you have to identify yourself to a reporter or a rabble. I’m sure they were introduced to the Gardaefore they went to the house, otherwise the Gardaould be evicting one rabble and letting another rabble in, which would be pointless.

    You might need to reread what I posted instead of focusing on one singular point.

    I asked if it was legal to drive a vehicle without a front registration plate, apparently the rear one was a uk one (I'm open to correction on this btw) while working either for, or in accordance/conjunction with the states police force?

    My guess wold be no, but it's only a little guess mind.

    Should we be expecting more masked men in unmarked vans, partially displaying registration plates in future police operations?

    I need to know if I should be feeling worried or reassured here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    aidoh wrote: »
    I get why people are critical over the protesters and I also understand why the cops may have needed to wear balaclavas in this case.

    That being said, the amount of people absolutely creaming themselves over the thought of cops beating the shít out of crusties is bizarre.

    Not one page in 25 of this thread passed without someone fantasising about cops getting tough on people. Weird.

    Well you can't blame People getting aroused at the thought of a truncheon bouncing off Rich Boy Barrett head.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    Amirani wrote: »
    How was it violent exactly? Are you just making things up?

    Gardaí have said that the eviction was peaceful: https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/gardai-say-removal-of-protesters-by-men-in-balaclavas-was-a-peaceful-eviction-37308796.html

    A couple of activists went to hospital due to injuries while being arrested by Gardaí, this was not part of the eviction, but due to public order offences outside the property.

    There are allegations of violence on part of the unidentified, masked enforcers who physically removed protesters from the property. There are accounts and indeed images of the resulting violence widely available.

    That the AGS defended their involvement is utterly immaterial. Their reputation for honestly reporting their actions speaks (loudly) for itself.


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  • Posts: 13,712 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    MadYaker wrote: »
    Why are people so upset about Gardai wearing balaclavas? Their badge numbers are clearly visible so if you want to report potential misconduct you can still do it. I don't see a good reason for anyone involved in this debacle to be able to identify a garda personally.
    To keep them honest, frankly.

    It's not much use, in a skirmish, or where observers are simply watching from some distance, to say "ah did ye not see the badge number?" Surely anybody can understand that., so I suspect some posters here may be deliberately 'confused' as to why a police force exercising very significant privileges should not cover their faces when potentially using force.


  • Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    That the AGS defended their involvement is utterly immaterial. Their reputation for honestly reporting their actions speaks (loudly) for itself.

    Only to certain types.

    Types who already have their opinions anyway and are only interested in the parts of stories that further their agendas .


    And frankly, who gives a **** about those whinger types anyway.......


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,325 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    NuMarvel wrote:
    The court order was issued to the occupiers to vacate the premises. Non-compliance with that becomes a matter for the Gardaí or other state officers, not private individuals. I don't see how the Gardaí have the right or authority to farm that role out to private, unidentified, individuals and in the process facilitate breaches of the road traffic act and private security services act.

    wearing balaclavas when undertaking policing duties, possibly whilst using force (but under any circumstances) impedes accountability (eg witness accounts are severely limited); there's also a psychological dimension in that people who believe they have an enhanced degree of anonymity tend to act-out in a more aggressive and confrontational manner than might ordinarily be expected (that's the whole basis for the nonsense spewed by keyboard warriors, after all).

    washiskin wrote:
    Genuine question, have this group occupied any boarded up local authority flats or houses anywhere? Is it just private dwellings they are targeting?

    Clearly not. They're not interested in boarded up council houses in suburban areas such as Darndale when they can target private dwellings right in the city centre.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,028 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Odhinn wrote: »
    But the Gardai in balaclavas did not eject the protesters - they stood their with batons drawn (afaik) as a group of heavies in balaclavas privately employed did so. Nothing about that strikes you as odd? worrying?


    https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2018/0912/993266-dublin-protest/


    "The protesters left the house peacefully but five other people, four men and a woman, were arrested for public order offences."

    What did the so-called "heavies" do wrong if it is generally accepted that the protesters left the house peacefully?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    It is indeed,and usually results in a somewhat more robust response than we provide....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vM1c_58e6jk

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUHzFDyfrAg

    You post these videos approving of the actions contained therein?

    You assert that, on the continent, such protests 'usually result' in more authoritarian responses than on this island. Beyond these two anecdotes have you any evidence to demonstrate this?


  • Registered Users Posts: 605 ✭✭✭Pete Moss


    Protesters now having a sit down at the junction of O'Connell Street, Parnell Street and Parnell Square.

    No buses or Luas trams can get by, or any other traffic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,028 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    To keep them honest, frankly.

    It's not much use, in a skirmish, or where observers are simply watching from some distance, to say "ah did ye not see the badge number?" Surely anybody can understand that., so I suspect some posters here may be deliberately 'confused' as to why a police force exercising very significant privileges should not cover their faces when potentially using force.

    Come off it.

    As their likes did before, the type of protesters involved in this protest want to set up Facebook pages and target the private lives of Gardai in a modern-day version of intimidation and harrassment.

    Like the vast majority of people in this country, I have no time for that type of protester.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,028 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Pete Moss wrote: »
    Protesters now having a sit down at the junction of O'Connell Street, Parnell Street and Parnell Square.

    No buses or Luas trams can get by, or any other traffic.

    Children having a tantrum.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭jobbridge4life


    Hurrache wrote: »
    Do you actually think the taoiseach had any involvement in such mundane day to day operations of the Gardai, I'd be surprised if the commissioner had any involvement.

    The Gardai are in the job of applying and enforcing the law, not PR.

    Of course not.

    Of course as we are now well aware, or ought to be, AGS actions can have consequences well beyond their ranks. If somehow this has escaped your attention, you might want to ask the last two Justice Ministers for their opinion on this.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,887 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    blanch152 wrote: »
    https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2018/0912/993266-dublin-protest/


    "The protesters left the house peacefully but five other people, four men and a woman, were arrested for public order offences."

    What did the so-called "heavies" do wrong if it is generally accepted that the protesters left the house peacefully?


    If the protesters were to be ejected for breach of a court order, why didn't the gardai do it? Instead they (masked) stood around protecting a large group of privately employed masked bruisers doing so, with their batons drawn. It's a bizarre set up, and I have yet to hear an explanation that addresses it.


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